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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:36:03 PM EDT
[#1]
It sounds like their upper is not designed to handle mil-spec ammo to me. You may want to look into reloading.
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Posted: 10/25/2015 7:50:51 PM EDT
[#2]
I emailed them to see what they have to say. So far I only see conjecture but nothing for sure.
It just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't make the uppers to handle mil-spec loads..... It really doesn't... Mike B |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 9:20:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Either way, reloading your own ammo will pay for itself if you look around for a good deal especially at the prices that you quoted. In 1k rounds you will have paid for your setup and saved some cash.
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Posted: 10/25/2015 9:33:58 PM EDT
[#4]
When the Cobb50 first hit the market I know two guys that bought them. Both of them had problems with factory ammo.
Their idea was to reload! No plan for factory ammo, they told one guy that the ammo had to be loaded at a certain FPS. What that was they couldn't come up with an answer! So yeah, some of these companies have no idea when it comes to factory ammo. There is no SAAMI spec for 50 BMG and factory as in MIL Spec can be as high as 240 grs. +/- a few grains. Then you throw in different powder types and you have a recipe for disaster. If a company says don't use xyz type of ammo, don't! When it comes to the 50 you have a grenade next to your face. Tempting fate with your life isn't worth it in my book. Be safe! |
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Posted: 10/25/2015 9:58:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Just bring a long dowel and hammer to pound the brass back out if you do try. I never tried it when I had mine but others have posted stuck brass. Just to hot from what I have read. I reloaded with no issues. 215 gr of WC860 or 210 grains of H50BMG is what I used. Its definately worth reloading if you own a 50BMG. Got my cost down to around $1.50 per round.
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Posted: 10/25/2015 11:47:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the Cobb50 first hit the market I know two guys that bought them. Both of them had problems with factory ammo. Their idea was to reload! No plan for factory ammo, they told one guy that the ammo had to be loaded at a certain FPS. What that was they couldn't come up with an answer! So yeah, some of these companies have no idea when it comes to factory ammo. There is no SAAMI spec for 50 BMG and factory as in MIL Spec can be as high as 240 grs. +/- a few grains. Then you throw in different powder types and you have a recipe for disaster. If a company says don't use xyz type of ammo, don't! When it comes to the 50 you have a grenade next to your face. Tempting fate with your life isn't worth it in my book. Be safe! That's the thing, Safety Harbor has nothing on their web site, nor in their included documentation with the upper that states "no factory loads" or "no American eagle" or "no mil-spec ammo".... nothing like that at all.... I would not have bought it if they did... I emailed them earlier today, I hope to have a response back tomorrow and i'll post it up. Mike B |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 12:17:40 AM EDT
[#7]
That's gonna be an interesting reply, I know there's plenty of guys waiting to hear that.
I thought that someone posted that they had a warning on their website about Federal ammo. I know it's hotter than other ammo and my reloads. I can feel it and tell by the way my muzzle brake rings when I shoot it. I'm not worried because I'm shooting it out of an AR-50, I don't think I would shoot it in a SH upper. If you get a reply, please post it here. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 12:46:05 AM EDT
[#8]
this is all they have on their website in their FAQ section:
Q: What ammo do you recommend and what ammo should be avoided?
A: First thing we reccomend is not buying large quanities of one ammo brand before trying it in the rifle. Buy a box (10 rounds) try it out in the rifle - making sure it fires and extracts normally. The fired rounds should extract from the chamber without having to beat the bolt handle open. If a fired round (empty case) is stuck in the chamber use a cleaning rod to tap the stuck empty case loose. A sad fact about .50 BMG ammo is its all over the board when it comes to case sizing, brass hardness and primers - this affects extraction, chambering rounds and general operation of the rifles. Lately the "Federal American Eagle " brand ammo has been troublesome when it comes to extraction. We dont reccomend it due to this issue. nothing stated about it running too hot for the firearm. this is bothersome, because isn't ALL Federal American Eagle ammo produced at Lake City? so wouldn't that make all MilSurp ammo unsafe troublesome to shoot? |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 1:38:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this is all they have on their website in their FAQ section:
nothing stated about it running too hot for the firearm. this is bothersome, because isn't ALL Federal American Eagle ammo produced at Lake City? so wouldn't that make all MilSurp ammo unsafe to shoot? Quote HistoryQuoted: this is all they have on their website in their FAQ section:
Q: What ammo do you recommend and what ammo should be avoided?
