Zel customs / Tactilite uppers are DANGEROUS!!! - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Zel customs / Tactilite uppers are DANGEROUS!!! (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 9/16/2014 12:30:28 PM EDT

I am writing today heartbroken and disappointed. I ordered a pretty new Zel Custom 50bmg upper and when it arrived I was handling it and the bolt handle SNAPPED OFF when I struck it with the heel of my hand to get it to open (bolt was sticky initially). So I wrote Zel customs and they said they would send out the better "heavy duty" bolt handle and that other one broke due to being mishandled during heat treating. Ok, ok, no harm no foul... Just as long as all critical components weren't "mishandled" too. 4 days later when it arrived I took the rifle out for its first firing.

KABOOM!!!

I looked around to see what the hell just happened because that was too loud to be a normal shot and the target was unscathed. I looked over the gun, everything looked ok right up until the muzzle break. That sucker was blown up pretty good. Raw video footage is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1dsNzgxqQI I am sorry if I sound a bit like I was babbling but I was a little shaken from the event. I guess I was asking for it when I joked about blowing my face off or getting the bolt lodged in my shoulder. I was just joking with my wife and camerawoman about the bolt handle that had snapped off the week prior.

Posted: 9/16/2014 12:46:14 PM EDT

[#1]

fify

for mobile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1dsNzgxqQI

Posted: 9/16/2014 12:49:44 PM EDT

[#2]

(spoiler alert)
They installed a 416 Barrett muzzle break on the upper and the 642gr moving at 2700fps bullet didn't quite fit.

I was totally set to be a Zel Customs fanboy and sing their praises, but how can you be after this. By cutting corners and not using proper materials, assembly techniques and inspecting the firearms before they leave the shop they have totally burned me and I am going to save pennies to get a Barrett M99 or AR50 instead. I'm so disheartened that this didn't work out. I wanted so badly to add this rifle to my collection.

Posted: 9/16/2014 1:10:58 PM EDT

[#3]

Ouch. Glad you're okay.

Posted: 9/16/2014 1:18:06 PM EDT

[#4]

I feel sorry that this happened to you. Glad you didn't get hurt.

Posted: 9/16/2014 1:45:35 PM EDT

[#5]

That is a hell of a mistake to make.

Posted: 9/16/2014 2:28:08 PM EDT

[#6]

While this is a very dangerous mistake and one that should not have happened, That being said any company can make mistakes, Did you let them know what happened and if so how did they treat you?

The real test of a company is how they stand be hing the product when something does go wrong.

If you have not contacted them how about giving them a chance to make this right for you then come back and let us know how it turned out.

Posted: 9/16/2014 6:00:07 PM EDT

[#7]

Oh I let them know they screwed up. They said it must have been a mix up after they got it back from being creakoted. But after the bolt handle broke just working it, and now this.... I don't trust anything they've had their dudes work on. I'm getting a refund and thats it. I told them they should consider the 15k joules of energy this sucker is packing and how huge of boo-boo this was. Had it come apart much more dramatically someone could have died. They seemed like "eh" and just told me they might not use a special 416 brake anymore. I saved for months for this upper, paid almost $2k for it and this is what I got. So if you have one and it works great, if you're saving for one I would recommend another brand until they get their stuff sorted out. I can't imagine how they managed to ship it without checking it over. I know its not really a "firearm" and so they aren't a firearm manufacturer, but it is a firearm, the business part and this was an example of gross negligence on their part.

I just thought I'd try to spend my money on a novel looking US brand and support a small gun industry company. Guess that was a mistake.

If you haven't seen the video of the guy who almost died taking an OOBD from a 50bmg its brutal. he had a bolt lodged in his shoulder and was ruined by it. This is serious physics kids, not an airsoft gun. That is why I'm so upset.

Posted: 9/16/2014 6:30:57 PM EDT

[#8]

I really wanted these to be safe but now I am not sure.

I know this is an upper but shouldn't they be fire testing these things… just saying.

