I'm thinking about SBRing my 17S. For those who have done it, is it worth the $1250 to lose 3"? Would be buying a new barrel, paying the $200 NFA tax and engraving. Will be using a Sandman S on this weapon.

IMHO, with what you'll spend on a SCAR 17S and kitting it out and suppressing it, I almost wonder how it's worth it not to SBR it if you are allowed to do so.  

Another $200 will get the stamp in, and you don't have to get the short barrel immediately; and as I understand it, as long as the rifle remains in Title 1 configuration, stamped or not stamped, it can move between states, etc. as a Title 1 weapon.  

SBR the thing, save some money while you wait for it to come back, buy a short barrel and have both.  

Then wait for one of the promised 5.56MM conversions and save for that, too.  

One receiver, and you can "have it all."  

~Augee

I kinda agree with Augee.  Get the stamp rolling and then purchase the barrel later, or if you have the money, get it now... just keep them separate.  

I bought a 17 and I am trying to decide if I should have the barrel cut or not.  I cant afford the whole new barrel, but I could swing the chop and thread....  REAL temping since the Saker 7.62 is just sitting there...

Complete waste IMO. .308 becomes anemic bellow 16" and you are just wasting lots of powder and $$.

If you want to SBR, there are much more efficient rounds like 7.62x39.

Unless you just want a cool looking gun, then have at it. Ive run the numbers a few times and its just not worth it IMO.

USSOCOM runs the CQC length barrel. Seems to work great for them. Plus, I wouldn't be limited to SBR only. I'd have the 16" barrel also. It's an easy swap.

I hope those 237 posts in less than a month haven't been in tech.

That's bad info, man.

I had the opportunity to run my CQC configured SCAR 17S at the Range 37 UKD range a year or two ago.  Using one of the instructors as my spotter, I was able to make 1st round hits on IPSC sized steel plates out to 700 meters.  After that you could just about flip a coin and have better odds than hitting the target.  Totally ran out of gas, but I was blown away that a 13" barreled 7.62x51mm shooting M118LR could be that accurate out to 700 meters.  Bullet was just barely supersonic at that range.

Geissele trigger, Surefire 762-SV suppressor, Leupold VX-3 1.5-5 (yeah, worst optic ever for distance shooting), etc.

Long story short; if you're worried about diminished range or accuracy you're good out to ~700 meters. LOL

HTH
Stephen

Not really, Run the numbers. You are getting about 20% less performance while still dealing with the recoil and ammo weight. Less range, more drop, more wind at range.  You can mitigate this some with rounds like the SOST, but you are taking away what it a 1000yard gun you can get reliable hits with(not to mention the lower BC compared to rounds like the 175 and 185's. I was pounding man size targets with 155gr Nolsers with my 17 a few weeks ago at 1050.  Granted I shoot at altitude, but you aren't going to get anywhere close to that range with a sub 2300 MV. You are going transonic much sooner.

That doesn't even get into the issue of Can life. Run a can on there and you may get into stabilization issues not to mention you are going to erode the crap out of your can. USSOCOM doesn't have to worry about this because they are a consumable item. They also tend to use the CQC17 on short, CQB DA missions where they are running light.   There is a reason shorty FAL, G3's,ect were not very popular and considered a gimmick.  You are wasting performance and still have the weight/recoil penalty of a .308 compared to say a MK18 sized gun.

There is nothing wrong with someone who wants to build a clone or just wants a fun little gun. But to ignore the performance penalty does a disservice to people who are trying to decide.

Seems like a poor rifle to choose to register with the government over 3".

What optic were you using?

Switch between a Bushy 1-6.5x BTR2 SFP & a 3-12 Bushy LRHS both in a bobro.

I'm guessing you probably take yourself a little too seriously.  

On a practical level - how much, exactly, is someone who has to pay for their own weapon, much less their own stamp - worried about terminal effects at 1,000 yards besides as a fun gun and for "bragging rights?"  

