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Link Posted: 11/10/2009 2:55:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Very nice to see this thread alive.





I doubt heavy weight .2245" bullets (>70 grains) would be practical at 2600 FPS because high pressures would be needed.  Slow powders like H414/H380 might be useful, only powder volume intrusion would cut into that.





You would have to design a special bullet with a groove-riding round nose, then 3-4 driving bands that would leave the GC supported in the neck.  If the GC is deep seated past the neck, you will have fliers

.





I could sketch something up, something with a 0.220" diameter nose about 0.48" long, then 0.2248" shank with 3 grease grooves and a GC shank to see what kind of weight is possible.  It should also have a crimp groove with one driving band forward to prevent telescoping.



ETA, the rough math is over.  70 grains of pure lead is possible.  Alloy?  68 grains.  If there were no grease grooves, GC shank and a pure wad cutter design, it would be 77 grains.



The best BC to be had with a 68 grain design would be in the low 0.200s.  Definite possible 200 yard use, 300 on calm days.




 
Link Posted: 11/10/2009 2:55:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its more like male knitting and you really cant understand it untill you cast your own and send them downrange.


Trust me, Friiguy knows a few things about knitting.  With yarn and with lead.  (Inside joke on the NMHTF)

Sorry, 'bout dat, Mr. Knitter.





Unbelievable!



Just..........don't..............shoot..............my...............dog.

Link Posted: 11/10/2009 3:13:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Very nice to see this thread alive.

I doubt heavy weight .2245" bullets (>70 grains) would be practical at 2600 FPS because high pressures would be needed.  Slow powders like H414/H380 might be useful, only powder volume intrusion would cut into that.

You would have to design a special bullet with a groove-riding round nose, then 3-4 driving bands that would leave the GC supported in the neck.  If the GC is deep seated past the neck, you will have fliers .

I could sketch something up, something with a 0.220" diameter nose about 0.48" long, then 0.2248" shank with 3 grease grooves and a GC shank to see what kind of weight is possible.  It should also have a crimp groove with one driving band forward to prevent telescoping.

ETA, the rough math is over.  70 grains of pure lead is possible.  Alloy?  68 grains.  If there were no grease grooves, GC shank and a pure wad cutter design, it would be 77 grains.

The best BC to be had with a 68 grain design would be in the low 0.200s.  Definite possible 200 yard use, 300 on calm days.
 


Might be an application for paper patching to get around the gas check issues...

I'd hate to be the guy wrapping the patches though.

Link Posted: 11/10/2009 3:18:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its more like male knitting and you really cant understand it untill you cast your own and send them downrange.


Trust me, Friiguy knows a few things about knitting.  With yarn and with lead.  (Inside joke on the NMHTF)

Sorry, 'bout dat, Mr. Knitter.





Unbelievable!



Just..........don't..............shoot..............my...............dog.



But..........I..............need..............yote.............bait.
Link Posted: 11/10/2009 3:52:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Paper patching would be a no-go.  Only GC for this diameter.




Link Posted: 11/10/2009 9:06:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its more like male knitting and you really cant understand it untill you cast your own and send them downrange.


Trust me, Friiguy knows a few things about knitting.  With yarn and with lead.  (Inside joke on the NMHTF)

Sorry, 'bout dat, Mr. Knitter.





Unbelievable!



Just..........don't..............shoot..............my...............dog.



But..........I..............need..............yote.............bait.


Ahh-ohh.  I smell a lock and possibly a bannination.

So, Mr. Knitter, er, I mean Friedguy.  How about a few of your rounds (trades, of course) to see how your 'loads work on coyotes?

I'm sure that a totally softer projectile would turn a dog into minced-meat.  Afterall, a good howler is a dead howler.  

Link Posted: 11/10/2009 9:37:22 PM EDT
[#7]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

Its more like male knitting and you really cant understand it untill you cast your own and send them downrange.




Trust me, Friiguy knows a few things about knitting.  With yarn and with lead.  (Inside joke on the NMHTF)



Sorry, 'bout dat, Mr. Knitter.













Unbelievable!








Just..........don't..............shoot..............my...............dog.








But..........I..............need..............yote.............bait.




Ahh-ohh.  I smell a lock and possibly a bannination.