Posted: 9/16/2014 6:34:32 PM EDT

[#9]

There is no excuse for this crap. Your lucky to be alive. You need to contact ATF or whoever regulates the firearm industries and show them the video. If you don't report this, could happen again and possibly a death. I'm not one to recommend legal action but this one might be warranted to insure shit like this doesn't happen again. Piss poor QC!

Posted: 9/16/2014 11:14:59 PM EDT

[#10]

I thought tactilite were no weld uppers?

Posted: 9/16/2014 11:22:35 PM EDT

[#11]

So I guess Accuracy International and Barrett are out as well.........

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I recently re-certified as a M16 armorer and the the instructor this time was a former ATF agent who did forensic examinations of firearms. The very first thing he spoke about as a responsibility for all armorers is to do a thorough examination of any firearm prior to it being fired for the first time. To make his point he opened up some of his files to show us guns from several major manufacturer that had come from the factory with mismatched parts. For instance receivers that were marked one caliber but mated with barrels that were of another. Most of the examples were variations of AR15's due to the vast amount of options that are available and that most of the parts look alike. I make this point not because I would expect you to do an armorer level inspection as that probably isn't something you are trained to do, but to say that even the big companies make mistakes.

There is not a single manufacturer that hasn't had a recall at one point or another. Colt, Barrett, Accuracy International, Glock, Smith & Wesson.........they have all had guns that had some type of catastrophic failure. How may people here still drive Toyota's with gas pedals that stick, or Fords that spontaneously com bust, or GM's that have issues with the ignitions?

The issue with this gun should not have happened. That is correct. But that does not make this firearm any more dangerous than any of the others. In fact, the rifle had a major breakage but the critical areas of the firearm are still intact. Zel Custom is a very small company and they are sure to learn from this and come out with a better product and better manufacturing process.

Posted: 9/16/2014 11:42:36 PM EDT

[#12]

Good point uniquesnd things can happen to anyone. It is too bad and someone needs a but chewing at Zel and Co. My best friend recently died and his widow is trying to sell some of his 120 guns. A friend wanted to purchase his 300 Blackout with a stainless barrel just like mine. Unknown to me, his wife or anyone else my friend had swapped the flash hider from his 300 black out and put it on his 6.8 barrel. The barrels are not marked with the caliber which is a problem that I'm starting to see with a lot of AR-15 uppers. Anyway the friend that purchased what he thought was a 300 Blackout ended up with a 6.8 and a 300 Blackout will chamber and fire in a AR-15 with a 6.8 barrel on it. It squeezed that .308 bullet right through the 6.8 barrel and the brass told him WHOOPS! We got the problem fixed and we were lucky no one was hurt. As for the Zel OH Shucks! There is an old saying in the Air Force. "It takes a lot of attaboys to make up for an Oh Shit". We all need to look closer on inspection of everything we purchase to shoot. Watch out for others mistakes.

Posted: 9/17/2014 12:06:47 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
So I guess Accuracy International and Barrett are out as well.........

http://<a href=http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a20/BB493/50bmgrifle_zps217ea2ce.jpg</a>" />

http://<a href=http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a20/BB493/Barrett11277489225_zps30522278.jpg</a>" />

I recently re-certified as a M16 armorer and the the instructor this time was a former ATF agent who did forensic examinations of firearms. The very first thing he spoke about as a responsibility for all armorers is to do a thorough examination of any firearm prior to it being fired for the first time. To make his point he opened up some of his files to show us guns from several major manufacturer that had come from the factory with mismatched parts. For instance receivers that were marked one caliber but mated with barrels that were of another. Most of the examples were variations of AR15's due to the vast amount of options that are available and that most of the parts look alike. I make this point not because I would expect you to do an armorer level inspection as that probably isn't something you are trained to do, but to say that even the big companies make mistakes.

There is not a single manufacturer that hasn't had a recall at one point or another. Colt, Barrett, Accuracy International, Glock, Smith & Wesson.........they have all had guns that had some type of catastrophic failure. How may people here still drive Toyota's with gas pedals that stick, or Fords that spontaneously com bust, or GM's that have issues with the ignitions?

