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GWhis
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Posted: 8/18/2010 8:05:37 PM
[Last Edit: 11/8/2013 12:27:52 PM by GWhis]
I discovered a simple way to take the primer strip-feed system "off line."(Mod 1).
I've also added a second new mod that compliments the first, by allowing the operator to stop the primer rod from priming cases, whenever needed.

The Pro 2000's APS system always works great when there is a case to be primed, but if you don't want to prime a case, during the reloading process, it's hard to lift the press handle enough to index the shell plate, and yet not bump the next primer, sometimes lifting it enough to hang the primer strip. That comes from the fact that the press handle normally continues past T.D.C toward the bench, dropping the shell plate over the primer rod, to prime a case. (T.D.C. means top dead center)

Mod 2 fixes this, by preventing the shell plate from being lowered past the point it indexes....when you engage the Mod. No more hung strips, no more primers lifted until you're ready.

I've been meaning to do this how-to for a month or two, but Gavin's UltimateReloader video's, shared with us on the forum, galvanized me to get it done. Though his videos are for the most part excellent, he struggled a bit with the RCBS Pro 2000 videos...mostly caused by the different way RCBS handles primers...which is way different...than the other brands he had experience with. He could have used these Mods!

In a nut shell, this first generation APS primer loading system is an awesome idea, but needs a couple of tweaks to make it more user-friendly. People who have never loaded before may have an easier time with the learning curve than those experienced reloaders used to tube-fed systems. The Pro 2000's APS system, is really overdue for improvements from RCBS, especially since it is so stupid easy, to make it easier to use and more user friendly. I wasn't willing to wait for factory improvements. Big business take too long to move. Anyway, so here's what I've done to make this system work great for me.

Mod 1, Enhancing the Primer Strip Feed
The RCBS Pro 2000 APS Primer system can't be taken off-line while a loaded primer strip is inserted...unless you modify it.
These pictures show how to do that. Most PICTURE CAPTIONS refer to the picture above them.



Notice the copper-colored block. There is a silver piston on the left side of it and the black cam-follower on the right side. Movement of the piston and the cam follower, as the shell plate goes up and down, is horizontal. The two parts are connected to each other by the two rods visible. In this picture the shell plate is down...the cam-follower is pushed in...pushing out the piston on the other side. From this point, if the shell plate is raised the cam-follower is released...indexing the primer strip to the next primer. If you insert something between the piston and the block, it won't release...and the primer feed will be off-line with no effect to the press.


This is the result of raising the shellplate. Primer strip has just been indexed. Notice how the silver piston is now against the copper block. In this picture you can see the yellow primer strip.

Please notice the vertical spring/rod in the center. That is the primer rod and when, on the down stroke of the shell plate, it hits the press casting below it presses a primer upward into a case. The distance between the shell plate and the press casting determines how deep a primer is inserted. (It can be regulated by an adjustable bolt on the other side of the ram.) It's that simple action of the primer rod that makes Mod # 2 so easy to do. Later on that...back to Mod 1...the primer feed mod.

One thing really worth noting, is that replacing primer rod size is as easy as unscrewing the nut at the top of the primer rod and screwing in the other size rod. This allows changing primer size in 10 seconds or less. Change the rod, and grab a strip of primers of the other size.

Next Picture shows the added parts from Home Depot.



Disengaged.....



Engaged.....(fraction of a second)



This is a picture of the parts from Home Depot, with the exception of the silver 1" angle...(National brand fits...no guarantees on other brands.)
Home Depot is a PITA. You are forced to buy in packages always more than you need....Look for on-hand hardware and save some money.



First thing you have to do is take the surface bolt apart. That requires sticking something thin up over the depression in the bolt base. The depression serves as a keeper to stop for the bolt. The "bridge" over the depression allows you to pull the hidden leaf spring over the bridge and allows the bolt and bolt base to slide apart.



The black thing is the spring. Cut the bolt base at the end of the spring as shown. (keep the side with the spring) I cut mine with a hack saw with the cut line against the surface of my vice. (The next one for a friend, was cut with a cutter wheel on a dremel...way faster/cleaner.)

Also cut the bolt in your vice....make it 1-3/4" long....don't cut the handle side.



