Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 1613
  • EE 100% (80)
USA TX, USA
Posted: 6/14/2010 2:26:28 PM EST
I have a pound of Winchester super target, had it for 8 years or so and cant find any load data for it. Any one have a starting and max load for 125 gr LRN?
Here, hold my beer....watch this..
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 2416
  • EE 100% (1)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 6/14/2010 3:10:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By DS11M:
I have a pound of Winchester super target, had it for 8 years or so and cant find any load data for it. Any one have a starting and max load for 125 gr LRN?


I have used a ton of WST in .45ACP, .40S&W and 10MM over the past 15 years or so. I have never found a load for 9mm anywhere. I have always had to stock other powder specifically for loading 9s.

RIP: United States of America, Born July 4th, 1776, Died Nov 4th, 2008- SUICIDE
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 1614
  • EE 100% (80)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 6/14/2010 3:33:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By kyreb:
Originally Posted By DS11M:
I have a pound of Winchester super target, had it for 8 years or so and cant find any load data for it. Any one have a starting and max load for 125 gr LRN?


I have used a ton of WST in .45ACP, .40S&W and 10MM over the past 15 years or so. I have never found a load for 9mm anywhere. I have always had to stock other powder specifically for loading 9s.



Same here, used it for 45ACP. I was almost positive I had used it years ago for 9mm. I am just trying to use this stuff up I would hate to just throw it out.

Here, hold my beer....watch this..
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 796
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 6/14/2010 6:02:05 PM EST
Look over at the Brian Eno forums. I think I read over there that guys are using it with 125 gr LRN. Im using 147 gr LRN and 115 gr plated RN (Berry's) and can't find any data that I am comfortable with for WST.

jonblack

Global Warming Hoax Skeptic
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2007
  • Posts 10012
  • EE 100% (1)
USA WA, USA
Link Posted: 6/14/2010 7:27:12 PM EST
Looked thru my manuals, no WST in 9mm data.

Checked my 6 Lyman manuals also, no data.

Sorry, can't help.

I've only loaded WST in 45 ACP and 200 gr SWC's.
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.

Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.


Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2002
  • Posts 957
  • EE 100% (32)
USA NM, USA
Link Posted: 6/14/2010 7:46:36 PM EST
Try 4.2 - 4.7

Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 1616
  • EE 100% (80)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 6/15/2010 4:15:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sinister:
Try 4.2 - 4.7


Have you tried this? or are you only recommending it?

Here, hold my beer....watch this..
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Mar 2003
  • Posts 2298
  • EE 0% (0)
USA UT, USA
Link Posted: 6/15/2010 8:11:37 PM EST
I use 4.4gr WST for a Berry's 115gr plated. I also use 3.8gr for a Berry's 147gr plated. Both have a COL of 1.135". I use mixed brass and Federal primers.

The 147gr load is at max load with no pressure signs in my 9mm SBR AR. The 115gr isn't at max, max is around 5.6gr.

WST powder mimics W231. I find WST burns cleaner. If you can find W231 data you can use those numbers. W231 is more bulky than WST (maybe it's the other way around). Either way, since WST loads tend to be harder to find you can safely use W231 data.
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 1617
  • EE 100% (80)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 6/16/2010 5:04:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gixxersixxer:
I use 4.4gr WST for a Berry's 115gr plated. I also use 3.8gr for a Berry's 147gr plated. Both have a COL of 1.135". I use mixed brass and Federal primers.

The 147gr load is at max load with no pressure signs in my 9mm SBR AR. The 115gr isn't at max, max is around 5.6gr.

WST powder mimics W231. I find WST burns cleaner. If you can find W231 data you can use those numbers. W231 is more bulky than WST (maybe it's the other way around). Either way, since WST loads tend to be harder to find you can safely use W231 data.


Perfect!! Thats what i was looking for!

Here, hold my beer....watch this..
Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2001
  • Posts 9624
  • EE 100% (8)
USA OH, USA
Link Posted: 6/16/2010 1:59:08 PM EST
What the other fella says..... but in my words, WST will usually mirror 231 for the most part.. 5gr behind the common 125gr RNL (Saeco mold used by most vendors) has run 1250 from a 7.5" stainless barrel here..

WST seems to have a softer recoil feel about it.

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 2423
  • EE 100% (1)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 6/18/2010 7:54:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By DS11M:
Originally Posted By Gixxersixxer:
I use 4.4gr WST for a Berry's 115gr plated. I also use 3.8gr for a Berry's 147gr plated. Both have a COL of 1.135". I use mixed brass and Federal primers.

The 147gr load is at max load with no pressure signs in my 9mm SBR AR. The 115gr isn't at max, max is around 5.6gr.

WST powder mimics W231. I find WST burns cleaner. If you can find W231 data you can use those numbers. W231 is more bulky than WST (maybe it's the other way around). Either way, since WST loads tend to be harder to find you can safely use W231 data.


Perfect!! Thats what i was looking for!



OP....will you please post results here?