The issue with this gun should not have happened. That is correct. But that does not make this firearm any more dangerous than any of the others. In fact, the rifle had a major breakage but the critical areas of the firearm are still intact. Zel Custom is a very small company and they are sure to learn from this and come out with a better product and better manufacturing process.

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^ I couldn't have made this point any better.

Posted: 9/17/2014 12:11:04 AM EDT

[#14]

Then again, why not request to have test fire those uppers. hell, I would have the QC guys do it. That way whoever fires that thing for the first time would make damn sure everything fits...

Posted: 9/17/2014 12:17:22 AM EDT

[#15]

Just makes me glad that I've decided to save up for a McMillan instead of the cheap instant 50 uppers that keep hitting the market and turning out to be dangerous in either materials or workmanship.

Good luck getting your money back.

Posted: 9/17/2014 12:27:01 AM EDT

[#16]

Man .50BMG scares me. So many kaboom stories. Ill stick with 338 Lapua thank you.

Posted: 9/17/2014 9:51:52 AM EDT

[#17]

My buddy that's a certified welder shuddered when he saw the weld in the first pic. His remarks concerning it are unprintable.

Posted: 9/17/2014 10:57:20 AM EDT

[#18]

Lack of QC is what almost cost you an injury but it happens and isn't just them. Other companies make mistakes also, the only company that makes .50 uppers that hasn't had a failure is Spider Firearms Ferret 50. I can't believe they didn't test fire the upper before sending it out, this would've saved them the embarrassment of this hitting the internet.

Be thankful you're okay, people think that suing is the end of everything. Being injured is the worse part as firearm injuries can be deadly in the worse case, being maimed for life and in pain isn't worth any stack of money to me. If you venture back into the .50 world, post up your new rifle.

Posted: 9/17/2014 11:53:02 AM EDT

[#19]

I think from now own the only way Zel Customs comes out of this is by fire testing every single upper they produce and sending the shells with the upper upon purchase.

Having said that it is still going to be a long time before people looses the fear of shooting one of their uppers. I was considering one of their uppers with a match barrel, now I don't know.

We all know companies my have QC issues here and there, and that ultimately customer service is what determines whether we trust or not that company. However, to put the wrong muzzle break in a 50 bmg is a pretty f…ng stupid mistake which could have cost somebody's life.

It would be good to have somebody from Zel Customs chime in their two cents.

Posted: 9/17/2014 12:55:14 PM EDT

[#20]

I just bought it because there were ZERO negative reviews of it online. I'm not suing, just getting a refund. We've all hired an idiot on accident or been that idiot from time to time. I just wanted people to see that Zel Customs aren't perfect. And yes, that weld is horrendous looking, they even creakoted over some slag on the underside. But I used to work as an ironworker and have seen worse looking welds hold up buildings.

I know ALL gun manufacturers have issued recalls and made mistakes, but none of them caused a 50 cal to impact at arms length from me... so I'm a little biased.

I think they will use the opportunity to better refine their products and with time and experience emerge as a major player. But given my experience with the product, I'm going to buy another brand in the future.

In their defense they're customer service is decent and prompt. They fed ex'd the refund check out to me and it should show up today or tomorrow. They are also paying return shipping for the upper. The only issue I have is the quality control on this one rifle.

If I read this post I wouldn't be scared off I'd just be aware of what to check for and make a more informed purchase. Would that mean saving more money and buying a different brand? I don't know.

I guarantee they went out to their shop and checked all of the muzzle brakes after they talked to me though.

Posted: 9/17/2014 11:07:58 PM EDT

[#21]

"and that other one broke due to being mishandled during heat treating."

That's pretty darn scary

What if the bolt locking lugs were treated that way?? Guys will start getting killed or maimed.

Posted: 9/18/2014 1:06:46 AM EDT

[#22]

whew! Glad you're ok. And thanks for posting this.