A: First thing we reccomend is not buying large quanities of one ammo brand before trying it in the rifle. Buy a box (10 rounds) try it out in the rifle - making sure it fires and extracts normally. The fired rounds should extract from the chamber without having to beat the bolt handle open. If a fired round (empty case) is stuck in the chamber use a cleaning rod to tap the stuck empty case loose. A sad fact about .50 BMG ammo is its all over the board when it comes to case sizing, brass hardness and primers - this affects extraction, chambering rounds and general operation of the rifles. Lately the "Federal American Eagle " brand ammo has been troublesome when it comes to extraction. We dont reccomend it due to this issue. nothing stated about it running too hot for the firearm. this is bothersome, because isn't ALL Federal American Eagle ammo produced at Lake City? so wouldn't that make all MilSurp ammo unsafe to shoot? They didn't say it was unsafe. They said it was troublesome when it comes to extraction. It could be the recent lots have brass that is too ductile, and thus sticks to the chamber walls harder. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 4:35:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They didn't say it was unsafe. They said it was troublesome when it comes to extraction. It could be the recent lots have brass that is too ductile, and thus sticks to the chamber walls harder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: this is all they have on their website in their FAQ section:
Q: What ammo do you recommend and what ammo should be avoided?
A: First thing we reccomend is not buying large quanities of one ammo brand before trying it in the rifle. Buy a box (10 rounds) try it out in the rifle - making sure it fires and extracts normally. The fired rounds should extract from the chamber without having to beat the bolt handle open. If a fired round (empty case) is stuck in the chamber use a cleaning rod to tap the stuck empty case loose. A sad fact about .50 BMG ammo is its all over the board when it comes to case sizing, brass hardness and primers - this affects extraction, chambering rounds and general operation of the rifles. Lately the "Federal American Eagle " brand ammo has been troublesome when it comes to extraction. We dont reccomend it due to this issue. nothing stated about it running too hot for the firearm. this is bothersome, because isn't ALL Federal American Eagle ammo produced at Lake City? so wouldn't that make all MilSurp ammo unsafe to shoot? They didn't say it was unsafe. They said it was troublesome when it comes to extraction. It could be the recent lots have brass that is too ductile, and thus sticks to the chamber walls harder. I know that it is definitely sticky in my Serbu bfg as well as my friends ar50 |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 12:32:57 PM EDT
[#11]
so is the Federal American Eagle the same as milsurp? I thought the American Eagle used Lake City Brass? It's starting to sound like a problem with that ammunition itself....
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Posted: 10/26/2015 1:17:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes, it's made by Lake City.
So I'm sure it comes off the same line that all the other LC ammo comes from. Not sure what Keith Pagel can add to this. He's the .50 ammo guru, I can ask him and post here. I know he's talked about it before. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 2:00:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Exibar,
Have you Mic'd your muzzle brake? If not, please do to be sure you have the right size. Make sure the exit hole is a little bigger than .510. Don't want a repeat of that mistake, one owner got a .408 CT brake on his. The video was scary and his post was heated as can be expected. Be safe. Waiting to hear from Keith unless he posts hear. If he does, keep your reply on topic as he doesn't have time to go off on a tangent and it usually pissed him off if people start to doubt his experience. He's the man when it comes to .50 ammo and will help out as long as you listen to what he tells you. I've been friends with him for years and if he's tells me something I listen. |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 9:16:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exibar, Have you Mic'd your muzzle brake? If not, please do to be sure you have the right size. Make sure the exit hole is a little bigger than .510. Don't want a repeat of that mistake, one owner got a .408 CT brake on his. The video was scary and his post was heated as can be expected. Be safe. Waiting to hear from Keith unless he posts hear. If he does, keep your reply on topic as he doesn't have time to go off on a tangent and it usually pissed him off if people start to doubt his experience. He's the man when it comes to .50 ammo and will help out as long as you listen to what he tells you. I've been friends with him for years and if he's tells me something I listen. Yup, I've checked the Muzzle brake size and its over .510... don't remember the exact size but I think it was .525... I'll double check though just to be sure. I thought the Incorrect Muzzle Brake was for a different make of 50 upper though.... but in any case it made me nervous enough to check mine to be sure ;-) Keith is certainly the man when it comes to the 50... I've read each of his posts and treat them as Gospel for sure. something that Keith mentions about the 50 wouldn't' be conjecture or hear-say, I'd take it as fact for sure :-) Mike B |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 9:21:07 PM EDT
[#15]
I will most likely eventualy reload for the .50. I reload for my other rifles and pistols.... However the dies are twice the price (or more), the primers are ridiculously expensive so I was hoping to shoot some factory ammo first and simply use that brass to help fill the gap between now and the time I reload. Depends how much I shoot it too... I shoot the AR's quite a bit with my family and reload quite a bit, but with the 50 it's almost like starting from scratch reloading :-( I'm not even sure if my RCBS rockchucker will handle the dies for the 50BMG
Mike B |
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Posted: 10/26/2015 10:45:13 PM EDT
[#16]
I'd watch out for Survival Ops ammo. I've shot stuff from Freedom Munitions, Survival Ops, PMC and American Eagle. Survival Ops is the only ammo that has stuck in my Barrett 99. That's kind of surprising since it is loaded a little lighter than the AE. It averaged about 100 fps slower when I checked it.
