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minsane
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Posted: 8/19/2011 9:52:44 PM

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Hi Guys:

I would like to duplicate the Black Hills 69 grain SMK Blue Box load. What is the Case Overall Length? How many grains of powder do they use?

On others forums they have stated that they us Ramshot Tac and when I pulled loads from their 77 grain and 68 grain rounds the powder looks like TAC. Unfortunately I do not have access to the 69 grain rounds. It appears on both of these loads their case overall length is short at about 2.24.

Thank you for your help.

panzer
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Posted: 8/19/2011 10:50:44 PM
What powders do you have on hand? The BH is good but you can make better. Yell me what you got to work with.
If the man can't do it, the rifle can't either...
minsane
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Posted: 8/19/2011 11:55:45 PM
Thanks for your reply. These are the three rifles that I am attempting to develop duplicate loads for.

Douglas SS 1:8 twist Wylde Chamber
Krieger SS 1:7.7 twist Wylde Chamber
Saber Defense CL 1:7 twist NATO Chamber

At this point I wanted to stick with Ramshot TAC. All three rifles seem to like the the 69 BH Blue Box Load. Grouping a little under MOA@100.

I loaded some rounds and Douglas did not did not seem to like it, did not test on the Saber. It was:

69 Grain SMK
LC 08 trimmed to 1.750
24 grains TAC
2.25 COAL
Fed 205 Primers

With that being said I do have a small amount of H335 left. My meter dispenses the ball powders much more consistently.

Thank you!

panzer
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Posted: 8/20/2011 12:24:32 AM
Hmmm... Not alot of info for tac. I always sex Varget and H4895 for the 69's 25.1 of either. With H4895 that's a stout load, but shot great. Try seem to like to go above 2850 from a 20 in barrel. You might want to start working up from 24.0 seems a little light. 24.5 is a good 77 load, so it should be safe with a 69. I would go until I saw preassure signs and back off .2-.3 and start finding the accurate load from there. I would aspect it to be between 24.5 and 25.0 or there abouts.
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minsane
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Posted: 8/20/2011 12:55:00 AM
I do have a Hornady length gauge that has the screw on brass case. The problem that I am having is that when I use it in my rifles that it measures way over. I end up with rounds that are over 2.60 and closer to 2.75 based on the feel of the bullet in the barrel (that's with the adjustment for 02 or 03) . Is there a better way to use this device or another method to determine when you touch the lands?

Thank you!
panzer
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Posted: 8/20/2011 1:20:47 AM
No need to chase the lands with the 69 sierra, it like the jump. VLD designs and longer heavier rounds you seat beyond mag length it is useful. Generally speaking the sierra line is very length tolerent, but the 80 is too long for mag length and you generally seat those to be .020 or so off the lands. Start messing with VLD's and it is a must have critical tool. i seat my 69's and 77's to mag length and go. If you want to single load some of the longer bullets you will have to start chasing the lands. On older or SAAMI spec .223 chambers, Not wylde or nato or CLE or most Match chambers, you can run into serious issues as they have very short throats and you can jam the bulets into the lands and create some pressure problems. None of your listed chambers are suspect, and they have great throats and good leade angles and can take some good 5.56 pressure loads.

A good tool to have is a headspace comparotor, to see just how long your fired cases really are, so you can size them down to bump the shoulder back about .002-.003. This will extend your case life over full length resizing everytime, but it will only work on one chamber, maybe 2 if your lucky. I got lucky and all my competition rifles measure the same, but they all have the same chamber cut into them by the same guy.

BUT.... since you are loading for 3 different chambers, your going to have to suck up some case life and FL resize to minimum everytime. But don't worry, the difference in accuracy is not enough to notice at all. The sierras seem to shoot good through anything but a rusty pipe.
If the man can't do it, the rifle can't either...
AeroE
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Posted: 8/20/2011 8:43:52 AM
Originally Posted By minsane:
I do have a Hornady length gauge that has the screw on brass case. The problem that I am having is that when I use it in my rifles that it measures way over. I end up with rounds that are over 2.60 and closer to 2.75 based on the feel of the bullet in the barrel (that's with the adjustment for 02 or 03) . Is there a better way to use this device or another method to determine when you touch the lands?

Thank you!


I have yet to find a factory chamber that has a throat short enough that a bullet can be loaded out to touch the lands. There's a chance two of your rifles are also throated for 80 grain bullets.

Besides all that, the AR magazine limits the overall length unless you want to single load.
Remember Braydon Nichols and his Dad, Chinook Pilot CWO Bryan Nichols, KIA in Afghanistan 6 August 2011
syclone170
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Posted: 8/20/2011 9:18:36 AM
[Last Edit: 8/20/2011 9:19:39 AM by syclone170]
From what I have read is that the Black Hills load at least for the red box is 23.6 grs of TAC which is what I will be loading very soon starting out at 23.4 gr with the 68 gr. BTHP....I believe the Blue Box re-manufactured load is the same.
orthodoxwarrior
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Posted: 8/20/2011 4:11:26 PM
I have found out that 24.0 is great for the 69 and 23.4 worked real good for 75 and 77 grainers.It is a strange thing that I got a box of the black hills 69 and it grouped great in all my 1-7 and a couple of bolt guns with 1-9 and wound up duplicating what they load without even knowing it till now.I however seat everything to 2.260.
minsane
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Posted: 8/21/2011 12:12:41 AM
Thank you everyone for their replies. It is greatly appreciated.

Yes it looks like BH is loading 24 grains of TAC. The COAL in both their 5.56 77 grain and their 68 grain are at about 2.24.

Is their a possibility that someone can measure their round of 69 gr. Blue box rounds and post what they obtained for a rough average of COAL in their 69 grain offering? I suspect it is at 2.24 COAL, but I want to make sure.

Thank you!