User Panel
Posted: 9/25/2009 4:24:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ATICSR_Christopher]
September 25, 2009
To whom it may concern, This is a letter to inform you of the present status regarding the lawsuit filed upon German Sport Guns and American Tactical Imports Inc. (ATI) by H&K for alleged trade dress infringement for the GSG-5 series of firearms. Although this lawsuit is ongoing, ATI would like to update you with information about this lawsuit. This trade dress suit is very similar to the 2004 trade dress lawsuit imposed by Colt on Bushmaster and H&K regarding the appearance of the M4/AR-15. The ultimate result of the Colt lawsuit stated that there is no trade dress rights associated with this design. The lawsuit was then dismissed. German Sport Guns and ATI are both highly confidant that if this lawsuit goes to court, it will conclude with a similar result as the Colt lawsuit. It is clear to any gun enthusiast that the H&K MP-5 is based on the design of the original G3, a design which is owned by the German government. It is also well known that the German government and several other nations gained permission to create the G3 and other variations based off of the original Spanish CETME assault rifle. These firearms are still available for sale in many countries around the world. This information is noted in detail in H&K’s history book, “H&K Heckler & Koch” by Manfred Kersten and Walter Schmid, available through firearm and book retailers. German Sport Guns and ATI feel that this information available in the public domain greatly helps solidify our stance regarding the GSG-5. The GSG-5 is currently sold to 55 different countries. If German Sport Guns and ATI do not win this lawsuit, these firearms as well as any H&K MP-5 style firearm, air gun, air soft gun, or paintball gun, as well as any MP-5 style accessories not manufactured by H&K, will no longer be able to be imported and sold in the United States. We are not currently the only victims of this type of trade dress lawsuit with H&K. There are 24 other companies as defendants involved in this same type of action with H&K. You can view their other dockets here: H&K lawsuits against 24 companies Although ATI is still currently importing the GSG-5 carbines and pistols, the available stock of these firearms may dwindle due to an increase in demand because of this lawsuit. German Sport Guns and ATI are aware that distributors and dealers may be concerned regarding the value of their GSG purchases. As history shows, regarding lawsuits of this nature, the value and demand may skyrocket. German Sport Guns and ATI will hold firm on the current pricing of the GSG-5 products. We will not be changing any of our standard policies no matter the outcome of the lawsuit. It is German Sport Guns and ATI’s highest priority to win this lawsuit so that we can continue to provide the GSG-5 to firearm enthusiasts all over the country. Regardless of the outcome, ATI will continue to provide the same outstanding quality of warranty and customer services to all GSG-5 owners from our service center in Rochester, NY. German Sport Guns and American Tactical Imports remain diligent and dedicated in pursuing the legal justice we expect to see in the outcome of this lawsuit. As you have seen with the additions of the GSG-AK47 series and the upcoming GSG 1911 pistol, German Sport Guns and ATI will continue to add new models and features to the growing line up of German Sport Gun firearms. We appreciate your continued support of our businesses during this unfortunate situation. Sincerely, Anthony DiChario American Tactical Imports President C.E.O. |
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Sorry to hear you guys are getting sued, I hope you win the lawsuit. I've got my GSG-5 about a year ago and love it. So does everybody who shoots it. My best friend and my brother are both wanting to get one. I guess I better tell them to get one ASAP.
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Sock it to 'em, and then counter-sue for legal costs/damages.
All the market will bear, plus 10%. |
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All the best of luck to you guys to come out in your favor. I hate it when big companies try to do this shit. If HK didnt snub their noses at the civilian market and actually made models of their rifles reasonably priced, then they wouldnt have this problem to begin with.
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HK sure is getting sue-happy.
They recently sued Tippmann Sports for their A5/X7 paintball gun lines and accessories as well. |
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"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Benjamin Franklin
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Glad I never threw any money towards HK products. They certainly will never see a penny from this day on.