Do you realistically believe that you are a) in whatever "SHTF" scenario you can dream up, be casually picking off targets at 1,000 yards - worried that if you somehow "only wound them," they're going to get the sudden "post-sub-sonic-7.62 wounding wind" and sprint 1,000 yards to knife you, or that you are b) going to be trying to tag a radioactive moose from 1,000 yards to feed your family in the post-apocalyptic wasteland wherein only you and yours remain because of your superior SHTF planning - having successfully predicted that $1,200 extra dollars to have some more fun with a better handling rifle could be a near fatal frivolity?  

Also, you clearly have no real sense of who does what missions, what those missions are, and what they carry on them.  

I can say "erhm, yersh... well you see... ::pushes glasses up on face:: the DA CQB  for CSAT in HALO MK 18 with MCMAP during PRT APFT," too.  

You made your point, you lose velocity and terminal performance at extended ranges when you cut your barrel.  The 2.3 people reading this thread who didn't realize that thank you for educating them.  

<Psst> - the SCAR is not the kind of rifle with a pressed in/semi-permanently attached barrel that you need an experienced gunsmith, if not an industrial machine shop to change the barrel on, so you're not "stuck" with a shorty if you decided to get your permission slip signed... you know, for when you need to do CQB DA, obviously.  Then you can go back to slaying your imaginary enemies at 1,000 with your vastly superior ballistics.  

If you spent close to $3,000 on a rifle, probably conservatively anywhere from an additional $1,000-$2,000 accessorizing it, possibly another $1,000+ suppressing it, not to mention you intend to keep it fed with a steady diet of 7.62MM... I think you find an extra $1,200 somewhere over the course of say... a year or so of ownership to get an extra barrel and a permission slip.

Leupold VX-3 1.5-5 with illuminated German #4 dot reticle.  With no BDC I was dialing in each shot using a Trimble Nomad to get my come ups.  The center dot is 2 MOA which covers most of the target past 400 meters.  Low magnification.  Like I said, worst optic ever for distance shooting.

Stephen

Dude...I felt the heat from that burn from here.

No kidding...

I'm surprised more people don't just chop to ~14.5 and perm attach a 1.5" flash hider/suppressor mount, send some love to ADCO or your local smith.

Typical forum crap: hand wringing, insults and belly aching over 3".  It's a freaking fantastic weapon either way guys.

FDE on top is cut to 13.7" and pinned with a MAMs by Marvin Pitts.  This is what you need to do.  Ask me which one I like better?  I have to access my Magnetospeed numbers, but the difference is only 150 FPS if I recall correctly with M80.  


My 16s that PMM cut to 13.9" and pinned a WARCOMP.  

I've got $6K in my rifle between mags, optic and can. Another $2K in ammo. You're right, what's another $1250. I mailed my F1 yesterday and ordered my barrel.

Thanks fellas

I think so.
Most people own guns like the SCAR because it's cool. Why not spend more and have a cooler gun?
Now if you're choosing between buying a suppressor or NVGs or an optic or something? I would lean towards that instead of SBRing a SCAR. If you're setup for practical things like that, though, why not have fun?

Anyone do any gel shoots with the 13"?  Couldn't find anything useful on Google or YouTube.

But for those of us in suppressor states......we would rather not have one mount be perm attached to the barrel.  On a side note...what handguards are those?

R

Those are Kinetic Development Group hand guards on the 17's, I have one myself and they are awesome. Changes the feel of the rifle quite a bit, adds +2 oz overall. Temping to SBR my 17 as well, not sure if it's worth it over a pin job.

I don't know how I lucked in to it, but a local guy went online and bought a NEW 13" barrel from FN.  So he had his original 16" barrel laying around... he said he NEVER planned on going back to it because it loved the SBR so much...  He sold it to me for $475 cash.  It was in the mail to Marvin the very next day!

If you have the money, than yes it is worth it.  I dont think a rifle of this caliber should have anything perm attached to it when sbr'ing is an option.

Those of you with the 13" barrel where did you engrave at?  Is there enough room to engrave somewhere visible on the barrel?

Engraving must be done on the receiver.

Incorrect.  "Frame, Receiver, or Barrel"

The engraving has to be done on the serialized portion of the weapon i.e. the frame/receiver, period.