So, Mr. Knitter, er, I mean Friedguy.  How about a few of your rounds (trades, of course) to see how your 'loads work on coyotes?



I'm sure that a totally softer projectile would turn a dog into minced-meat.
 Afterall, a good howler is a dead howler.
 





We can work out something.



I dont want this to look like an EE thread so no more can be said about that.
 
Link Posted: 11/10/2009 10:11:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its more like male knitting and you really cant understand it untill you cast your own and send them downrange.


Trust me, Friiguy knows a few things about knitting.  With yarn and with lead.  (Inside joke on the NMHTF)

Sorry, 'bout dat, Mr. Knitter.





Unbelievable!



Just..........don't..............shoot..............my...............dog.



But..........I..............need..............yote.............bait.


Ahh-ohh.  I smell a lock and possibly a bannination.

So, Mr. Knitter, er, I mean Friedguy.  How about a few of your rounds (trades, of course) to see how your 'loads work on coyotes?

I'm sure that a totally softer projectile would turn a dog into minced-meat.  Afterall, a good howler is a dead howler.  



Okay-dokay

Link Posted: 12/25/2009 12:10:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Paper patching would be a no-go.  Only GC for this diameter.



lots of guys paper patch for 223. tedious yes, impossible no.
Link Posted: 1/11/2010 4:45:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/910/im001099bn2.jpg

This mold likes to be HOT. Here it is preheating on the edge of the pot.
The gray bottle to the left is anti-seize to lubricate the sprue cutter and alignment pins. The baggie to the right of the pot has remnants from one of my wifes scented candles (citrus pine) that I use for fluxing.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2748/im001100ef0.jpg

Here is the mold with a fresh pour cooling. With this particular mold, allowing the iron to cool too much causes wrinkly bullets.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4679/im001101zj8.jpg

Fresh cast bullets. These were dropped straight from the mold into a five gallon bucket of water. I had to be careful to not let the water touch the molds as it would have cooled them too much as well as many other potential issues.
Excuse the blurry pictures, this particular camera does not have a macro setting.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5982/im001105nd8.jpg

Size reference. As you can see these are tiny (imagine that) and difficult to work with.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1629/im001113se7.jpg

Here are a few sized, lubed and gas checked. Final average weight is right at 62 grains (55 advertised) with straight wheel weight alloy. Note the lack of lubrication on the top lube grooves. This particular bullet is designed as a 'silhouette bullet and lubrication is supposed to be applied by hand before entering the chamber. Again, these are tiny and applying the gas check is tedious work.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2970/im001114rt3.jpg

Here you can see the OAL when seated to the first lube grooves. I also applied a fairly firm crimp at this point to help prevent set back.


For some reason the pictures I took at the range were data corrupted.
I loaded 10 rounds ranging from 18.0 grains of H335 to 24.0 in 0.5 grain increments. I chose H335 because I have over 20#'s on hand and will be the easiest for me to go with.  My goal for this session was to look for leading and determine the maximum pressure before issues arose.
I shot them out of my 16" Barreled AR as this will be the gun to see these the most for training and general plinking.
The 18.0 grain charge cycled the bolt just fine and accuracy was around 2" @ 50 yards.
No signs of leading were found after the 10 shot string. All rounds fed and cycled flawlessly.
This story remained the same until 22.5 grains of H335. At this point the group spread to about 4" @ 50 and slight leading was evident. I continued on to 23.0 grains of H335 just to see (after cleaning the barrel of course) and found that none of the first three shots were on paper.
One of the old timers of the range came over to see what I was doing at this point and we discussed the possibility of the bullets exploding due to too much spin. I do not know if this is what actually happend, but you could see a little grey cloud about 10' in fron of the muzzle after each shot. Very interesting.

I settled on the 20.0 grains of H335 to begin further testing from as these had the better accuracy of the groups fired. I intend to load up about 100 and go for an extended range visit to see how much leading may build up over time.

As a side note, no signs of lead were found in the gas tube upon cleaning and inspection. I do not feel this will be a major issue but I have been wrong before!


ETA: Pics fixed?



    What is your mold number ?  Where did you buy it ?

God bless
Wyr



Link Posted: 1/11/2010 8:32:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Lyman 225646BV



I don't remember if I bought it MidwayUSA or Graf's and Sons. Either way it was on sale.