The 1" "National" brand steel angle was screwed to the copper APS block with one 8-32 bolt. I had to cut the bolt length down a tad, because good ole Home Depot didn't have short enough bolts...I used the electricians tool shown in one of the pictures above. If you don't have one, screw on two nuts and tighten them together leaving the threads you want to cut outside of them. Vice them down and cut. Then unscrew the nuts...result...threads that will start.

Next screw the bolt base to the angle, but space the bolt base a little using the extra rectangular part in the surface bolt packet to space it out a little.

Notice: The 8-32 bolt and nut does not fit the little hole in the bolt base...that would be 6-32, and I prefer a bigger connection. So I drilled it out bigger and chamfered deeper so the head fit flush (necessary for the bolt to slide).



The other side, showing the bolt's base, before the bolt is installed.



The bolt simply slides on. Notice a little grinding is necessary on the top end of the bolt. The notch is to clear the black plate above.

That's it for the Primer Strip Mod! Push the bolt in and stop primer indexing anytime you want. Pull it out 1/4" and indexing resumes.

If Gavin had had this mod on his Pro 2000, in the first Video when he tested a single round through all the stations, he could have sized and deprimed in station 1, primed in station 2, pushed the "primer strip advance stop bolt" in. (I just named it) Then run through the charging, seating and crimping stations without moving another primer....and guess what? Primer #2 is sitting there ready for the next case placed in station 1.

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Now for Mod 2 which I'll call the Primer Insertion Stroke Blocker, and it's something RCBS could have and should have done a long time ago (and certainly more elegantly than I did), but they didn't. Pro 2000 users need a good way to stop the shell plate at the bottom of it's stroke, but before the primer arm starts lifting a primer. Why? Because there are times when you have pre-primed cases and you don't want the press trying to press another one in, or try pressing the one you got...in further. We get by by pulling the primer strip out, and being careful to not push the handle forward into prime stroke, but if the strip's half unloaded it'd be preferable if you could temporarily disable the strip advance (covered above in Mod 1) and also disable the primer insertion stroke (Mod 2), covered below:

With the addition the the simple gadget shown below, you can reload preprimed brass as fast as you want and never worry about the primer insertion stroke.

The 2 pictures below show the finished mod in the two positions:



Above: Engaged. Stroke will stop, the second the shellplate advances, and the primer rod never moves. The bolt is adjustable in height, so slight differences in press specs make no difference. Get it adjusted once....never need changed. I'm betting if you follow the picture with the ruler on it, it'll be within a 64th. (5/16)



Above: Stored and disengaged. Handle is free to go into the forward priming stroke. The washers under the mod are epoxied in place and makes a sure detent so one doesn't have to worry about things moving around...especially when disengaged at the rest stop...you don't want it to ruin your momentum when you're loading bucket loads and the thing suddenly moves and stops you from priming.



Notice the hole in the base of the press at the top of this picture. That and three more are there to screw your press into a mounting plate. When you've screwed your base down permanently like I have, with the big carriage bolt though each side, you don't need those holes, so we'll use one...

The front hole is where the black knob is dropped into, and the mod pivots there. It's not fastened in any way to the press. The only change to the press really, is gluing the two washers. The one washer is cut to allow the mod to tuck in close to the cam. (the tall metal thing that the primer cam follower rides against)



Here's the parts layed out: The black knob came from a Tru-Value Hardware Store in their specialty hardware section. So listing:

Knob with 1/4" threads (all threads are rough)
1/4"x 3/4"long Hex Head bolt with 1/4" nut.
2" Repair Strip.
1/4" Acorn Nut
1/4" Washer
1/4" Lock Washer
1/4" Nut
2 3/8" Washer (for the glued-in detents)



First step is screwing the 1/4" nut to the bolt, so that there is about 5/16" between the nut ant the bolt head.



Put the bolt as adusted above into the Repair Strip, and tighten the Acorn Nut.
Then put the knob through the strip on the other end from the same direction as before, and add a washer, a lock washer and a nut...Tighten.

The distance from the strip to the end of the acorn nut and to the end of the nut on the other end should be almost identical. The threads sticking out beyond the knob's nut will go into the front press base hole, where it will pivot freely...the acorn nut was used so as to slide easily on the rough Rcbs cast base. That's it, except for the two detents (3/8" washers).