Posted: 9/18/2014 10:27:12 AM EDT

[#23]

50-Shooter,

Thank you for making my day. To hear you say that the Spider Arms Ferret 50 has the safest track record, well it makes so glad that BOHICA screwed over the wait time and I decided to look again at other makers of a 50 BMG upper. I settled with a Ferret and over the years I am happier and happier that I ended up with it over any of the other uppers. Its a good looking upper. Fit and finish is supper. Have not had one bit of trouble with it. Punished it with a few shells that the powder had gone bad (They kicked like a mule and thought it would have almost busted the rifle. I have the 36" tube on it and thank you Dave for making the brake hand tightened and loosened. Cause the longest case I could find was a Pelican 1750 I think it is. You have to remove the brake in order to get it in the case. When others are having OOB KABOOMS, the Ferret was built to block the hammer up to the last few degrees of arc closing the bolt. Also the firing pin is camed (pulled back when opening the bolt). Thus if a primer pops and plasma wields to the bolt. You wont be able to open the bolt with the pin in the forward position. Then slam fire the next round (see OOB KABOOM).

And just to have someone I respect think that the Ferret is a good safe rifle, well I feel better about this purchase all of the time. Thanks

Posted: 9/20/2014 12:58:44 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
50-Shooter,

Thank you for making my day. To hear you say that the Spider Arms Ferret 50 has the safest track record, well it makes so glad that BOHICA screwed over the wait time and I decided to look again at other makers of a 50 BMG upper. I settled with a Ferret and over the years I am happier and happier that I ended up with it over any of the other uppers. Its a good looking upper. Fit and finish is supper. Have not had one bit of trouble with it. Punished it with a few shells that the powder had gone bad (They kicked like a mule and thought it would have almost busted the rifle. I have the 36" tube on it and thank you Dave for making the brake hand tightened and loosened. Cause the longest case I could find was a Pelican 1750 I think it is. You have to remove the brake in order to get it in the case. When others are having OOB KABOOMS, the Ferret was built to block the hammer up to the last few degrees of arc closing the bolt. Also the firing pin is camed (pulled back when opening the bolt). Thus if a primer pops and plasma wields to the bolt. You wont be able to open the bolt with the pin in the forward position. Then slam fire the next round (see OOB KABOOM).

And just to have someone I respect think that the Ferret is a good safe rifle, well I feel better about this purchase all of the time. Thanks

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I have to agree with this even though I am a 29er...With a Ferret...I have no fear of touching off over 220 grains of powder 3 inches from my face...

Get your money back and buy a Ferret upper.

Glad you were not injured...

Posted: 9/20/2014 8:07:22 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
(spoiler alert)
They installed a 416 Barrett muzzle break on the upper and the 642gr moving at 2700fps bullet didn't quite fit.
[

I was totally set to be a Zel Customs fanboy and sing their praises, but how can you be after this. By cutting corners and not using proper materials, assembly techniques and inspecting the firearms before they leave the shop they have totally burned me and I am going to save pennies to get a Barrett M99 or AR50 instead. I'm so disheartened that this didn't work out. I wanted so badly to add this rifle to my collection.

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No, no, no..
What you got was the customer custom fit extrusion model.
No extra charge

Seriously; I have never understood the AR15 adaptable uppers unless one is choosing to skip the BATFE paperwork. Thats the ONLY reason to go with a patchwork .50 BMG over one designed specifically for this massive cartridge.

Posted: 9/21/2014 1:28:03 AM EDT

[#26]

First let me say I am glad you are okay physically. I bet your mental state might be tested next time you pull the trigger on whatever 50 you end up buying to replace the Zel. My friend has a Barrett 99 and it's been a great gun with 100's of rounds down the pipe. I have 2 Safety Harbor uppers and I have to admit I always feel just a hair safer shooting the Barrett. There's just allot more metal there to contain the forces. I do a 10 point safety check before, every time I take my SH's to the range. It's not fear but it is a very healthy respect. Any gun can malfunction, but when a 50 malfunctions the ramification of that malfunction are magnified 10 fold.

I do think the AR upper conversion 50's design is both good and relatively safe. Most of the design flaws in prior models have been worked out as the design was refined over the years. Companies like Safety Harbor and Zel are generally making pretty good products but all it takes is one lemon to get through and your hard earned reputation can go down the crapper in a hurry. It's the poor execution of the build that seems to be the main factor behind these Ka-Booms. I'm sorry but improper heat treatment, mismatched parts and poor QC is inexcusable for a firearms maker. And you especially don't expect a Tard to be putting your gun together either. Very poor business.

