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sbninja
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Posted: 6/25/2008 5:24:57 PM
I just purchased my reloading equipment and supplies. I bought a Lee Loadmaster for .223

I got everything set up , and loaded my first 50 rounds - using the lee factory crimper.

But I have since been reading that many reloaders, don't crimp? should I be concerned?

Do you crimp your .223 for your AR-15?
Wingman26
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Posted: 6/25/2008 5:55:48 PM
I think most of us don't crimp 223, but no worries, your factory crimp die isn't dependent on case length, most others are, so your crimping won't hurt anything.
sbninja
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Posted: 6/25/2008 6:24:14 PM
what are the reasons for crimping and not crimping? case longevity? it looks like crimping might affect accuracy by disfiguring bullet?
Tromatic
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Posted: 6/25/2008 8:50:46 PM

Originally Posted By sbninja:
what are the reasons for crimping and not crimping? case longevity? it looks like crimping might affect accuracy by disfiguring bullet?


If it looks like your "disfiguring" the bullet, you might want to back of a bit on the crimp.
This forum has all you would ever want to know about crimping, too.
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Wingman26
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Posted: 6/26/2008 12:59:09 AM
Most crimp dies for 223 are taper crimp and are very dependent on case length, a case that is a little longer will be tighter crimped than a shorter one, the Lee factory crimp die uses a collet and isn't defendant on case length. A lot of people think 223 has to be crimped since we normally reload for a semi auto, but experience has shown it isn't really necessary.

There is some controversy about crimping affecting accuracy, some tests have shown a slight advantage in accuracy when crimping, but for most people crimping means that every single case is the exact same length, but like I said, that doesn't apply since the Lee factory crimp die works differently from most others.

So the easy answer is...it depends on your exact situation, crimping can be an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your exact circumstances! I know it might not make sense, but that's the way it works.
babob
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Posted: 6/26/2008 1:49:40 AM
[Last Edit: 6/26/2008 1:54:55 AM by babob]

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
Most crimp dies for 223 are taper crimp and are very dependent on case length, a case that is a little longer will be tighter crimped than a shorter one, the Lee factory crimp die uses a collet and isn't defendant on case length. A lot of people think 223 has to be crimped since we normally reload for a semi auto, but experience has shown it isn't really necessary.

There is some controversy about crimping affecting accuracy, some tests have shown a slight advantage in accuracy when crimping, but for most people crimping means that every single case is the exact same length, but like I said, that doesn't apply since the Lee factory crimp die works differently from most others.

So the easy answer is...it depends on your exact situation, crimping can be an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your exact circumstances! I know it might not make sense, but that's the way it works.


Wingman26 you are right on the money about everything in your reply. I use the LFCD on all my .223 that will be run in my ARs. I have found that accuracy was slightly increased in my reloads and as you stated if the case lengths are not all the same then you should use the LFCD.

I would like to point out something about the part in red that I have highlighted. The main reason for me to crimp my reloads that are to be used in my ARs was to insure that I would be less likely have a chance to experience firing a round that had suffered "bullet setback".

My son and I shoot in local 3-Gun matches. At the last match of the year in 2007 we did have an incident that would have very likely caused "bullet-setback" if I had not crimped when reloading. My son was shooting a house clearing stage and suffered a bad jam due to a magazine failure. One of the jammed rounds had severe cuts on the bullet and the case had started to fold from where the round had slammed into the chamber in a vertical position. The bullet did not "setback" even under these extreme conditions. It does not take too much bullet setback to increase pressures and have a possible ka-BOOM if you are loading your ammo hot or not IMHO.

Another experience I have had with bullet-setback was shooting some old Remington SP factory ammo. It was obvious that the ammo had never been crimped and we had a few malfunctions that led to setback. Luckily we caught each one and after the third occurence, we stopped using the old ammo. I have since then run them through the LFCD and had zero issues.

So I can state that from my experience, you should crimp all your ammo that will be used in an auto loading type rifle like the AR. I really look at it like an insurance policy. Just because you've never had a car accident does'nt mean that you should drive without it now does it? Well just because you've never fired a round that suffered from bullet-setback does'nt mean that you should never crimp, but if you ever do I'm sure you'll be wishing that you should have spent that little extra time to insure your safety as well as others around you.
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dryflash3
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Posted: 6/26/2008 2:32:59 AM
I crimp 55 and 62 gr FMJBT loads with a Lee FCD. Bullets seated to mid cannelure.