Cut one washer as shown so that the acorn nut in "rest" position can tuck in as close to the cam as possible.



As you can see, from this picture I could've cut less out of the cut washer. Didn't notice that the cam was angled away in back. Not to worry, once epoxied in place the acorn nut doesn't care.
Once you insert the knob in the hole, point the acorn nut toward the ram, apply epoxy to the whole (uncut) washer, and place it under the acorn nut. Location only has to be close. Make sure you don't glue the acorn nut by applying the glue on the outside half of the washers.

Carefully lift the acorn nut/knob assembly (don't move the washer you just glued), and pivot it as close to the cam as you can. Notice in the picture above this one, that I ground off the corner of the strip so as to allow the acorn nut to tuck in even closer...that's necessary to have plenty of clearance for the shell plate to drop, when the tool isn't engaged. Place the glued cut washer below it and tight against the cam.

You're Done when the glue dries!

The detents are obviously not necessary and you can store the "tool" away from the press if you want. But why, when you can have it there always ready, when you want it, and never in the way.

There is nothing in these mods that actually modify the press....except the glued washers. You could drill detents, but the washers work great and they can be removed if you want....and I never will.







GWhis
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Posted: 8/20/2010 12:38:55 AM
I've had to edit this a bunch to try to make it more clear. Such a how-to isn't that easy to write...and have it make sense. Anyway its done...I think.

AeroE, I added this link to my Original RCBS Mod thread in the Gateway, so I'd appreciate if you'd toggle it to stay out of the archives.
Maryland_Shooter
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Posted: 8/20/2010 5:27:53 AM
You all are some of the most ingenious bastages I have ever encountered
Beware Panopticon.
®¿®


http://marylandshooter.com/ar15/junkOne.asp (funny pics)

Thinking of an MI Rail? DON'T
http://marylandshooter.com/ar15/mi/mirailissue.asp
GWhis
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Posted: 8/20/2010 12:04:21 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2010 11:21:11 AM by GWhis]
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
You all are some of the most ingenious bastages I have ever encountered


Ingenious is taking it a little far when the mods are as simple as these. RCBS helped a lot by keeping their press simple. The more complicated the press, the more it requires a genuine genious to figure it out a mod for it. I ain't one of those. I am a guy who doesn't believe in accepting any flaws in my Progressive...too many cases to load...too little time!

I've been trying to figure out a way to create a primer-out detector like you can buy for tube-fed primer systems....and that's a tall order for a man of non-genious intelligence like me. I'm thinking I need a electronics whiz to map me out a simple circuit using either a proximity switch, or a photo switch, that can trip a piezo buzzer when the primer strip reaches it...or when the primer strip passes by. Anybody know of such a guy who likes reloading and frequents this or another reloading forum????

RCBS makes such a detector for their tube primer system option for the Pro 2000, but nothing for those who are using APS. Go figure....guess genious's are in short supply there these days. Of course they're thinking you can't see when primers are running out, using a tube, while you can see the strips running out....if you slow down enough to look.

AeroE
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Posted: 8/23/2010 11:38:57 AM
Originally Posted By GWhis:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
You all are some of the most ingenious bastages I have ever encountered


Ingenious is taking it a little far when the mods are as simple as these. RCBS helped a lot by keeping their press simple. The more complicated the press, the more it requires a genuine genious to figure it out a mod for it. I ain't one of those. I am a guy who doesn't believe in accepting any flaws in my Progressive...too many cases to load...too little time!

I've been trying to figure out a way to create a primer-out detector like you can buy for tube-fed primer systems....and that's a tall order for a man of non-genious intelligence like me. I'm thinking I need a electronics whiz to map me out a simple circuit using either a proximity switch, or a photo switch, that can trip a piezo buzzer when the primer strip reaches it...or when the primer strip passes by. Anybody know of such a guy who likes reloading and frequents this or another reloading forum????

RCBS makes such a detector for their tube primer system option for the Pro 2000, but nothing for those who are using APS. Go figure....guess genious's are in short supply there these days. Of course they're thinking you can't see when primers are running out, using a tube, while you can see the strips running out....if you slow down enough to look.



A simple circuit based on primer position can be made up by using a follower rod in the primer tube with a collar that contacts a micro switch mounted at the top of the tube.
It's true, Obama is the Leader of Fools deluded to believe, "Everything is going to change now".
As for me, I will embrace what is Right more tightly than ever.