Link that proves you are wrong, period.

Considering there's no penalty for not engraving who cares.

Lol. Nope. Period.  Better check the atf link above.  

Back to the question.....where are folks engraving their scars

Ok. So you engrave the 13" barrel. Now, if you go back to the longer barrel you have to engrave it too. Everyone I've seen that does nfa engraving engraved the receiver.  You are correct though, it does read that the barrel is legit. All the SBR SCARS I've seen were engraved on the frame, in different location. Matter of preference.

No you don't. When you switch back to a 16" barrel it is no longer an NFA item and engraving isn't required. This has been discussed before concerning SBS's.
I'm thinking about engraving mine between the muzzle and gasblock.

Actually you'll have to do some BATFE paperwork for your receiver to no longer be an NFA weapon since your receiver is still registered as an SBR.

Do what you all want, no reason to play it fast and loose with the ATF rules. You register the receiver as an SBR, it's an SBR till you have it removed from the registry via more ATF paperwork. Doesn't matter what barrel you put on it, in the ATFs eyes you have a registered SBR. As long as it's a registered SBR there has to be the manufacturer engraving on it whether it be on the frame/receiver or  barrel.

Your advice is, again, not complete.  The ATF asks that you notify them of PERMANENT changes to your sbr.  Its not a law either.  It is simply to keep the nfa registration accurate.  Your free to swap upper(barrel) lengths all you want without reporting to the .gov once the terms of the original application have been met.  And again, if it doesnt have a short barrel on it, its not an sbr.  

ATF NFA rules don't apply to your NFA registered rifle if it isn't in a NFA configuration. This is fact, not misinformation. I have to abide by enough BS ATF rules without adding imaginary ones on top of them. Don't make things out to be harder than they already are. YMMV

Since the engraving must be "conspicuous", how does this work on a short bbl. (since it barely extends out past the HG)?

A sbr in title 1 configuration  is just that no longer an sbr so no engraving  neccessary. This isn't new, and it has been clarified.  You really need to read up more and post less.


Eta: while in title 1 configuration  you don't need a 5320.20 to transport between state lines.  Again that has been clarified.

Its up to you to make sure your engraving spot is kosher.  Not every receiver, frame, or barrel is going to work.

At least you're consistent.

Not enough I guess. Funny, you'd think with 13 NFA toys I'd be a little better read....and I've read alot.....just not the "right" sources it'd appear.

It happens. If you're not learning every day then you are doing something wrong.

I stand corrected.

Update
Received a correction letter yesterday. I forgot to put in the model on both forms. Corrected and mailed today. The good news is I should have my stamp in a couple more weeks.

Wait, so you're saying if I have a sbr, and then put a standard 16in upper and visit a state that doesn't allow sbrs,
1 - that is legal in the eyes of the state?
2 - that is legal in the eyes of the atf?
3 - I don't need to file a transport of sbr?

So what about if I have a pistol that's been sbrd and registered in Nevada. Then I want to visit Cali. So I remove the buttstock. Now it's good to go in Cali? Can't be that easy.

Its only subject to sbr law when its length is less than "X". Not a hard concept to grasp.

Title 1 it just to have it.  That way you can always throw a 13 inch barrel on it.
At least you have the option at that point.

In the eyes of BATFE it is a Title 1 firearm. Whether or not California will allow it in the state is another issue, but has nothing to do with the NFA.

But as an example, I live in Tennessee and frequently travel to Arkansas. If I take and SBR, remove the SBR upper, and install a 16" upper, It is perfectly legal for me to cross into Arkansas without filing the 5320.20. This is because both Arkansas and Tennessee allow me to have a 16" AR in the state.

Good points all.
Thanks Gents.
California allows 16inc rifesn just need to have bullet buttons and other gay stuff.

You could bring it in with a 16 inch barrel and their lame assed bullet button/radlock device temporarily installed.

Approved 4/20
My Sandman S is approved as well. Still waiting on Dead Air for a flash hider mount.
Will update later with pics.

Yes it's worth every ounce of squeezing.

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