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jmh-ar-15
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Posted: 6/28/2011 8:35:05 PM
I have a large supply of brass with crimped primers. I almost bought the RCBS press mounted swage tool the other day, but I wanted to learn more about it. I also have my eye on the Dillon Super Swage 600, but I have already spent enough $$$$ on my new reloading habit. So I decided to ask the Hive which is best for reloading on a budget. Thanks for the input.
Firecop203
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Posted: 6/28/2011 8:41:47 PM
Get both.

You can use the Dillon to swage the pockets of all your cases. Later on as you acquire more brass and it WILL get mixed with other brass (range pickups) you can use the RCBS to check to see if it needs swaging or not. There is a little more detailed information here.

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=452
AL50bmgshooter
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Posted: 6/28/2011 9:10:18 PM
[Last Edit: 6/28/2011 9:11:25 PM by AL50bmgshooter]
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mlr052869
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Posted: 6/28/2011 9:30:07 PM
+1..

I am still buying stuff...


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Maryland_Shooter
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Posted: 6/28/2011 9:30:24 PM
Neither. Use the Hornady tool chucked in a drill.
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jmh-ar-15
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Posted: 6/28/2011 10:58:04 PM
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Neither. Use the Hornady tool chucked in a drill.


Many people recommend this, but some say that it could leave deformed or off center primer pockets. I though a swager would be more consistent. Your thoughts?
dryflash3
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Posted: 6/28/2011 11:47:17 PM


Lyman PP reamer with wood handle, Hornady with aluminum handle. The Hornady is the much better tool of the two.

RCBS swager works, but is slower than the Dillon, unless it is adjusted correctly you will bend the adjustment rod. Cases stick on swager unless lubed.

Dillon is $100, fast and won't break parts.

With swagers, you will need to adjust the swager for each headstamp.

With experience once you get the "feel" of the Dillon, no adjustment needed for different headstamps.




I use all three, Hornady reamer chucked in a drill for small batches.

If you are familiar with tools and a drill, it's easy to get good results with reamer in a drill. Some people have trouble with simple things, that's the way it goes.




I use the swaging button from the RCBS swager as a go/no go is PP crimped gauge. This case has a crimped PP.



Swaging button enters fully, crimp removed. Case should hang upside down without falling off, if it falls off too much swage.



Dillon for medium to large batches FTW.

If you are on a budget, get the Hornady. It has a positive stop and can,t over ream. Use slow speed on the drill.
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Wingman26
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Posted: 6/29/2011 12:23:21 AM
[Last Edit: 6/29/2011 12:28:44 AM by Wingman26]
I used an RCBS primer pocket swager for probably 30 years of absolute hell, it was CRAP! A lot of trouble to use, slow as hell, and didn't work worth squat! I wouldn't pay a single penny for a brand new RCBS swager kit.

After hearing a lot of bragging about the Dillon Super Swage, I was finally in Heaven, it was easy to use, and worked very well, expensive but worth every penny!


If you are on a budget, get the Hornady. It has a positive stop and can,t over ream. Use slow speed on the drill.

If you believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. I got one as an experiment, chucked it in a drill, and had to throw out about 100 once fired 5.56 cases that it over reamed to the point that the primers would fall out by gravity.


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thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 6/29/2011 12:43:33 AM
I have and use both. The Dillon is danged near mandatory for any quantity over about ten and I use the RCBS for onsies and twosies. If you have "a large quantity" you will not regret spending the money. I promise.
dryflash3
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Posted: 6/29/2011 12:44:17 AM
Originally Posted By Wingman26:
I used an RCBS primer pocket swager for probably 30 years of absolute hell, it was CRAP! A lot of trouble to use, slow as hell, and didn't work worth squat! I wouldn't pay a single penny for a brand new RCBS swager kit.

After hearing a lot of bragging about the Dillon Super Swage, I was finally in Heaven, it was easy to use, and worked very well, expensive but worth every penny!


If you are on a budget, get the Hornady. It has a positive stop and can,t over ream. Use slow speed on the drill.

If you believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. I got one as an experiment, chucked it in a drill, and had to throw out about 100 once fired 5.56 cases that it over reamed to the point that the primers would fall out by gravity.




It's possible you got a bad one.

Mine and 3 friends who also use the Hornady reamer have no problems.

How much for the bridge?
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Maryland_Shooter
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Posted: 6/29/2011 7:54:58 AM
Originally Posted By jmh-ar-15:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Neither. Use the Hornady tool chucked in a drill.


Many people recommend this, but some say that it could leave deformed or off center primer pockets. I though a swager would be more consistent. Your thoughts?


I think DryFlash covered it - I am about production. When I look at 2-4K cases of brass, an RCBS is out of the question. I'd spring for a Dillon, but sorting brass by headstamp - not gonna happen. Son then I'm left with a Hornady. I took their aluminum handle and turned down one end on a lathe so it fits in a 3/8 drill. You can chuck the tool right in the drill, but that puts my hand too close to the drill for my liking. It not IF your hand slips, but when. Gotta wear a glove too if you have trimmed your brass, as the edge is damned sharp and has cut numerous semi-circles in my hand/fingers.