1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2
GWhis
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Posted: 8/23/2010 4:15:36 PM
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By GWhis:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
You all are some of the most ingenious bastages I have ever encountered


Ingenious is taking it a little far when the mods are as simple as these. RCBS helped a lot by keeping their press simple. The more complicated the press, the more it requires a genuine genious to figure it out a mod for it. I ain't one of those. I am a guy who doesn't believe in accepting any flaws in my Progressive...too many cases to load...too little time!

I've been trying to figure out a way to create a primer-out detector like you can buy for tube-fed primer systems....and that's a tall order for a man of non-genious intelligence like me. I'm thinking I need a electronics whiz to map me out a simple circuit using either a proximity switch, or a photo switch, that can trip a piezo buzzer when the primer strip reaches it...or when the primer strip passes by. Anybody know of such a guy who likes reloading and frequents this or another reloading forum????

RCBS makes such a detector for their tube primer system option for the Pro 2000, but nothing for those who are using APS. Go figure....guess genious's are in short supply there these days. Of course they're thinking you can't see when primers are running out, using a tube, while you can see the strips running out....if you slow down enough to look.



A simple circuit based on primer position can be made up by using a follower rod in the primer tube with a collar that contacts a micro switch mounted at the top of the tube.


Exactly...fairly simple (if you know how to make a simple circuit). But for the strip fed primers, its a tad more complicated. The biggest problem is that the strips go up and down with the shellplate and you can't mount anything to the strips. One way that might work is.... on the downstroke the strip could trip a roller ended micro switch mounted to the front of the press...except when the strip runs past where the switch is mounted. The "simple" circuit in that case would have to time the 2 strokes. Off (on the upstroke) On (on the downstroke). When the timing is interrupted (no "on" on the next downstroke because the strip is past it) the buzzer would go off. Such a circuit requires a counter/timer IC, and somebody that knows how you utilize it. My training stops there.

There are other possibilites too, like a photo cell that knows when the strip is past when it "sees" its beam, and then trips the buzzer. That circuit would be easy enough, but finding that small of a photo cell that's inexpensive might be more difficult.
sledmack
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Posted: 8/23/2010 9:15:09 PM
Two micro switches? Shell plate down and no strip detected = buzzer on?

I'm not familiar with the press, just guessing based on what you described. But, I know that for controls stuff like this simple is better. Getting into timers and counters is needless complication.
AeroE
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Posted: 8/23/2010 9:53:35 PM
Originally Posted By GWhis:
...
There are other possibilites too, like a photo cell that knows when the strip is past when it "sees" its beam, and then trips the buzzer. That circuit would be easy enough, but finding that small of a photo cell that's inexpensive might be more difficult.


I cleared all the electronic components and tools from my Dad's shop out last spring. I had thousands of solid state devices of all type, probably at least a dozen photo cells, circuit board etching kits, everything needed to run a shop or a hobby. It was in the way and I didn't want to get started on another distraction.

It's true, Obama is the Leader of Fools deluded to believe, "Everything is going to change now".
As for me, I will embrace what is Right more tightly than ever.


1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2
GWhis
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Posted: 8/23/2010 11:55:58 PM
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By GWhis:
...
There are other possibilites too, like a photo cell that knows when the strip is past when it "sees" its beam, and then trips the buzzer. That circuit would be easy enough, but finding that small of a photo cell that's inexpensive might be more difficult.


I cleared all the electronic components and tools from my Dad's shop out last spring. I had thousands of solid state devices of all type, probably at least a dozen photo cells, circuit board etching kits, everything needed to run a shop or a hobby. It was in the way and I didn't want to get started on another distraction.



Guess that means you're out of the running as a source for useful electronic parts, and obviously you aren't into your Dad's interest in electronics. Radio shack used to be a great source, but they don't carry much any more. Trying to find good stuff on the internet electronics-wise is difficult, parts-wise, and information-wise. My searches so far is has only turned up a good deal on micro switches. 10 for $3.00. Finding micro photo cells is like..."buy 1000 or none and most of the sites are foreign.

There are a couple of hobby electronics forums. Maybe I'll join one and try to fake it as a hobbyist.