RIP: United States of America, Born July 4th, 1776, Died Nov 4th, 2008- SUICIDE
Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 1620
  • EE 100% (80)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 6/18/2010 4:03:08 PM EST
Will do, when I get a chance...
Here, hold my beer....watch this..
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 801
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 6/18/2010 8:38:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Look over at the Brian Eno forums. I think I read over there that guys are using it with 125 gr LRN. Im using 147 gr LRN and 115 gr plated RN (Berry's) and can't find any data that I am comfortable with for WST.

jonblack


I should mention to the OP that I followed my own advice and looked over at the Enos Forums. I couldn't find any info on the requested load so I apologize.

jonblack

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2001
  • Posts 9626
  • EE 100% (8)
USA OH, USA
Link Posted: 6/19/2010 2:35:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Look over at the Brian Eno forums. I think I read over there that guys are using it with 125 gr LRN. Im using 147 gr LRN and 115 gr plated RN (Berry's) and can't find any data that I am comfortable with for WST.

jonblack


I should mention to the OP that I followed my own advice and looked over at the Enos Forums. I couldn't find any info on the requested load so I apologize.

jonblack


Follow my advice with WST, 5gr and the common 125 RNL -


3.8gr with 147 lead -

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 802
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 6/19/2010 7:37:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
Follow my advice with WST, 5gr and the common 125 RNL -
3.8gr with 147 lead -


Can you give us the COALs?

Thank you
jonblack


Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jan 2001
  • Posts 9629
  • EE 100% (8)
USA OH, USA
Link Posted: 6/20/2010 7:04:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
Follow my advice with WST, 5gr and the common 125 RNL -
3.8gr with 147 lead -


Can you give us the COALs?

Thank you
jonblack



The 125 RNL I do not currently have on hand to measure.. but if you look at the pic real close, you can see the bearing surface/drive bands of the bullet.. as such, this will dictate you OAL. Load them so the case mouth is even with the edge of the drive band, same as loading 45acp with the 200Gr SWC...

I found I had a handfull of the 147 lead still floating around... both bullets were cast by Glockpost members, the bullet on left is from a Ballisti-Cast mold (single lube groove), and bullet on right is from a RCBS mold (2 lube groove). OAL with these 2 bullet is 1.090 for the Ballisti-Cast, and 1.080 for the RCBS, as this is what would fit chamber with out sticking into the leade/throat and still feed off Uzi mag into Colt pattern 9mm AR-15 and my Sten fed M11-9.






Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 815
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 6/20/2010 5:56:18 PM EST
Thanks for the reply. I will have to compare to some of my 147gr loads (W231). I have some WST on hand so I would like to use it.

jonblack

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 823
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 6/23/2010 6:58:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/23/2010 6:58:31 AM EST by jonblack]
I got some 147gr LRN loaded up over 3.7gr WST with mixed brass and WSPM primer. I loaded to 1.155" OAL. I hope to get to the range today to test the load.

jonblack

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 852
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 6/30/2010 5:42:46 AM EST
Got to the range. Tested the 147 gr LRN load. Ran well. Was pleased. However, I am still having the same problem I have with my W231 loads. When I let my girlfriend shoot the gun, it short stokes. For some reason she limp wrists the gun. She shoots her G19 with 115 RN and my G22 with 180 LTC just fine. Maybe I will load up some 115 RN and see if that makes any difference in the G34. Then I will have it narrowed down to either the 147 LRN or the G34 for her issue.

jonblack

Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 2448
  • EE 100% (1)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 7/7/2010 6:44:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/7/2010 6:48:11 AM EST by kyreb]
Over last weekend I loaded up 200 rounds with 5.0 grains WST with Berry 125 LRN and a Wolf SP primer.

In my SA 9MM 1911 with 5 inch barrel these rounds functioned fine and there were no signs of excess pressure on the spent brass.
My chronograph clocked an average velocity of 1122 FPS. It was ~ 85 degrees and overcast. I am just above sea level outside of Houston.

Personally, I am going to back this load down a bit. I only need to hit a velocity of around 1000 FPS for this is just a target load for use in pistols. I only run FMJ in my 9mm AR.
5.0 grains also fills the case close to the top. On my Dillon 550, I am getting a small amount of powder spilling out the top as I index. This tends to get under the shell plate and gum things up as the powder accumulates there. Will probably go with 4.7 grains WST and be GTG.

ETA: FWIW: I also tested same components with 5.0 grains Universal Clays same day. Average velocity was 1257 FPS.
RIP: United States of America, Born July 4th, 1776, Died Nov 4th, 2008- SUICIDE
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 903
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 7/7/2010 6:55:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By jonblack:
I got some 147gr LRN loaded up over 3.7gr WST with mixed brass and WSPM primer. I loaded to 1.155" OAL. I hope to get to the range today to test the load.

jonblack


I loaded up a bunch more of these and went back to the range. I think this is my new favorite load for my 9mm plinking load. I shoot small pepper poppers at 50 yards with my G34 and with my Colt 9mm AR I was shooting 10" swinger targets at 180 yards and 13" by 25" targets at 250 yards with iron sights. I had a blast with these loads. I plan on loading a bunch more to keep on hand for plinking.

jonblack

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Apr 2005
  • Posts 239
  • EE 0% (0)
USA GA, USA
Link Posted: 7/7/2010 10:57:16 AM EST
I've been shooting 124gr Hornady XTP for about a year with 5.0 grains with good results.