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" In a truly free Country, Citizens do not need permission to keep and bear arms. " - Dick Heller
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Originally Posted By DrJester:
Glad I never threw any money towards HK products. Translation: I can't afford a USP...................... |
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I live in a modest home with an immodest array of firearms.
NRA Life Member, USPSA Life Member. "We're gonna have peace & I don't care who I have to kill to get it!" - Judge Roy Bean |
Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
Regardless of the outcome, ATI will continue to provide the same outstanding quality of warranty and customer services to all GSG-5 owners from our service center in Rochester, NY. Sincerely, Anthony DiChario American Tactical Imports President C.E.O. That's what I like to hear. I have had nothing but exceptional service from you folks on every occasion, you have some quality employees on hand. |
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Thanks everyone for your support!
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Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
September 25, 2009 To whom it may concern, As you have seen with the additions of the GSG-AK47 series and the upcoming GSG 1911 pistol, German Sport Guns and ATI will continue to add new models and features to the growing line up of German Sport Gun firearms. We appreciate your continued support of our businesses during this unfortunate situation. Sincerely, Anthony DiChario American Tactical Imports President C.E.O. Hey Anthony..... Give us an STG-43 or MP-44 Sturmgewehr in .22LR and price it around $600....$700....$800! I'll pay you right now! And I'm pretty sure that the Third Reich or C. G. Haenel Waffen und Fahrradfabrik won't sue you. |
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I hope H&K chokes on it.
It's not like they try to sell us a similiar rifle. |
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Native Texan
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Use of live ammunition is now authorized
TN, USA
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Originally Posted By ALLANJ:
I hope H&K chokes on it. It's not like they try to sell us a similiar rifle. They are now just because of these lawsuits. Problem is, its going to be Walther making them. The Colt .22 from Walther was pretty ill received. |
May God help us all in the years to come. Thats if we run out of ammo first.
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So am I reading that right, if HK wins then the GSG will still be sold in the other 54 countries just not the US? That would blow.
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Hello All,
Here's some more news and good news too! Thanks for your continued support. ~Christopher In the lawsuit filed by HK against ATI and GSG in federal court in Indianapolis, Judge Lawrence recently handed down his decision on our motion to dismiss the Indiana statutory claims. In our motion, we asked the court to dismiss the Indiana conversion claim, and the Court has done so. In our motion, we also asked the court to dismiss the cause of action asserted under the Indiana deception statute, and the court has done so. In our motion, we also asked the court to dismiss the claims asserted under the Indiana forgery and counterfeiting statutes, and the court has dismissed those claims to the extent that they are based upon the appearance of the GSG-5 firearm products. To the limited extent that HK’s forgery and counterfeiting claims are based on the product description labels affixed to the ends of GSG’s firearms cartons, those claims are not dismissed. However, the court states that, to be successful on those claims, HK will have to prove at trial that those product description labels “purport to have been made by or under the authority of Plaintiff” and that “[w]hether the Plaintiff can prove that element of their claims remains to be seen.” It also remains to be seen whether HK will be successful on any of the other claims remaining in the lawsuit. Tony DiChario President and CEO American Tactical Imports (ATI) Inc. |
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So, ......Your all good except for the box the GSG comes in???
Or are there many more claims to sort through?? I'm gonna IM you a question too- |
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Well, we'll see on all of it being 'good,' heh. But having areas dismissed is definately good. German Sport Guns and ATI did depositions for court last week, we had the Germans here, who sha-bang. It was after these were done that we had several claims dismissed.
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If you don't mind me asking, when the case went to court, where there exhibits presented as evidence, i.e. the actual guns themselves? Or was it all on paper & verbal arguements?
I kinda giggle when I picture a judge who doesn't know shit from shinola about firearms trying to come to a decision on this thing.............. |
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I live in a modest home with an immodest array of firearms.