The RCBS rod bends and I have two of them. You have to adjust them just right. Now they'll replace the bent rod, but really - for me - I'm just gonna bend it again, so why bother?

When reloading - like selecting a rifle, you have to ask yourself what is the intended purpose. I wanna make decent ammo as fast and safe as realistic, so that's how I pick my tools for loading.

Now - were I to chase sub MOA, I'd do things differently. As it stands, the stuff I load would probably be sub MOA, if I was a better shooter.

I load ammo to shoot without trying to achieve a sub moa result; however, if I did pursue that goal, I'd load in smaller batches, take more care and maybe use some of the other tools.

I have 2K of .223 to process all the way through and another 1,500 cases needing to be swaged.
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redmudd
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Posted: 6/29/2011 12:26:23 PM
I haven't used either swager but i'm considering adding one. I use the hornady reamer in a drill and it works good. It can get a little tiresome to the hand after a few hundred cases but I do about 250 at a time and have no problems. I can do 250 in about 30 min. Right now I only load for target shooting and work in smaller batches than most guys on here. If I were loading 1000+ rounds at a time I would definetly buy the dillon.
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Posted: 6/29/2011 12:48:56 PM
In short you will be happier with th Dillon due to is ease of use and speed at which the process can be done. The RCBS in my opinion is clumsy and slow. Yes I own and have used both.
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angus6
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Posted: 6/29/2011 12:49:00 PM
I went from the RCBS unit to the Hornady and like The Hornady better
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Posted: 6/29/2011 5:33:07 PM
I've got both as well. I like the Dillon much better for when I need to do a lot of them. The RCBS is ok for onesy twosy type stuff.

I mounted the Dillon SS to a piece of plywood (8"x12") and use a C-clamp to put it anywhere I want to use it. Works great, and can easily get it out of the way when not needed.
ravinluna
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Posted: 6/29/2011 5:50:24 PM
small batches; machinists deburring tool $5 at harbor freight, large batches I set up and use my RCBS but bending rods is a PITA and it slower than hell ; hopefully someday I'll get a Dillon
darkdan
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Posted: 6/29/2011 6:52:34 PM
Dillon. I don't even adjust it for each headstamp. It really doesn't take much so when I first got mine I set it to min swage. The primer pockets are nice and tight and I haven't had one yet that wouldn't seat a primer. I can easily do 100 cases in 8 to 10 minutes.

I don't like the idea of a reamers because I've seen so many improperly reamed cases where the primer pocket is now loose. Maybe those people are just using the wrong tool.
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Posted: 6/29/2011 9:40:41 PM
I have both and prefer the RCBS. It's too easy to enlarge the primer pockets with the super swage.
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glorifiedG
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Posted: 6/30/2011 12:40:49 AM
Originally Posted By MonkTx:
I have both and prefer the RCBS. It's too easy to enlarge the primer pockets with the super swage.

The only thing I can imagine enlarging with the Dillon is the entry point, nothing more, unless you mal-adjust it and crush/deform the webs
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jmh-ar-15
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Posted: 6/30/2011 2:07:01 AM
Dryflash, thanks for the good and informative info. I think I will go with the Dillon. The Hornady reamer sounds tempting, but I plan on loading primarily once-fired brass and my supply is virtually endless. I get it off department ranges and it is pretty much guarunteed to be all once fired. FYI, it is winchester brass with a crimped PP.
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Posted: 6/30/2011 8:27:41 AM
I just ordered a 600. I've tried a few methods of reaming the crimp with drills or my RCBS case prep center and it's fine for a few cases, but a real pain for a few hundred cases.

With a C&R license, the 600 was about 90 bucks from Grafs.
jmh-ar-15
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Posted: 6/30/2011 2:45:38 PM
Question. Please verify. I have 9mm and .45 brass w/ crimped primers. The dillon will work on straight pistol cases as well as bottlenck, right?
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Posted: 6/30/2011 3:08:46 PM
Because the dillon makes it so easy and range pickups mix all your brass up. Is it bad to swage brass that didnt need it?
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Posted: 6/30/2011 3:14:27 PM
Does the Dillon Super Swage uniform primer pockets too?
miker84
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Posted: 6/30/2011 3:52:49 PM
Originally Posted By jmh-ar-15:
Question. Please verify. I have 9mm and .45 brass w/ crimped primers. The dillon will work on straight pistol cases as well as bottlenck, right?


Dillon says that it will. They list a 45acp adapter, but I'm not sure if it comes with the 600. I'll know in a few days when it arrives.
miker84
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Posted: 6/30/2011 3:59:25 PM
Originally Posted By silentrebellion:
Does the Dillon Super Swage uniform primer pockets too?


I would think that you still need to uniform and clean the pockets since this is only taking care of the crimp. I know guys that never do that for plinking ammo, but do it for match or hunting ammo.
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