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Page Armory » 50 Cal
Posted: 1/9/2015 2:56:46 AM EDT

Picked up some 50BMG from a friend of a friend. Have a chance to get more, just wanted to confirm what it was(seller is a gun guy who isn't detail oriented).


Bullet weight is 647.7gr with a lead base/cup. I don't see any sealant








Powder Charge is approximately 225.7gr. Doesn't look deteriorated at all:





It's LC brass marked 4 (so 1944). There appears to be crimps, but no sealant:








I assumed this is remanufactured 50MG using surplus brass and bullets? That powder looks in too good of shape to be super old, and is under the known 235gr charge of M33 Ball.


Link Posted: 1/9/2015 4:47:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 1/9/2015 3:10:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Usually the API bullets I use ar 647 grain and the M-33 a  bit more.  It looks to me like an API without the silver tip.  Shoot one at a safe steel target to see if it flashes but be careful about fire.  It's easy for me to say that because I live in the country and can shoot my 50 from the front porch.  I've got tractor tires setting in my pasture 100 yards from the front yard that stop anything I shoot at them.  I replace them about every 5 or 6 years.
Link Posted: 1/9/2015 4:51:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Projectile is ball.  M33, specifically.  Lead base plug, knurled crimp cannelure, 647 grains are the indicators.  Definitely a reload, not factory.  no case mouth sealant and headstamp are dead giveaway.  Also primer crimps have been removed as has the primer sealant.  

LC 1944 production doesn't match M33 Ball.  1st year of M33 Ball was 1951.
Link Posted: 1/10/2015 12:53:14 AM EDT
[#4]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Projectile is ball.  M33, specifically.  Lead base plug, knurled crimp cannelure, 647 grains are the indicators.  Definitely a reload, not factory.  no case mouth sealant and headstamp are dead giveaway.  Also primer crimps have been removed as has the primer sealant.  



LC 1944 production doesn't match M33 Ball.  1st year of M33 Ball was 1951.
View Quote
Thanks. I was wondering what the first year of M33 production was. I'll ask the seller what he was shooting them out of. Powder charge seems on par with a safe/max load for 50BMG bolt/semi gun.



 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 11:15:00 PM EDT
[#5]
I pulled some Talon apart the other day. Similar powder, and the talon charge was 231gr. I'm going to buy more of it :D
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 11:56:48 PM EDT
[#6]
You can get a copper tubeing cutter and cut it in half and see if its a mild steel or harden steel core. If you see powder its a api like this pic.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 11:55:21 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm assuming based on the 647gr and lead base cap it's M33, but I've got a pipe cutter :D
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 12:51:06 AM EDT
[#8]
For those that havent cut them apart here is a comparison of hardened (top)vs mild(bottom) steel cores.

Link Posted: 1/27/2015 10:38:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You can get a copper tubeing cutter and cut it in half and see if its a mild steel or harden steel core. If you see powder its a api like this pic.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/ARsR4ME/2012-04-06155422.jpg
View Quote

Where is this powder located with in the bullet and is it known what type and wright it is?
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 11:45:29 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Where is this powder located with in the bullet and is it known what type and wright it is?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can get a copper tubeing cutter and cut it in half and see if its a mild steel or harden steel core. If you see powder its a api like this pic.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/ARsR4ME/2012-04-06155422.jpg

Where is this powder located with in the bullet and is it known what type and wright it is?


If i recall, it was all in the front nose. I didn't measure the weight. Sorry.
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 1:21:22 AM EDT
[#11]

okay so I took the pipe cutter to one of the rounds and found silver/gray powder in the nose. Does that make it incendiary? These were all 647gr.


I cut a talon one apart, and found the same silver powder in the front.





Talon on top, and the original ammo bottom:











Both had powders that looked like this:











I thought M33 had a lead nose, or was it not a solid nose?