Link Posted: 5/11/2010 10:16:46 PM EDT
[#12]
this thread needs a bump.
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 9:56:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Can we get an update Friiguy ?
Link Posted: 5/12/2010 9:43:17 PM EDT
[#14]



Quoted:


Can we get an update Friiguy ?


What types of updates are you all looking for?



Sadly since this thread started I haven't done much experimentation. I dont even have a spot to cast or smelt.




I have run over 200 of my favorite load through my AR over a couple sessions and found no signs of leading or degradation in accuracy.





 
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 12:13:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Can we get an update Friiguy ?

What types of updates are you all looking for?

Sadly since this thread started I haven't done much experimentation. I dont even have a spot to cast or smelt.

I have run over 200 of my favorite load through my AR over a couple sessions and found no signs of leading or degradation in accuracy.

 


I have a place where you can cast.
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 8:48:28 PM EDT
[#16]



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:

Can we get an update Friiguy ?


What types of updates are you all looking for?



Sadly since this thread started I haven't done much experimentation. I dont even have a spot to cast or smelt.




I have run over 200 of my favorite load through my AR over a couple sessions and found no signs of leading or degradation in accuracy.



 




I have a place where you can cast.


Can I borrow some time?



Lets set it up.






 
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 9:27:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Can we get an update Friiguy ?

What types of updates are you all looking for?

Sadly since this thread started I haven't done much experimentation. I dont even have a spot to cast or smelt.

I have run over 200 of my favorite load through my AR over a couple sessions and found no signs of leading or degradation in accuracy.

 


Just wondering what load you settled on and the accuracy your getting.
Link Posted: 5/13/2010 9:56:59 PM EDT
[#18]



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:

Can we get an update Friiguy ?


What types of updates are you all looking for?



Sadly since this thread started I haven't done much experimentation. I dont even have a spot to cast or smelt.




I have run over 200 of my favorite load through my AR over a couple sessions and found no signs of leading or degradation in accuracy.



 




Just wondering what load you settled on and the accuracy your getting.


Using the 62 grain cast bullet with Wiinchester small rifle and 20.0 grains of H335 in mixed head stamp cases.



I usually get 1.5" at 50 and and 3 to 3.5" at 100. I can ring steel at 400 with this load.



It has been over a year since I have been serious about reloading but I am getting the itch again.

If I find time I will re do this thread in its entirety and be more diligent about range results.



Glad this thread is of interest!




 
Link Posted: 12/26/2012 12:55:24 PM EDT
[#19]
So this topic is 2-3 years old but i thought i would bump it. Good info in this!
Link Posted: 2/24/2013 10:04:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
So this topic is 2-3 years old but i thought i would bump it. Good info in this!


And another bump. Thanks AeroE for finding it. I can appreciate that casting small caliber bullets can be a PITA, but with things going the way they are I want to have the option of doing so. Costs have sky rocketed, inventories are low to none.
Link Posted: 3/10/2013 10:45:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Mihec over on cast boolits makes a 5.56 boolit mold that works well in the AR. There are some loads worked up that have been getting 1.5" groups at 100 with the 65 grain cast pill with a gas check.
Link Posted: 3/10/2013 11:55:50 PM EDT
[#22]
wow...talk about the walking dead thread

it is interesting though....I have no experience with casting for 223...so...interesting...

I do know about those mold handles though....they are an older Lyman handle and they are freaking awesom.  Designed for the Lyman 1 and 2 cav molds  They fit the hand well and in my opinion are better than the new models.  I have been trying to get another set on ebay at a decent price but so far I have had no luck...like I said they are nice handles...
Link Posted: 3/11/2013 8:35:34 PM EDT
[#23]
The Mihec mold:



What I achieved with my first attempt:



That is a 50yd. target.  18 gr. of H4895.  95-3-2 PB-Sb-Sn, water dropped.  16" Armalite.  Action cycled perfectly, no lead in barrel, 1980 fps.

I've been told that .5gr. of Dacron stuffing to keep powder immobile will tighten the group up.  I've got some loaded this way but am waiting on warmer weather to try.

I've also cast some up with copper added to the alloy, toughening it, which should allow more speed.  Again, waiting on weather.