Again its good that your okay. You really hate to hear this sort of thing but I'm glad you shared this with us. It's a good reminder that this sport we do does have it's risks, to think about what your doing, not get in a rush and all that. Glad to hear Zel is taking care of you, as they should!

Posted: 9/22/2014 10:30:03 AM EDT

[#27]

I'm glad that OP was not injured.

That being said, OP is a bit annoying posting on multiple forums about this...ARF is the largest firearm forum on the net...I think you got your point across OP. A little much to join firearms forums just to piss and moan.

Posted: 9/22/2014 7:11:43 PM EDT

[#28]

I wouldn't call it pissing and moaning, most boards don't have a dedicated 50 forum. It's just a PSA to let people know to check their equipment before hitting the range with an upper that can have the same problems!

A test firing of at least one round would've found this problem, if he had been seriously injured there wouldn't be any questioning of him posting about this. How they installed a smaller brake on the rifle is beyond me, larger threads or a different installation procedure is needed to prevent this from happening again.

I know if it would've be me I'm not sure if I would be so polite in my posting about this! He's not suing, all he wants is his money back nothing more. That's the least that Zel can do to make things right. If ANYONE from Zel wishes to post on the issue I will let them and wipe any negative posts. If you guys can keep it civil they can come here and have their say if they wish to let people know how these problems are being addressed.

This means that if it gets out of hand you can look for a banning and the thread being closed!!! So if the OP wants to ask them about posting here its up to him and them but it will be kept civil. One bash and its over and you'll be looking for a ban, I'll talk to The Bee Keeper if this does come up. OP, let me know if they're willing to post here on the issues.

Posted: 9/24/2014 9:41:47 AM EDT

[#29]

I have a ZEL Custom 50 CAL upper.

I had the same issue with the bolt handle.

It was replaced and I never had the issue again.

I was impressed with the customer service from ZEL.

I am a little disappointed that you are badmouthing ZEL this way.

All companies can have issues with their products.

What matters is that they stand behind there products and fix their problems.

Posted: 9/24/2014 2:49:28 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm glad that OP was not injured.

That being said, OP is a bit annoying posting on multiple forums about this...ARF is the largest firearm forum on the net...I think you got your point across OP. A little much to join firearms forums just to piss and moan.

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Well feel free to join or make comments on each of his threads in those other forums. Telling a man how much he can or cant write about is about as unAmerican as it gets.

Posted: 9/24/2014 7:31:00 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a ZEL Custom 50 CAL upper.

I had the same issue with the bolt handle.

It was replaced and I never had the issue again.

I was impressed with the customer service from ZEL.

I am a little disappointed that you are badmouthing ZEL this way.

All companies can have issues with their products.

What matters is that they stand behind there products and fix their problems.

View Quote

Joe, I dont give a carp how much a company stands behind their product if it gets me killed. Chew on that thought for a minute or two. I remember not to many years ago. A fellow went out in the bad lands. His bolt was launched thru his shoulder and screwed up his right hand. Thankfully he was able to drive back into town and got help. In a case like this, someone else might have just gave up and died. And if it had been much worse, maybe our guy would not had the means to have gotten himself back to where someone could help him. So, standing behind a product that is not so screwed up that it might kill you is good. But if it kills you, then how much is that "They stand behind their product" worth to you?

Posted: 9/24/2014 9:03:19 PM EDT

[#32]

You are being a little melodramatic, yes you had a muzle break blow apart because it was wrong one. That is a mistake that shoukd not have happened in first place. But You are partly responsible your self, it is up to you to go over the weapon and clean it . when you get it and before you shoot it. If you did you would have found it. When the handle broke off that should have been a flag to stop and really go over the upper with a fine tooth comb. But you failed to take basic precautions.