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Posted: 10/27/2015 10:44:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Can you partially flute a 50 cal chamber? Maybe a solution to the stuck brass issues.
Wes |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:41:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Serbu recommends lightly oiling the cases on his bfg-50a. It solved the extraction problem for me with this ammo. He is not worried about bolt strength.
The ammo is either soft, dirty, hot, or a combo of all 3. My buddy's M82 had no problem extracting the same ammo. The next post after mine will be screaming "don't oil your cases". I trust the gun designer. YMMV. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 1:07:55 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm pretty sure the owner/designer of the Harris Gun Works semi auto .50 says to lightly oil or wax the ammo.
That's the best way to keep it running without any problems. Doesn't mean dripping in oil, just a light coat. They've done this in the past with other gun designs from small to large. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 3:42:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the best way to keep it running without any problems. Doesn't mean dripping in oil, just a light coat. They've done this in the past with other gun designs from small to large. For the very short time I owned a Safety Harbor R-50, that was the only way each case would extract without extra efforts. IMO, for a 50 bolt rifle, that should not be necessary. My AR-50 extracts anything I feed in it without issue. It seems that if you spend a extra $1,000.00, you have more rifle and less, if any, problems. That's the lesson I learned about .50's very early on. |
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:21:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Ar50 have a chrome lined barrel?
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:27:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ar50 have a chrome lined barrel? NO |
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Posted: 10/28/2015 12:04:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Federal American Eagle shoots very good in my M82 also. I shot 70 rounds last week through it with not one issue. I was surprised for the cost, that is shot so well and was very happy with it out to 600 yards.
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Posted: 10/28/2015 6:12:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Walter from SHF here - this was my reply to the question about American Eagle ammo.
Mike, First thanks for purchasing our product……now American Eagle….all the American Eagle brand ammo is seconds off the military production lines. Doesn't make a difference if its 5.56 or .50BMG. Doesn't meet the military standard but passes commercial specs (even thats iffy sometimes). Catastrophic failure ? …I don't think so. I test fired last night with the AE stuff (zero extraction issues) . Extraction issues…yes there has been some with our uppers using the AE Brand. As of late we have been using a finishing reamer to slightly open the last 1" to 1 1/2" of the chamber on all our uppers. We found out that the chamber was tight towards the rear of the chamber - this has seemed to fix the AE sticking issues. Your upper should have had this done to it already. I recommend buying a box (10 rounds) and trying it out before making a large purchase. Hope this helped. Thanks Walter Keller |
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Posted: 10/28/2015 8:04:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Thank you very much for posting that reply here on the forums Walter!
I'm going to buy a box of AE ammo this weekend and I'll report if I have any stuck cases. I will say this, I inspected the chamber, and it looks real good ;-) I can't wait to shoot it! and if the AE ammo works well, it'll be super easy to find cheap ammo for me... heck Walmart sells the stuff LOL ;-) Mike B |
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Posted: 10/29/2015 1:01:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Okay, let's back up a minute.
First of all, not all of it is seconds! And by seconds or doesn't meet mil spec doesn't mean squat. By not passing DoD specs it could mean that the velocity was off a little, primers sealant missing or not enough. Blah blah blah, nothing with visible flaws that would cause a problem would leave the factory. If it's "iffy" why would you even think of shooting it in your multi thousands of dollars .50?! There's also no way Federal would take the chance of selling junk or "iffy" ammo. If they're running low, Lake City would just give them fresh off the press ammo. This instead of waiting for a batch that didn't meet DoD requirements. |
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Posted: 10/29/2015 5:16:44 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, let's back up a minute. First of all, not all of it is seconds! And by seconds or doesn't meet mil spec doesn't mean squat. By not passing DoD specs it could mean that the velocity was off a little, primers sealant missing or not enough. Blah blah blah, nothing with visible flaws that would cause a problem would leave the factory. If it's "iffy" why would you even think of shooting it in your multi thousands of dollars .50?! There's also no way Federal would take the chance of selling junk or "iffy" ammo. If they're running low, Lake City would just give them fresh off the press ammo. This instead of waiting for a batch that didn't meet DoD requirements. I think the point was AE ammo is made from components that were not acceptable or over run for the DOD. When he said "iffy" I am confident that he was referring to the powder charge not being quite as consistent from lot to lot because the AE ammo is often times a combination of left over DOD various contract components vs something like gold match ammo that's advertised to be loaded to near exacting specs from one lot to the next. Wes |
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Posted: 10/29/2015 12:53:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Yes but what I'm trying to keep from happening as in the case of SH uppers is to keep a broad brush from being swept over them.