Link Posted: 1/28/2015 1:50:27 AM EDT
[#12]
So both had powder inside. Humm, one of the more tech guys are gonna have to weigh in on that. My fmj's didnt have any, only my api's. Maybe its a filler. Im curios myself now.
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 1:54:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 4:13:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Should be a lead filler in the tips of the ball bullets.
View Quote


And it should be distinguishable from the api powder right?
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 4:30:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For those that havent cut them apart here is a comparison of hardened (top)vs mild(bottom) steel cores.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/ARsR4ME/20150126_224113_zpsb8ad211d.jpg
View Quote


So the mind steel cores have the "band" around it near the bottom while hardened ones are flat? I have two cores I've recovered from two different days and yardages. Both were shot at the same steel plate. The first one was stuck in the plate and mushroomed. The second one I found sitting a few feet in front of the plate. Other than erosion from what I assume was caused by the sandy soil here, it is intact. I also found a couple of the copper jackets in front on the plate.
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 10:36:08 AM EDT
[#16]

Both of mine have a standard knurled cannelure on them as well. I wonder if my PMI gun at work can detect what type of powder that is.


In both cases that powder was easily scraped off, and is very fine.


Link Posted: 1/28/2015 10:56:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So the mind steel cores have the "band" around it near the bottom while hardened ones are flat? I have two cores I've recovered from two different days and yardages. Both were shot at the same steel plate. The first one was stuck in the plate and mushroomed. The second one I found sitting a few feet in front of the plate. Other than erosion from what I assume was caused by the sandy soil here, it is intact. I also found a couple of the copper jackets in front on the plate.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
For those that havent cut them apart here is a comparison of hardened (top)vs mild(bottom) steel cores.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/ARsR4ME/20150126_224113_zpsb8ad211d.jpg


So the mind steel cores have the "band" around it near the bottom while hardened ones are flat? I have two cores I've recovered from two different days and yardages. Both were shot at the same steel plate. The first one was stuck in the plate and mushroomed. The second one I found sitting a few feet in front of the plate. Other than erosion from what I assume was caused by the sandy soil here, it is intact. I also found a couple of the copper jackets in front on the plate.


The easiest way for me to tell the difference was the api core had a sharper point and didnt scratch when i used a hacksaw on it like the mild core. Are they all like that... I dont know.
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 9:51:58 PM EDT
[#18]
M2 Ball (WW2) is lead point filler inside the bullet, no base plug, the jacket just wraps around the base.

M33 Ball (current) has an inert point filler, monosodium carbonate powder or some such, inside the bullet tip with a lead base plug.

M8 API (silver tip) has incendiary powder in the inside of the point of the bullet and a lead base plug.

As to cores, All ball is soft steel, APx (AP, API, etc) is hard core.  The ball has a groove around the core which is the result of the bullet cannelure being "rolled" into bullet after it's assembled, the knurled cannelure.  AP is too hard a core to roll a cannelure into the bullet, so it's cut (smooth cannelure).  That means no groove around the core.

The knurled cannelure, the lead base plug and the weight of the original poster's bullet means M33 Ball.  (Confirmed by the point filler and groove in the bullet core)
Link Posted: 1/29/2015 12:30:37 AM EDT
[#19]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


M2 Ball (WW2) is lead point filler inside the bullet, no base plug, the jacket just wraps around the base.



M33 Ball (current) has an inert point filler, monosodium carbonate powder or some such, inside the bullet tip with a lead base plug.



M8 API (silver tip) has incendiary powder in the inside of the point of the bullet and a lead base plug.



As to cores, All ball is soft steel, APx (AP, API, etc) is hard core.  The ball has a groove around the core which is the result of the bullet cannelure being "rolled" into bullet after it's assembled, the knurled cannelure.  AP is too hard a core to roll a cannelure into the bullet, so it's cut (smooth cannelure).  That means no groove around the core.



The knurled cannelure, the lead base plug and the weight of the original poster's bullet means M33 Ball.  (Confirmed by the point filler and groove in the bullet core)
View Quote
Thanks for the Info Keith! :D



 
Page Armory » 50 Cal
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