NRA Life Member, USPSA Life Member. "We're gonna have peace & I don't care who I have to kill to get it!" - Judge Roy Bean |
Well, this hasn't gone to actual court yet. Last week was ATI & GSG depositions and the dismissed charges followed our depositions. I guess the way it goes, H&K will do theirs next and then at that point in time if they don't make us a ridiculously nice offer to settle it will then go to court. There's some other really odd and interesting things going on right now with this suit that I can't talk about yet, but once I get the go ahead, all info will be shared on this thread.
Consequently, as this is a major issue with us and we want to make sure that we spread as much info as possible; Jackal2001, Tony, the owner of our company wants to know if we can have this thread and the GSG/ATI vs H&K poll going on on here pinned up top until this ordeal is over. We've made a viewer out of him on here now at least! Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
...if they don't make us a ridiculously nice offer to settle it will then go to court. I do hope that includes a lot more than just attorney fees. |
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"Can't Feed Them? Don't Breed Them!" applies to both people and animals.
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Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
Jackal2001, Tony, the owner of our company wants to know if we can have this thread and the GSG/ATI vs H&K poll going on on here pinned up top until this ordeal is over. We've made a viewer out of him on here now at least! Thanks! That sounds like a really good idea. |
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Screw HK. I can't believe they'd pull that shit after the Colt fiasco.
I quit buying their product many years ago. Looks like a good decision. |
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Good luck ATI –– i really hope you guys win, keep up the good fight
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Underwater fire prevention trainee
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Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
Well, this hasn't gone to actual court yet. Last week was ATI & GSG depositions and the dismissed charges followed our depositions. I guess the way it goes, H&K will do theirs next and then at that point in time if they don't make us a ridiculously nice offer to settle it will then go to court. There's some other really odd and interesting things going on right now with this suit that I can't talk about yet, but once I get the go ahead, all info will be shared on this thread. Consequently, as this is a major issue with us and we want to make sure that we spread as much info as possible; Jackal2001, Tony, the owner of our company wants to know if we can have this thread and the GSG/ATI vs H&K poll going on on here pinned up top until this ordeal is over. We've made a viewer out of him on here now at least! Thanks! Christopher, Good luck in your case. You may want to run this past your legal counsel first. I know you want to get the word out on what is going on, but I am sure your attorneys want you to be careful what you disclose on a public forum. Be sage and good luck. Matt |
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Hello,
Below is a link to the actual notice of dismissal from a State Court of Indiana. Click the link for the PDF! Several Motions Dismissed |
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Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
Hello, Below is a link to the actual notice of dismissal from a State Court of Indiana. Click the link for the PDF! Several Motions Dismissed Anthony The trade dress claim which HK is making seems to be so ridiculous when one considers the laws regarding it. Has your company considered filing a counter claim against HK for a frivilous lawsuit? |
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What's with the "Automatic Assault Weapon"?
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Jimi Hendrix's guitar: Beat zombies down with it, use the essence of Hendrix to destroy anything.
*YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE LEFT HANDED TO USE THIS |
Originally Posted By cantgrowup:
Hey Anthony..... Give us an STG-43 or MP-44 Sturmgewehr in .22LR and price it around $600....$700....$800! I'll pay you right now! And I'm pretty sure that the Third Reich or C. G. Haenel Waffen und Fahrradfabrik won't sue you. Yes, PLEASE - an MP44 or a G1 n .22LR!!! I don't want to have to carve up an airsoft MP44 to fit a 10/22 inside of it! |
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October 12, 2009
Re: Heckler and Koch, Inc. vs. German Sport Guns GmbH, American Tactical Imports, Inc. Civil Action No. 1 : 09-cv-00039-WTL-JMS (S.D. Indiana) For immediate release, We are very pleased to report that the litigation filed by Heckler & Koch, Inc. against German Sport Guns GmbH and its U.S. distributor, American Tactical Imports, Inc., together with all counterclaims, has been settled. The terms of the settlement are confidential to the parties and cannot be disclosed. A dismissal of the above-referenced litigation, and all of the party’s claims against each other, is expected to be filed in the near future. Attorneys for H&K will be issuing a statement. The attorneys for ATI have already issued a statement announcing the settlement. Production and importation of the original design GSG-5 ceased as of Oct, 8, 2009 with the signing of the agreement. The remaining inventory now in the USA can be sold by ATI, all distributors and dealers. ATI currently has GSG-5’s in stock. All sales of the GSG-5 by ATI must conclude by January 31, 2010. ATI will continue to service every firearm that it imports into the USA. Thank you for your support. Anthony DiChario President C.E.O. American Tactical Imports, Inc. |
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That's crazy. I am glad to hear you guys standing behind your product. |
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What a shame. But life goes on. Does this mean that there might be more focus on another 22lr chambered "replica"?