If Walter says it's good to go in the SH upper, that's what guys want to hear. Taking even more steps by using a finishing reamer to make sure the chamber is good to go is another thing guys want to hear. But don't add that Federal ammo is "iffy" in the next sentence. It's either 100% in the upper or not, there's no in between. Having a case get stuck happens, no biggie it's happened with my reloads. I hope for him that the issue gets settled and SH stays on the market. Owners need to be reassured that this was a fluke thing. It's happened to other .50's and all but one took steps to rectify the issues. It was good to see that he came on the forum and posted info. |
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Posted: 10/29/2015 1:52:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Walter is the President of SH. His reply put my mind at rest for sure. What he says about Federal ammo is 100% true, it's seconds off the line that do not meet military standards, for *whatever* reasons.... and yah, there are about a zillion checks that go into assuring "milspec"... if the ammo doesn't meet one of those checks, it gets dumped on the civillian market.... Same as 5.56 ammo coming from LakeCity Shotgun news had a huge article 5 or 6 pages worth about Lake City ammo plant.
If Walter is saying the ammo is safe, I'm happy with that... but will test one box to see what my results are, just like I would in any other rifle I own / build. this is a great conversation to have guys, I'm glad that we're having it. Mike B |
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Posted: 11/1/2015 1:38:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Well, how did things go?
After action review, what do you have to share after shooting a box? |
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Posted: 11/1/2015 6:27:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Nice he answered you. When I emailed SH about the 2 kabooms of SH 50BMG rifles, I never got a response. I just wanted to know if it was operator error or something wrong with there rifles. I never had issues with mine but sold it due to health issues. All I wanted was some kind of a response.
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Posted: 11/3/2015 2:37:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, how did things go? After action review, what do you have to share after shooting a box? haven't had a chance to get to the range yet and I'm still building the rifle.... have all the parts, just have to assemble and find 2 hours of free time to head to the range.... couple weeks I should have an update :-) |
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Posted: 11/4/2015 5:52:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, let's back up a minute. First of all, not all of it is seconds! And by seconds or doesn't meet mil spec doesn't mean squat. By not passing DoD specs it could mean that the velocity was off a little, primers sealant missing or not enough. Blah blah blah, nothing with visible flaws that would cause a problem would leave the factory. If it's "iffy" why would you even think of shooting it in your multi thousands of dollars .50?! There's also no way Federal would take the chance of selling junk or "iffy" ammo. If they're running low, Lake City would just give them fresh off the press ammo. This instead of waiting for a batch that didn't meet DoD requirements. I will post some pics of ammo that is bent right out of the box. As of yesterday, we will not be running anymore American Eagle ammo out of ANY of our Barrett's. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 11/4/2015 7:01:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Was there any damage to the boxes/cases that were holding the ammo?
Yeah, please do post them as I would like to see them also. Thanks! |
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Posted: 11/4/2015 7:06:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was there any damage to the boxes/cases that were holding the ammo? Yeah, please do post them as I would like to see them also. Thanks! Box was not damaged and my RSO's relayed to me that they've seen quite a few rounds like this. They notice more the inconsistencies of how high or low the projectile is loaded into the case. Again, this round is directly out of the box that pulled from an undamaged case. 
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Posted: 11/5/2015 3:33:38 PM EDT
[#36]
I've bought 200+ rounds of AE 50 BMG ammo. None of it has had any physical problems, even the ones that had damaged boxes. What head stamp is on that round? I would say that is round that somehow made it through the whole line. You claim another person has seen a bunch like that though.
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Posted: 11/6/2015 11:43:54 PM EDT
[#37]
I have had some AE extraction problems with a new SH mag upper. Was told the ammo is slightly hot and to try something else. No problems with Survival Ops ammo which is loaded slightly on the light side. Good luck with PMC ammo which I can find for fairly cheap. When new the chamber has some surface roughness that will smooth out overtime and any extraction problems should get better. Every type of 50 I have shot from 3 different manufactures have stuck an occasional brass. A wooden extraction dowel should be part of your 50 kit and works surprisingly well to remove a stubborn brass. I bought a 7/16ths (I think) and put a .45 ACP brass on the end of it for my homemade tool. A light tap with a rubber mallet and the brass pops right out. It sounds like SH has addressed the tight chamber problem.
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Posted: 11/17/2015 12:38:32 AM EDT
[#38]
About once a year I get my SH upper out to the range and put a box of AE through it.
The first box or two was tough extractions, really had to yank on the handle, But another 50 rounds no problems. |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 10:07:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Any update OP? I just jumped on the sweet deal they are running this weekend at SHF and I'm sitting on a couple cases of AE rounds...
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Posted: 11/29/2015 2:50:38 AM EDT
[#40]
I passed a box of 10 rounds through my upper, without a glitch :-) I think I'm ok with AE federal going forward!
we'll see how the second box goes, LOL ;-) Mike B |
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