I found the recipe on http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

I haven't coron'ed it, but haven't had any problems.

Basic
Offline
  • Joined Feb 2007
  • Posts 911
  • EE 100% (10)
USA LA, USA
Link Posted: 7/7/2010 8:12:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/7/2010 8:13:26 PM EST by jonblack]
Originally Posted By Gixxersixxer:
<snip> W231 is more bulky than WST (maybe it's the other way around). Either way, since WST loads tend to be harder to find you can safely use W231 data.


I have found WST a little bulkier than W231. That is good for me. It fills the case a little over half way, so if I ever got a double charge the powder would spill out giving an indication of a serious error.

jonblack


Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Jun 2002
  • Posts 2456
  • EE 100% (1)
USA TX, USA
Link Posted: 7/8/2010 6:02:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By Gixxersixxer:
<snip> W231 is more bulky than WST (maybe it's the other way around). Either way, since WST loads tend to be harder to find you can safely use W231 data.


I have found WST a little bulkier than W231. That is good for me. It fills the case a little over half way, so if I ever got a double charge the powder would spill out giving an indication of a serious error.

jonblack



Agreed. This is a huge factor for me when loading pistol rounds. Especially 9mm and smaller. I know people who wold swear by red dot or such. Seemed like they were just dropping a few flakes in the bottom of the case.

RIP: United States of America, Born July 4th, 1776, Died Nov 4th, 2008- SUICIDE
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2009
  • Posts 28
  • EE 0% (0)
USA TN, USA
Link Posted: 7/11/2010 7:50:47 PM EST
The 4th edition of Hornady Reloading does have data for WST in 9mm, this is the only place I have found the data. There is no data listed in this manual for 147gr bullets.

Team Member
Avatar
Bronze
Offline
  • Joined Oct 2001
  • Posts 2118
  • EE 100% (1)
USA WA, USA
Link Posted: 7/11/2010 8:03:21 PM EST
For what it's worth, WST is my favorite 45 powder, and I was running out of my favorite 9mm powder (Titegroup), and I'd seen a few 9mm recipes with WST, so I searched in depth (Enos forums, etc.). I found a posting, where I guy said he couldn't find enough info on WST with 9mm so he called Winchester. He said the powder tech rep at Winchester chewed him out for using WST with 9mm, and said that it wasn't safe. Some other guys posted that they also though that WST with 9mm could put you on the edge of unsafe load, if you weren't careful. I didn't use it. I bought some Winchester Super Field (WSF), for which there many more recipes, and Winchester says: "Super-Field also performs well in 38 Super, 9mm, and 40 S&W pistol loads. Excellent propellant for action pistol applications". Whereas Winchester lists this for WST: "The choice for 12 gauge AA duplicate handloads and standard velocity handgun loads. Ideal for use in 45 Auto match applications." I dunno, maybe the guy was trying to make hot 9mm loads with the WST and that's where you'd have trouble.
But then again, I just need to get my post count up.
Basic
Offline
  • Joined Jul 2009
  • Posts 29
  • EE 0% (0)
USA TN, USA
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 9:56:03 AM EST
I also was in contact with Hodgdon to discuss WST. The representative did say they did not publish data for 9mm but offered this for 38 special

Hodgdon Powder Company
Cartridge Load Recipe Report - 2/24/2010
38 Special
Load Type: Pistol Powder: WST
Cartridge Information
Case: Winchester Barrel Length: 7.7"
Twist: 1:18.75" Trim Length: 1.145"
Primer: WINCHESTER SP

38 Special
Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads
Maximum Loads
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
148 GR. HDY LHBWC WST .358" 1.160" 2.5 680 13,000 PSI 2.8 735 16,000 PSI
158 GR. CAST LSWC WST .358" 1.475" 3.3 705 12,800 PSI 3.7 770 15,700 PSI

and this for 40 S&W

Hodgdon Powder Company
Cartridge Load Recipe Report - 2/24/2010
40 S&W
Load Type: Pistol Powder: WST
Cartridge Information
Case: Hornady Barrel Length: 4"
Twist: 1:16" Trim Length: .845"
Primer: WINCHESTER SP

40 S&W
Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads
Maximum Loads
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
135 GR. NOS JHP WST .400" 1.125" 5.5 1089 27,900 PSI 5.9 1143 31,200 PSI
155 GR. HDY XTP WST .400" 1.125" 4.6 957 25,400 PSI 5.3 1039 32,500 PSI
165 GR. SIE JHP WST .400" 1.125" 4.5 916 26,400 PSI 5.1 995 33,300 PSI
180 GR. HDY XTP WST .400" 1.125" 3.9 830 28,300 PSI 4.3 888 32,400 PSI
200 GR. HDY XTP WST .400" 1.125" 3.0 654 25,300 PSI 3.4 733 31,100 PSI

I didn't inquire about other calibers because I am not fortunate enough to own a 1911, yet.

Top