Say, something in an STG44 flavor......? |
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ATI will continue to service every firearm that it imports into the USA.
Thank you for your support. Anthony DiChario President C.E.O. American Tactical Imports, Inc. ...that it imports, AND that it importED? ATI will no longer import gsg-5's. i'm asking just for clarification's sake. i hate legal mumbo jumbo. |
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So with that statement, does this mean there is no chance for continued GSG5 importation into the USA, or is there a chance to overturn the ruling? I am not an attorney so I am not up to par on the rules and regulations of rulings and overturning them...
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The GSG-5 as it exists is done. We still have inventory to sell to distributors, but all GSG-5 MP-5 style clones must be sold by Jan 31st. Ak's are still ok. 1911 will be good. And perhaps we have something up our sleves.....perhaps
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What bad timing. My GSG 5 PK SBR is almost finished. Now I am not sure if I want to even fire it due to possibly breaking something and not being able to get parts or whatever for it....
Could ATI build the GSG 5 and pay a license fee to H&K? Was the AK an "officially licensed" firearm? If so, we shouldn't have this same problem right? |
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Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
The GSG-5 as it exists is done. We still have inventory to sell to distributors, but all GSG-5 MP-5 style clones must be sold by Jan 31st. Ak's are still ok. 1911 will be good. And perhaps we have something up our sleves.....perhaps Oh please let it be an MP44... pretty please.... with sugar on top Do you need my check right now? |
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HK is said to be licensing a .22 version of the MP5. Maybe GSG is the one getting that and the old version is being discontinued and a full HK trademarked version is coming out? I'm sure ATI couldn't say even if this was the case.
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Originally Posted By my2cents:
HK is said to be licensing a .22 version of the MP5. Maybe GSG is the one getting that and the old version is being discontinued and a full HK trademarked version is coming out? I'm sure ATI couldn't say even if this was the case. this. this is what i was pondering. |
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Originally Posted By my2cents:
HK is said to be licensing a .22 version of the MP5. Maybe GSG is the one getting that and the old version is being discontinued and a full HK trademarked version is coming out? I'm sure ATI couldn't say even if this was the case. That's likely true. H&K has been beitch-slapping airsoft companies left and right over their "H&K" guns. Maybe ATI can beitch-slap back at those effin ex-Nazis and cut a trademark deal with B&T and sell the GSG5's as B&T - marked guns? That's what Classic Army did with their "H&K" airsoft guns to get past the jack-boots at H&K. Otherwise, make a .22 MP44 or a .22 FAL or a .22 G43 or a .22 FAMAS or a .22 AUG or a .22 L85 - - and we'll beat the doors down at ATI to buy one. Frankly, the MP5's (and M4's) are so completely over-exposed in my other world of airsofting that I personally could care less of the loss of a .22 MP5. ATI - listen to what your customers want: give us the MP44 and FAL and I'll personally buy both. Toss in a G43 and you've sold a 3rd gun. Keep realistic .22 mil-sims coming and you'll have us casual shooters by the nose and wallets. JM2cents |
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I think this is a lot of sour grapes on HK's part, for underestimating the demand for a rimfire vervision. Wonder how long it will be before they start production on the H&K MP-.22....