You may have had the pooh scared out of you with this mishap, but your life was never in dange! This round has power to punch trough 1/2" mild steel at 500 yards. The muzzle break was no match for this rounds power, the bullet blew trough the baffling splitting it , any remaning pressure was blown out the sides.

As had been said over and over this shoukd not have happened but it did the company is making it good, nothing mire they can do but learn and take action so it doesnt happen again. Every company had had issues in the past and always will. Companies are ran by humans, anytime humans are involved mistajes will happen. It is part of life.

I hope you learned to clean and inspect any fire arm when you get it in your hands

Posted: 9/25/2014 9:53:07 AM EDT

[#33]

If I replied to every forum comment that the OP posted on...I'd be guilty of doing the same thing he's doing. OP says he's not going to sue, but he sure doesn't have an issue with adding fuel to the fire. If he wasn't going to sue, then why drag this onto multiple forums? OP wants attention plain and simple. Just because someone says they aren't going to sue doesn't mean they are going to honor what they wrote in a public forum.

I get that the OP could have been seriously injured or killed. I just feel it's very counter productive to post it on every internet forum and social media.

ARF is the largest firearm forum and if someone posts on this forum the message will be heard.

I had Zel Custom as one of the companies I am considering when I purchase my next 50BMG. Will this blunder make me think twice about purchasing anything from Zel Custom? You bet, but I also know that ANY company can make a mistake. Look at the auto industry if you need proof. Don't get me wrong, this mistake could have seriously injured or killed someone, so it's very serious.

Quote History

Quoted:

Well feel free to join or make comments on each of his threads in those other forums. Telling a man how much he can or cant write about is about as unAmerican as it gets.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm glad that OP was not injured.

That being said, OP is a bit annoying posting on multiple forums about this...ARF is the largest firearm forum on the net...I think you got your point across OP. A little much to join firearms forums just to piss and moan.

Well feel free to join or make comments on each of his threads in those other forums. Telling a man how much he can or cant write about is about as unAmerican as it gets.

Posted: 9/25/2014 1:50:48 PM EDT

[#34]

Has anyone contacted ZEL about this yet to let them know we're discussing them? I'd love to hear their come to Jesus plan because I found this thread after finding their web page and thinking I might want one of their Spartan single shots. I liked the super simple design and the reasonable price point.

Also, does anyone else have one of their uppers? If so, are you willing to share your impressions about the quality of the design, fit and finish?

I'm assuming that the bolt handle problem is over and that there will never again be a mismatched muzzle brake shipped. Those are lessons most new companies would only need to learn once.

If their customer service is solid, and their product survived the kaboom without any other damage, It sounds pretty decent.

Call me dumb, but I remain interested.

Posted: 9/25/2014 2:43:56 PM EDT

[#35]

I just got one send me a PM if you want

Posted: 9/25/2014 6:50:22 PM EDT

[#36]

I think its good to get information out on things like this. Doesn't matter if its a car, gun or whatever. Depending on how serious the issues was will depend if I decide to do business with that company. A response from the company can go along way. Shit may happen but when the possibility of serious injury or death could occur, and the company blows it off, then I will not do business with them. Zel was one of the companies I am considering to get my next 50. But until I hear there explanation on the issue, I will look elsewhere.

Posted: 9/25/2014 10:07:10 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

Joe, I dont give a carp how much a company stands behind their product if it gets me killed. Chew on that thought for a minute or two. I remember not to many years ago. A fellow went out in the bad lands. His bolt was launched thru his shoulder and screwed up his right hand. Thankfully he was able to drive back into town and got help. In a case like this, someone else might have just gave up and died. And if it had been much worse, maybe our guy would not had the means to have gotten himself back to where someone could help him. So, standing behind a product that is not so screwed up that it might kill you is good. But if it kills you, then how much is that "They stand behind their product" worth to you?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a ZEL Custom 50 CAL upper.

I had the same issue with the bolt handle.

It was replaced and I never had the issue again.

I was impressed with the customer service from ZEL.

I am a little disappointed that you are badmouthing ZEL this way.

All companies can have issues with their products.

What matters is that they stand behind there products and fix their problems.

