What an appropriately timed thread. I just received my Wolff reduced power springs for my 21 in the mail yesterday.

I'm running a lightish charge of 231 under a 198gr H&G 130. Was having a couple of FTF so I'm going to try a couple different springs to see what I like and what works best.

I love the light striker spring.

1911smith are you doing anything to address powder position mentioned in the article you posted other than deep seating and a tight crimp?

Looking forward to your future posts...............

Your lights flickering, not on just yet, but I see good things ahead for you.

Obturate was used in context of stem wave. If charge isn't enough to push bullet from barrel we have a "squibb" round. Squibbs are associated with no charge to light charge loads.

A "stem wave" or "pressure spike" is caused when powder rests below flash hole. It's speculated by companies like Smith & Wesson and Vihta Vouri . Both companies openly speak of phenomon. I talked about it some on first page. Bullets stuck in barrel for any reason is a reflection of your attention span.

Obturate

Have been working a few things this eveningfor this project, some loads, theory and timing. Takes a while to put this stuff together because:

1) There's what you know.

2) What you think you know.

3) What you know presented in such a way, so those who don't know will challenge what you know, so an intellegent conversation can be discussed.

I will share insight. Powders.... Working with IMR SR 4756, Unique, Accurate # 5. Powders I am considering Vihta Vouri 3N38, Accurate #9 and Trail Boss.

eta: time spent is investment into future fun.




Pop question.

Your published data states, a 230 grain bullet using 8.7 grains of Accurate # 5 will move at 927fps.


How many fps does 1 grain of Accurate # 5 represent ?

charge weight to pressure (and velocity) ratio isn't linear. Would likely result in 0fps externally. On the other hand, if you stuffed 20lbs behind a slug, it still wouldn't reach the speed of light

There isn't a lot of Trail Boss information out there for 45acp and even less for 185 grain.

For those of you loading with Lee disks.

3.2 gr use .76

3.4 gr use .82

3.7 gr use .88

4.1 gr use .95

4.4 gr use 1.02

4.6 gr use 1.09

My research shows 5.5 grains being max. Still need to confirm this with Hodgdons. At 4.6 grains case is 75% full. Seating a Suters Choice bullet at 1.165 definitely compacts load.

Will post chronograph results later.


If doing your own research you will find using 185 grain lead bullets, posted charge ranges being used of 3.1 to 3.8 grains BULLSEYE.

Bullseye is definitely the most popular powder used in reduced 45acp, 185 grain, 200 grain loads.

FURTHERMORE..... I have tested IMR 4756 and Unique.

A word about Unique and reduced charges................. SPOOKY. Tried 5 grains with 5 cartridges. I could hear an audible ignition and then what sounded like a build in gas (pressure) before bullet exited barrel. Best way I can describe.

I'm satisfied with ruling Unique out. If you look in Lee's manual you will find the same charge listed for both low and high. I'm guessing there's a reason for this and it's a good one.

IMR4756 is a good powder for reduced charges starting at 600 fps, will update, later.

If anyone else wants to jump in and help with reduced charge experience, please add.

By reduced charges, I'm asking for 45acp data below 700 fps.

I couldn't believe the level of Jacktardedness researching internet threads on various forums. Someone will ask for help with reduced charge data and get lots of 45 acp, 800 fps thru 950 fps responses.

You won't find me posting in other forums. One forum is enough work for me and I'm happy to do it here.

Thanks a bunch for sharing. I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to load your load BIGDAWG, but I would be scared (I don't use the word scared often) to try and go lower with Titegroup.

I know Titegroup isn't poaition sensitive, or not supposed to be. I'm just suggesting there are better alternatives for dipping below 600 fps.

Thanks again.

Trail Boss load data using Suters Choice 185 grain bnlswc. (Similar to Missouri Bullet Company bnlswc)

3.2 grains = 639 fps

3.4 grains = 661 fps

3.7 grains = 692 fps

4.1 grains = 731 fps

4.4 grains = 782 fps

4.6 grains = 804 fps

Barrel used, 5" Colt 1911.

I really didn't expect velocities this high. I'm working up some lower charges with a target velocity of 425fps.

On another note. The last time I ran chronograph with Bullseye charges they ran around 300 fps. Today under clear skies and 15 degrees hotter outside.

At 3.8 grains Bullseye

5 shots averaged 406 fps with ES, 24 and SD, 12.

3.8 grains Bullseye is still the load to beat. Using 11lb recoil spring and 16lb main spring

Blue Dot is a magnim powder, making it a less than desirable choice for reduced power loads. By threads end, intent is to identify good powders for reduced power and how to set up your 1911. Have you identified what main spring your running yet ??

It's kind of hard to produce the results your asking for with a 23lb or heavier main spring. Perceived recoil is bound to feel heavy at that weight.

Real reduced recoil is tuning both 1911 and cartridge. Sorry, I can't put the feel into your hand over the interwebz. If you follow along I think you will be most pleased with outcome.

The Kimber's stock is 21lb, same with my Colt. Just installed a Wolff 17lb main in it, gonna see if that helps. If not, I have a 15lb on standby.

Though Blue Dot is a magnum powder, it's burn rate matches 3N38 according to VV and Alliant. It shot accurately, it just wouldn't cycle properly. Unfortunately it is so dirty that it isn't useable.

The Power Pistol load I tried (4.0gr) was promising, but needs to lose another tenth or two.

1911smith, I want to thank you for this thread. As you know from my thread about low power .45 loads, this thread came to my rescue. I still have some tweaking to do but the information you posted saved me many steps.

Keep up the good work and thank you.

Ok, my turn to ask questions ?

Who's actually followed this with load work of their own ??

How far have you gotten ??

How far do you want to go ??

Sure, I'm fine with doing these pieces for the sake of entertainment. There's a lot more work involved to tuning a load and pistol than we've covered. IF, I am to pursue this further it will have to be with some participation from a few of you.

It won't be easy to follow, require a whole lot of time on your part, possibly cost a few dollars in parts and tools.

I'm not asking for faith in anything I give for information. In fact you shouldn't have faith in what I say or do at all, ever.

What this will require is faith in yourself, your ability to do your own research and work.

If you screw something up, it is of course on you. I will show how I do things with my pistols and how I load for me. Input from those with more experience is of course appreciated and welcomed from those who are "lurking". Really, input from any experience level is very much appreciated.

So let's here from at least two. If we have two of you, who are following along with work of your own or would like too, chime in. I will say this, this piece will move along as fast as the participation. I won't get ahead of the slowest participant.

What a coincidence, I tested same load yesterday at range using assorted brass, Federal primers, Nosler 185 grain bullets and 4.4 grains bullseye.

OAL 1.210, CMOD .471

Tested load with 21lb main and 13lb recoil.

The only problem expererienced was center of target kept blowing out, regardless of distance.




It's just as important to list springs used as cartridge components. Changing spring weight combinations can either open or close your groups.


Also, if you want to round out the experience for everyone it's important to share feed information. Did every cartridge feed ?

We've tons more to cover, but sounds as if your pistol and cartridges are tuned very well.


I want to make a statement before going any further..... 600 fps is slow enough, any thing slower and your risking failure...............


I'm fooling around in the basement with 2.1 grains Trail Boss. Everything at 400 fps has to be perfect. Grip, stance, pistol, cartridge, all has to be perfect.

When we get done with springs, we will visit OCD cartridge tuning like you can't imagine.


Still would like to see one more person involved.

I keep for springs 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, and 23 pound mainsprings Recoil in 7,8,10,11,12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 18.5, 19, 20, and 21 pounders