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Posted: 9/25/2009 9:59:26 AM
I think that the HK lawsuit is B/S. Although I'd like more details on it, I am guessing they are suing because the GSG has the same relative appearance as their MP5. The internal workings and nomencalture are totally different and nowhere does ATI/GSG claim it is an MP5....to try to push sales. It is kinda like Ford suing all the other car makers because they made cars after the model T. HK makes a product that is unattainable for the civilian market. Just cause they dick danced and dropped the ball releasing a 22 version after GSG/ATI .......is their own fault.....likely, this 22 version was inspired by the GSG and would not have come to fruition without it. After you win the suit.....counter sue for them copying your 22. I would say that is more of a realistic lawsuit than theirs.
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Posted: 9/25/2009 3:20:52 PM
[Last Edit: 9/25/2009 3:21:24 PM by MadDogDan]
PimpedGSG: You are correct about HK suing just because the GSG "looks like" and MP5. In fact they are suing every company who makes even a toy airsoft gun that looks like an MP5. Very close to where I live is a shop called Iron Ridge Arms and they make, in house, here in the USA, their "own" receivers and use surpluss HK parts to sell "complete" MP style 9mm. They are not cheap and run between $3,000 and $3,500 before tax stamp (they do not make 16" carbines, only SBR's). They were sued by HK as well and HK wants them not only to stop making their version but want Iron Ridge to pay HK all the profits they ever made on every sale.
HK Blows 
MadDog |
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BobCole
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Posted: 9/25/2009 10:49:17 PM
Originally Posted By Choadlywan:
Does purchasing a GSG5 dilute the trademark of HK? Actually, I think one could make the arguement that the GSG enhances the value of the MP5 series, IMO. Rare is the hardcore gun owner whom wouldn't sleep with Rosie "where's my food?" O'Donnell for a chance at a semi MP5, never mind a full auto version. Much like the car kits that take a fiberglass body on top of a VW, everyone with a gnat's IQ knows it ain't the real deal. 
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ATICSR_Christopher
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Joined: Feb 2009 NY, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2009 10:13:36 AM
Thanks to everyone for their support!
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Posted: 10/10/2009 2:10:30 PM
I'll never buy an H&K product and think "looks" and design have nothing to do with each other.
I'm more concerned about your limited 2 year warranty considering the issues of durability. Though I LOVE my GSG-5 I'm afraid to put too many round through it! Do us all a favor and put a life time warranty in writing like most manufactures.  |
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Posted: 10/11/2009 1:18:25 AM
H&K is just ticked off that you had the idea to come with the design of a .22lr that shares the same platform and it sold extremely well.
I do have a USP however if H&K wins this and keeps everyone else like you guys at ATI from producing affordable products that we want, I will never touch another H&K firearm as long as i have a choice. simple as that. Ive had 10 times the fun with my GSG as I have my usp, and mags and parts are a heck of alot easier to find, and priced fair as well. |
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Posted: 10/13/2009 5:55:08 PM
Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
Thanks to everyone for their support! So lets hear the update on the lawsuit Chris. We are hearing that Jan. 31st is the last day to buy a GSG....is this true  |
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Posted: 10/13/2009 6:00:47 PM
hearing the same, this is not good.
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Posted: 10/13/2009 6:41:42 PM
well not to stir the pot here...............
Christopher I own quite a few h/k products and have zero problems with any warranty work from them ... none at all . i have sent my 5ds back to them after many thousands of rounds with some " unfactory modifications" and never once did they question anything about it . they fixed it and shipped it back to my ffl guy .......... now i have a major "warranty as stated in a email that my problem would be repaired as it came with a 2 year warranty" . and now i am told not so . i have to pay out of pocket to get it fixed......... MY LOYALTY STANDS WITH WHOEVER GIVES THE MOST OUTSTANDING CUSTOMER SERVICE !! bottom line ........ you want backers and believers then give SUPERB customer srevice........... like I have received from the other manufacturer............. |
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crashburnrepeat
dragged in kicking and screaming
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Posted: 10/15/2009 12:25:57 PM
screw H&K. If they would have given a rats backside about civilian/public sales years ago they would not be having these issues. ATI delivered a product the public likes and will buy based in a void in the market left by HK.