Standing on the shoulders of giants here, the load came from Larry Gibson over at Cast Boolits.com as did the Dacron idea.  The copper alloying also from Cast boolits, there's quite a long thread on it.  If you're a caster, it's a must visit site.
Link Posted: 3/11/2013 8:55:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
The Mihec mold:

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad248/MBuechle/MiHec_226-065_1.jpg

What I achieved with my first attempt:

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad248/MBuechle/556_cast.jpg

That is a 50yd. target.  18 gr. of H4895.  95-3-2 PB-Sb-Sn, water dropped.  16" Armalite.  Action cycled perfectly, no lead in barrel, 1980 fps.

I've been told that .5gr. of Dacron stuffing to keep powder immobile will tighten the group up.  I've got some loaded this way but am waiting on warmer weather to try.

I've also cast some up with copper added to the alloy, toughening it, which should allow more speed.  Again, waiting on weather.

Standing on the shoulders of giants here, the load came from Larry Gibson over at Cast Boolits.com as did the Dacron idea.  The copper alloying also from Cast boolits, there's quite a long thread on it.  If you're a caster, it's a must visit site.


What about heat treating? 400 in a convection oven for 2 hours I have heard does wonders. 2400ish fps.
Link Posted: 5/3/2013 9:52:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Great thread. Good info!
I'm about to load up some boolits using the NOE 225 055 FN mould for my AR.
Link Posted: 1/22/2014 10:00:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Time for a resurrection.   Been casting Miha's latest 223 75gn mold today.   I have the 65gn and have yet to try it.
Link Posted: 1/23/2014 8:53:34 AM EDT
[#27]
I have been casting with an RCBS 60gr mold with WW then water drenching them, then a couple of days later powder coating them. my work
load has been crazy lately so when I get time I will load more up and get back to you. several months ago I shot some at 2000 fps. no leading but
I need to try more loads, also cast and P.C. lee 230gr  for 300BLK and they cycle fine. not great accuracy but im still working on it.
Link Posted: 10/18/2015 8:28:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Your photos show Lee mold boxes. That is not a Lee mold. It's cast and all Lee molds are aluminum. Please tell me the manufacturer and bullet size and type if possible. I am really disappointed with my Lee .225, 55 grain mold. I am seating the bullet below saami standards and are just about crimping almost into the only grease groove. I would like to buy one as shown in your pics. Thank you. Jerome.
Link Posted: 10/18/2015 8:38:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Lyman 225646 If I recall correctly.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Arrrgh!!! Need to see the pictures!

BTW, who makes the mold?

- AG

ETA, I can see the first pic, rest are red x's...  is it a lee custom mold?  Couldn't be... you said it was cast iron...


Lyman 225646 If I recall correctly.

Link Posted: 6/22/2016 10:34:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Bump.

I plan to try this. And I just order a chrono off amazon.

Link Posted: 6/22/2016 10:44:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 8/2/2016 8:09:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
<a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Powder%20Coat/P1010968_zpsangkv4nj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Powder%20Coat/P1010968_zpsangkv4nj.jpg</a>

I have some loaded up, haven't shot them yet.
From the Lee 55 gr 225 mold. as check installed before being powder coated.
View Quote


Did you get a chance to try these out yet? I was considering buying the same mold and doing the same to test in my 1:9 and 1:7 as a economy practice round
Link Posted: 8/2/2016 11:27:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 8/3/2016 9:48:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Wow, when I started casting the Lee Bators I researched all over for info and now this thread resurrects. Still working up loads to reliably cycle and be fairly accurate.
Link Posted: 8/3/2016 1:37:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
<a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Powder%20Coat/P1010968_zpsangkv4nj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Powder%20Coat/P1010968_zpsangkv4nj.jpg</a>

I have some loaded up, haven't shot them yet.


From the Lee 55 gr 225 mold.
 

Gas check installed before being powder coated.
View Quote



I have that same mould, will be making these up someday. Please post up your results when done.
Link Posted: 8/3/2016 7:19:48 PM EDT
[#36]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Powder%20Coat/P1010968_zpsangkv4nj.jpg



I have some loaded up, haven't shot them yet.





From the Lee 55 gr 225 mold.

 



Gas check installed before being powder coated.

View Quote
What load data are you using? I have that mold the closest i have found is this from the Lyman cast bullet handbook.

 





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