Joe, I dont give a carp how much a company stands behind their product if it gets me killed. Chew on that thought for a minute or two. I remember not to many years ago. A fellow went out in the bad lands. His bolt was launched thru his shoulder and screwed up his right hand. Thankfully he was able to drive back into town and got help. In a case like this, someone else might have just gave up and died. And if it had been much worse, maybe our guy would not had the means to have gotten himself back to where someone could help him. So, standing behind a product that is not so screwed up that it might kill you is good. But if it kills you, then how much is that "They stand behind their product" worth to you?

When you have over 220 grains of powder igniting 3 inches from your face...I hope people will research safe and accurate purchases...

From his past posts...Max Paul has done both...

Posted: 9/25/2014 10:33:12 PM EDT

[#38]

Thanks, but truth be told. I was ignorant and got lucky. Twas not till later that I found out how well built Dave makes his Ferrets. Didnt know about how Dave timed his bolt and blocking the hammer till the bolt is almost fully in battery. And how he cammed back the firing pin when the bolt is raised. I learned this later. So now days I beat the drum so others know of how well built the Ferrets are.

Posted: 9/29/2014 9:13:25 AM EDT

[#39]

Each cartridge - barrel - muzzle brake needs to have its own thread diameter and pitch to prevent this from happening in the future, whether from the factory or upon re-assembly by an owner with several combinations.

And all Uppers should be test-fired for FFF= Form, Fit, and Function before shipment.

Posted: 10/8/2014 11:24:34 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Each cartridge - barrel - muzzle brake needs to have its own thread diameter and pitch to prevent this from happening in the future, whether from the factory or upon re-assembly by an owner with several combinations.

And all Uppers should be test-fired for FFF= Form, Fit, and Function before shipment.

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Wise words...

Posted: 10/10/2014 2:01:38 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Each cartridge - barrel - muzzle brake needs to have its own thread diameter and pitch to prevent this from happening in the future, whether from the factory or upon re-assembly by an owner with several combinations.

And all Uppers should be test-fired for FFF= Form, Fit, and Function before shipment.

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That is silly. Age old traditions need not be dumbed down because of the lowest common denominator.

Posted: 10/10/2014 3:34:00 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

That is silly. Age old traditions need not be dumbed down because of the lowest common denominator.

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Quoted:
Each cartridge - barrel - muzzle brake needs to have its own thread diameter and pitch to prevent this from happening in the future, whether from the factory or upon re-assembly by an owner with several combinations.

And all Uppers should be test-fired for FFF= Form, Fit, and Function before shipment.

That is silly. Age old traditions need not be dumbed down because of the lowest common denominator.

No, just good common sense, to prevent assemblers from factory or the owners of firearm from creating the exact scenario that happened as reported here by O.P. It's not "dumbing down", it's applying good engineering practices to prevent future errors.

Posted: 10/10/2014 10:27:54 AM EDT

[#43]

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Quoted:

No, just good common sense, to prevent assemblers from factory or the owners of firearm from creating the exact scenario that happened as reported here by O.P. It's not "dumbing down", it's applying good engineering practices to prevent future errors.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Each cartridge - barrel - muzzle brake needs to have its own thread diameter and pitch to prevent this from happening in the future, whether from the factory or upon re-assembly by an owner with several combinations.

And all Uppers should be test-fired for FFF= Form, Fit, and Function before shipment.

That is silly. Age old traditions need not be dumbed down because of the lowest common denominator.

No, just good common sense, to prevent assemblers from factory or the owners of firearm from creating the exact scenario that happened as reported here by O.P. It's not "dumbing down", it's applying good engineering practices to prevent future errors.

For as long as I can remember 338 and 30& have both run 5/8-24 threads. Changing that and inconveniencing THOUSANDS because some dumbass messed up is foolish. This is not the nanny state.

It sucks this happened but your idea would negatively affect the shooting industry. Common threads are why we have so many choices in things like muzzle brakes and suppressors. Small outfits aren't going to be able to make their devices in 10+ thread patterns without it costing a fortune. The system we had works pretty darn good.