HK's design is decades old and really the only beef HK has is that it looks like the same gun, despite being a completely different animal. If only I could boycott HK, I would. But after refusing to sell the 416 to lowly civilians I sold all my HK stuff and vowed that I would kiss Rosie O'Donnells fat, stinking ass before I'd ever buy another HK. So I can't boycott them. I *CAN* however influence other shooters. I teach concealed weapons permit classes, I am also an NRA certified instructor who spends lots of time with the young, impressionable youth in the scouting program. I am also shooting coordinator at a local range as well as being my company's "gun guy" as well as my church's "gun guy". I will continue to talk anyone and everyone I can out of buying HK crap. The scouts specifically, when they shoot the GSG5 and like it want to know the history of the gun etc. I explain the MP5 and how it's a visual clone of the gun and explain that it's good companies like GSG and ATI exist so you can buy that stuff because HK would not want us owning them and refuse to sell some guns to civilians. The scouts universally agree that sucks. so I will continue my little one man crusade to take a small chunk out of HK whenever and wherever I can. I know it won't matter to HK at all, but it makes me happy. I know I have personally cost them between 4-6 K worth of revenue by talking people out of buying their stuff and steering them towards other companies and support the civilian firearms market better. eventually the wars will stop, and .mil sales will slow down or dry up, and HK will be courting civilians more, well they can suck rocks. screw HK. |
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BobCole
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Posted: 10/15/2009 7:32:21 PM
Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
screw H&K. If they would have given a rats backside about civilian/public sales years ago they would not be having these issues. I know I have personally cost them between 4-6 K worth of revenue by talking people out of buying their stuff and steering them towards other companies and support the civilian firearms market better. Care to give some specific examples of their attitude, please? |
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Posted: 10/16/2009 4:07:09 PM
H&K are just pissed because ARI beat them to the punch.
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Posted: 10/19/2009 1:25:29 AM
I don't care for this whole mess and I wish ATI would have won the lawsuit. I know that there is a limit on patents. Why isn't there some for the looks of MP5's. Didn't they steal the design from the Spanish's CETME first? Not that the roller locking system has any influence on the GSG since its a blowback .22 lr design with some cool looks.
ATI while I love my AK's and will most likely pick up a 1911 .22 I would like to see more .22 versions of guns that you just can't find anymore. AK's are around but I haven't seen a galil or .22 UZI, mac 10, UMP or the best idea would be one that never made because they lost the war the SG-44. Any of these would be nice plinker guns to see again even in the .22 form. I finally got my MP5 even though it was through no fault of my own it turns out the makers of them don't trust the civilian market. So be it, spend all your money on law suits. I just hope that you license ATI to make a gun in your MP5's likeness even though its as old a design as the M-16 and its roots go back to before WWII which would make it an antique firearm. |
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Mosin_Nagant
Lost all my boats in a tragic gun accident
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Posted: 11/22/2009 4:44:02 AM
[Last Edit: 11/22/2009 4:53:33 AM by Mosin_Nagant]
I think the only reason HK is going after every little toy and paintball gun that looks like an MP5, is so that they can have a legitimate case against their prime target, ATI. A judge could say, "Well, why are you suing ATI, and not so-and-so for doing the same thing?".
I'm not siding with HK, nor ATI. But I can see HK's side of this, the only reason I bought a GSG-5 over a .22lr upper was because it looks like an MP5, and I can't afford the real thing. I know if I made a very popular, and expensive firearm I would be mad if someone if someone else used my design to sell their own cheaper version.
I think HK would be better suited making their own version to compete with the GSG-5, rather than a lawsuit. Being that the GSG-5 is wildly popular, the market is already defined, and all they would need to do is make a comparable version to compete with.
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Ghost-Shooter
High drag, low speed, but armed to the teeth!
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Posted: 11/22/2009 11:24:10 AM
HK has never viewed the civilian market with anything less than disdain, as if mere civilians can't be trusted with their "fine" firearms. Screw them and the horse they rode in on. It's too bad they can't be sued for violating anti-trust laws or something like that, because, after all, that is what they are attempting to do. Instead of offering a competing product, they move to shut down all sales and offer nothing in its place.
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Ridge_Runner_5
Only person not killed by use of NcStar products
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Posted: 11/22/2009 5:26:05 PM
HK IS releasing a .22lr MP-5 as well as a couple others, made by Umarex (the people who made that M4 abortion). That is probably why they are forcing GSG to stop selling them in the US. So there is no competition in the market...