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Originally Posted By 7thCavScout:
I think this is a lot of sour grapes on HK's part, for underestimating the demand for a rimfire vervision. Wonder how long it will be before they start production on the H&K MP-.22.... Problem with the HK version will be its cost, will people be willing to pay $1,500+ for a .22 MP5 ? Some will just caus its HK, but Ive been down the HK road and didnt find it palatable. |
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Originally Posted By MNSmitty:
What a shame. But life goes on. Does this mean that there might be more focus on another 22lr chambered "replica"? Say, something in an STG44 flavor......? I pray for that! |
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Maybe they will move onto an mp44 now =)
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I was set to buy a GSG until I read this. Now I worry about being able to find replacement parts down the road . What would be your advice ? Buy it and hope nothing breaks down the road or go after a clone of a different design ? I have no interest in a rimfire AR .
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I personally find this disheartening to say the very least, unless there is some reasonably priced alternative being considered. HK has been ignoring the public market in the U.S. for so long, at least for rifles, it seems they don't want us to have anything that even resembles a HK. I hope someone is going to offer it, either ATI via HK, or vice versa. I have had a GSG5 since it came out and it's probably my most fun carbine to shoot. I DO NOT WANT to put it in the safe and never shoot it again, I want to shoot it this weekend!!! This really makes me rethink considering a 416 if they ever come out with the U.S. version.
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Originally Posted By jlemmy:
I was set to buy a GSG until I read this. Now I worry about being able to find replacement parts down the road . What would be your advice ? Buy it and hope nothing breaks down the road or go after a clone of a different design ? I have no interest in a rimfire AR . Chris has already said GSG will continue to produce the parts for the GSG-5 and they will still be importing them. So to me this is not really a concern. |
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Originally Posted By Bizill:
ATI will continue to service every firearm that it imports into the USA.
Thank you for your support. Anthony DiChario President C.E.O. American Tactical Imports, Inc. ...that it imports, AND that it importED? ATI will no longer import gsg-5's. i'm asking just for clarification's sake. i hate legal mumbo jumbo. Can this be answered please ? I'm thinking about buying two more tomorrow locally if I know there will still be parts / warranty / service available . Thanks in advance. |
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Originally Posted By CDNinUSA:
Originally Posted By Bizill:
ATI will continue to service every firearm that it imports into the USA.
Thank you for your support. Anthony DiChario President C.E.O. American Tactical Imports, Inc. ...that it imports, AND that it importED? ATI will no longer import gsg-5's. i'm asking just for clarification's sake. i hate legal mumbo jumbo. Can this be answered please ? I'm thinking about buying two more tomorrow locally if I know there will still be parts / warranty / service available . Thanks in advance. Replacement parts is what i'm worried about. ATI how about it ? How long will replacement parts be available ? |
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I implore all of you to not freak out about repair/replacement parts and be patient. We have to get all the i's dotted and t's crossed on the settlement, then we'll be in the clear to explain why you needn't worry about parts for the future.
so, i understand this will cause rampant speculation for the present on here, that's ok. ATI will explain all once things are finalized. |
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Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
I implore all of you to not freak out about repair/replacement parts and be patient. We have to get all the i's dotted and t's crossed on the settlement, then we'll be in the clear to explain why you needn't worry about parts for the future. so, i understand this will cause rampant speculation for the present on here, that's ok. ATI will explain all once things are finalized. That's good enough for me -thank you Chris. One last question though...can you please tell those of us waiting on the SD kits.....should we continue to wait or are they forever gone? |
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Thanks go out to fsk1290's fantasy football team. Had his team not had a complete and total collapse I would have had to renew my ARFCOM membership out of my own pocket :-)
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How about setting up production here in the USA ????
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My guns are not worth your life, but my liberty and freedom are worth mine.
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One last question though...can you please tell those of us waiting on the SD kits.....should we continue to wait or are they forever gone?
That's a damn good question that I don't have the answer to right now. Actually all the accessories quite frankly. Hmmm. Unfortunately info available to me at this time is scanty at best. I do all of our imports as well as CSR but I have not been in the loop as to the accessory situation as of. I'll let you know when I am told and authorized to share. thanks! |
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