My match loads do not get crimped.

How I do it.
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GlockFace
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Posted: 6/26/2008 7:04:40 AM
No crimp for me.
jtl1952
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Posted: 6/26/2008 4:53:42 PM
I always crimp using a Lee FCD.
55 g FMJBT per the crimp die instructions, and 69 g SMK only to the point that I can see a crimp starting.
d_striker
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Posted: 7/19/2008 7:35:16 PM
I have the Lee Pacesetter Dies for .223. The bullet seating die also roll crimps the mouth if desired. Right now I'm not using the bullet seating die to crimp but use the FCD to lightly crimp.

Is this what you guys do?
oldschool63
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Posted: 7/19/2008 7:46:26 PM

Originally Posted By GlockFace:
No crimp for me.
brentwal
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Posted: 7/19/2008 8:14:24 PM
No crimp on match loads
res45
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Posted: 7/19/2008 8:39:51 PM
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:42:42 PM by res45]

it looks like crimping might affect accuracy by disfiguring bullet?


You have to watch that Lee Factory crimp die,especially using bullets with no canalure in semi auto rifles it really screwed up my reloads accuracy in my YUGO and Chinese SKS.

2/5 shot groups.


dryflash3
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Posted: 7/19/2008 8:55:07 PM

Originally Posted By d_striker:
I have the Lee Pacesetter Dies for .223. The bullet seating die also roll crimps the mouth if desired. Right now I'm not using the bullet seating die to crimp but use the FCD to lightly crimp.

Is this what you guys do?


Yes.
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d_striker
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Posted: 7/20/2008 12:42:52 AM
Dryflash- I also have some Hornady 68 grain HPBT bullets with no cannelure. Do you still crimp bullets with no cannelure?
ma96782
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:00:14 AM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 6:07:51 AM by ma96782]
To Crimp

OR,

NOT To Crimp?

That is the Question.

_______________________________________________


There is no one correct way to do things.

Choose how YOU like to do things.

There are REASONS, why some want to crimp and for why some want to avoid crimping.



To crimp or not?


www.scidetroit.com/bulletseating.htm


_______________________________________________



Re-loading Crimp or Not

More reading on crimps......

Q.
The rifle bullet I'm loading has a crimp groove, but the cartridge length recommended puts the groove out of the case. Should I change the seating length to make the crimp groove line up.

A.
No. Not all rifle cartridges require crimping. The groove on the bullet is positioned for those that need the crimp. If the recommended seating length puts the crimp groove above or below the case mouth, we determined that crimping was not needed. Having the crimp groove above or below the case mouth has no adverse effects on accuracy or performance.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q.
I'm reloading 30-30 ammo for my lever-action rifle. Do I need to crimp the bullets.

A.
Yes, crimping is mandatory for ammo to be used in any rifle with a tubular magazine. The pressure of the magazine spring and the vibration of recoil can cause the bullet to "telescope" into the case, resulting in poor feeding and increased pressure. When loading for a tubular magazine rifle, always select a bullet with a crimp groove, and one that has a flat point to prevent in-magazine firing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q.
I bought a reloading die set and there’s a note with the dies that says something like, “Speer does not recommend using their bullets with these dies.” What’s the deal?

A.
Speer never made such a broad recommendation. Speer’s recommendation is: Do not apply a crimp to any bullet that does not have a crimp groove. The die company in question markets a die to produce a “factory crimp” and recommends it be used on any bullet. Speer’s tests, and those by another bullet maker and an independent gun writer, show that crimping a bullet that doesn’t have a crimp groove degrades group size by an average of 40 percent. Other than the crimp die, we have no problem with our bullets in that firm’s dies, although our preference is for RCBS® products.
We express ours thanks to the die maker for allowing us to make contact with so many new SPEER customers.

Taken from.......

www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=5&s2=30




The military specs. a crimp for their ammo. The crimp helps with prevention of bullet set back. The crimp helps with keeping COAL consistent and that helps with reliability in feeding. Then, as in the case of the 5.56mm, the bullet likes to fragment in the cannelure (crimp groove).

_______________________________________________

Then............for some it's.............

IF your bullet has a cannelure............crimp it.

IF your bullet doesn't (have a cannelure).................then don't.

Aloha, Mark