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TRIDENT1982
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Posted: 11/22/2009 9:56:29 PM
Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter:
HK has never viewed the civilian market with anything less than disdain, as if mere civilians can't be trusted with their "fine" firearms. Screw them and the horse they rode in on. It's too bad they can't be sued for violating anti-trust laws or something like that, because, after all, that is what they are attempting to do. Instead of offering a competing product, they move to shut down all sales and offer nothing in its place. I'll second that notion on the floor, and precede to strike HK from any damn gun conversation i ever have!!!! If they just simply had a gun of there own that was in direct comp. with ATI/GSG than it would make a little since, but since this(lawsuit) was sprung well before i at least ever sniffed a rumor of them a there own .22lr mp5......HATERS if you ask me! |
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TRIDENT1982
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Joined: Mar 2009 AL, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2009 10:00:52 PM
Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
screw H&K. If they would have given a rats backside about civilian/public sales years ago they would not be having these issues. ATI delivered a product the public likes and will buy based in a void in the market left by HK. HK's design is decades old and really the only beef HK has is that it looks like the same gun, despite being a completely different animal. If only I could boycott HK, I would. But after refusing to sell the 416 to lowly civilians I sold all my HK stuff and vowed that I would kiss Rosie O'Donnells fat, stinking ass before I'd ever buy another HK. So I can't boycott them. I *CAN* however influence other shooters. I teach concealed weapons permit classes, I am also an NRA certified instructor who spends lots of time with the young, impressionable youth in the scouting program. I am also shooting coordinator at a local range as well as being my company's "gun guy" as well as my church's "gun guy". I will continue to talk anyone and everyone I can out of buying HK crap. The scouts specifically, when they shoot the GSG5 and like it want to know the history of the gun etc. I explain the MP5 and how it's a visual clone of the gun and explain that it's good companies like GSG and ATI exist so you can buy that stuff because HK would not want us owning them and refuse to sell some guns to civilians. The scouts universally agree that sucks. so I will continue my little one man crusade to take a small chunk out of HK whenever and wherever I can. I know it won't matter to HK at all, but it makes me happy. I know I have personally cost them between 4-6 K worth of revenue by talking people out of buying their stuff and steering them towards other companies and support the civilian firearms market better. eventually the wars will stop, and .mil sales will slow down or dry up, and HK will be courting civilians more, well they can suck rocks. screw HK. ITS NOW A 2 MAN ARMY HOMEY!!! Just tell me the beat and i'll be marching |
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Posted: 11/25/2009 8:15:06 PM
Its two totally different types of guns! Its bullshit! Are they going to sue everyone who makes a semi-auto handgun cause they all look like the USP..... or maybe colt should sue HK for the 416.....
get off your high horse HK! Make a MP5 for civi's and they'll buy it, I can guarantee it! But HK doesn't even make anything comparable that we can buy. |
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Posted: 11/30/2009 9:41:07 PM
Wouldn't this fall into the same category as the AR-15?? Did Armalite and/or Stoner ( i think that was his name) sue Colt and the other thousand companies that make AR-15 copies?? Am I missing something here??
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l1a1man
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Joined: Mar 2005 UT, USA
Posts: 3682 Feedback: 100% (102) Link To This Post |
Posted: 2/10/2010 12:38:52 AM
Honestly, I will never buy another HK product as long as I live. Have sold off every HK I owned. Gun companys should not be doing this to each other and especially based on looks. Come on, that is BS.
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Posted: 2/10/2010 12:47:20 AM
[Last Edit: 2/10/2010 12:47:44 AM by DLaw]
Originally Posted By Speedinc:
Its two totally different types of guns! Its bullshit! Are they going to sue everyone who makes a semi-auto handgun cause they all look like the USP..... or maybe colt should sue HK for the 416..... get off your high horse HK! Make a MP5 for civi's and they'll buy it, I can guarantee it! But HK doesn't even make anything comparable that we can buy. Exactly! They make the 416 a copy of an AR and that's ok, but don't you dare do the same to them oh no.. Bastards |
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Posted: 12/14/2010 1:25:16 PM
HK is full of s$%^.
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Posted: 12/14/2010 1:33:56 PM
Originally Posted By DLaw:
I agree...HK are a bunch of hypocrites.
Originally Posted By Speedinc:
Its two totally different types of guns! Its bullshit! Are they going to sue everyone who makes a semi-auto handgun cause they all look like the USP..... or maybe colt should sue HK for the 416..... get off your high horse HK! Make a MP5 for civi's and they'll buy it, I can guarantee it! But HK doesn't even make anything comparable that we can buy. Exactly! They make the 416 a copy of an AR and that's ok, but don't you dare do the same to them oh no.. Bastards |
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Posted: 12/23/2010 2:51:32 PM
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
....but....are any of the H&K supporters willing to throw in comment wise here? I already did................... 
No one is a bigger kool-aid drinker for H&K than *I* am. They build THE best handguns in the world, bar none! Having said that, they screwed the pooch when they got left behind on the GSG series. Much as when Federal Ordnance, etc. came out with the G3 rifle copies for 1/4 or less than what a real H&K rifle would cost, H&K could've subbed out some mfg work to do the same but didn't. 
Heck, even Armalite made their Eagle brand AR's for a long time as a cheaper alternative to their name brand AR-10's. Now there's other .308 AR makers & I don't see Armalite sueing DPMS or whomever...................
Anyone with the sense of a gnat knows that there's no comparasion between the GSG-5L & the MP5. Do they look similiar? Certainly. Do the work the same? Are the internals the same or even similiar? Obviously we all know that question. I own multiple H&K's & will never part with them. Having said that, I think their lawsuit is nothing more than them getting butthurt by their engineering & marketing staff by missing the boat on making an affordable .22 cal version. Tough titty said the kitty, as we used to say in the Marines. Tell 'em to go pound sound IMO. My .o2 its pound sand btw  |
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