Posted: 10/10/2014 12:03:09 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

No, just good common sense, to prevent assemblers from factory or the owners of firearm from creating the exact scenario that happened as reported here by O.P. It's not "dumbing down", it's applying good engineering practices to prevent future errors.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Each cartridge - barrel - muzzle brake needs to have its own thread diameter and pitch to prevent this from happening in the future, whether from the factory or upon re-assembly by an owner with several combinations.

And all Uppers should be test-fired for FFF= Form, Fit, and Function before shipment.

That is silly. Age old traditions need not be dumbed down because of the lowest common denominator.

No, just good common sense, to prevent assemblers from factory or the owners of firearm from creating the exact scenario that happened as reported here by O.P. It's not "dumbing down", it's applying good engineering practices to prevent future errors.

I used to do just this sort of thing when designing as an engineer at Boeing. We called it "Murphy Proofing". Even though I was dealing with highly trained technicians assembling the components, if there is a way to screw it up some people would find that way. Sometimes going to great lengths to assemble something incorrectly. Very frustrating to be called out to the factory and told your design sucks. "Well you assembled the dam thing incorrectly" "well you need to Murphy Proof this dam thing". I never thought of it as dumbing down, rather I thought of it as added issuance and saving we humans from making human type mistakes. Its not like I ever assembled something incorrectly, even with the instructions sitting right there infront of me. That's one reason I stopped shopping at Ikea.

I agree that you "shouldn't" have to dumb down everything for the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately you have to, not only for common sense but to keep from getting sued. It's Darwin's law vs. warning labels on a hot cup of coffee telling you its hot.

Posted: 10/10/2014 12:44:54 PM EDT

[#45]

Let me know when the big manufacturers stop using 5/8-24 on their 338's. Or even better in this case who the hell is going to build separate 408,416, and 458 cans for the big long range rifles all with different threads??? Pretty much everyone is running 50 cans on their 416's.

Stupid

Posted: 10/10/2014 12:47:43 PM EDT

[#46]

Somethings need to be dumbed down. My wife went through an investigation after a F4 crash from an uncommanded roll right after take off. She was an avionics tech. The problem was depot maintenance put something to do with that system in backwards that caused the problem. My wife never forgot being read her rights when they were looking for someone to blame. At least the pilots were able to punch out safely. So building something that won't fit where it shouldn't might not be a bad idea.

Posted: 10/10/2014 5:10:08 PM EDT

[#47]

After working in the firearms industry for almost 20 years, building muzzle devices in a bunch of different thread patterns is an absurd idea. We always used a bore guide/muzzle brake alignment tool to double check as a go/no go gauge. Much cheaper and fool proof.

Mount brake, slide QC check rod into bore to check alignment and bore/exit hole size/alignment. Done.

Having different muzzle attachments and thread pitches would drive smaller shops out of business. Dumb idea.

Posted: 10/10/2014 9:28:49 PM EDT

[#48]

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Mount brake, slide QC check rod into bore to check alignment and bore/exit hole size/alignment. Done.

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If completed correctly every time there would not be a problem. But since it happened to the O.P., it doesn't work every time.

Posted: 10/10/2014 10:11:05 PM EDT

[#49]

That's why there should be a final inspection and shoot of the weapon, if this final check would've taken place we wouldn't be having this conversation. Quality control can make or break you, being that this was a minor incident and no one was hurt... Let hope they step up to the plate and this type of thing doesn't happen again.

For the record I don't think they need to dumb down anything, just need to check everything before it rolls out the door. I'm willing to bet they've read this thread and are taking measures to see that this doesn't happen again.

Posted: 10/10/2014 10:28:02 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
After working in the firearms industry for almost 20 years, building muzzle devices in a bunch of different thread patterns is an absurd idea. We always used a bore guide/muzzle brake alignment tool to double check as a go/no go gauge. Much cheaper and fool proof.

Mount brake, slide QC check rod into bore to check alignment and bore/exit hole size/alignment. Done.

Having different muzzle attachments and thread pitches would drive smaller shops out of business. Dumb idea.

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