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firststrike51
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Posted: 9/24/2011 8:05:27 PM EST
Hello everyone.Ive recenly been looking for a new rifle and I really like the FN PS90...I havent purchased a new rifle in a long time and have owned ar15s and ak47 but im looking for something a little diffrent/unique this time around.
I do like the idea of being able to buy a pistol that uses the same ammo too.I know also there are a lot of options in out there including FS2000,SCARS,AUGS but price is a little bit of an issue so i would like to keep my purchase around 1500.
Im looking at the PS90 for home defence and urban engagements/ enviorments ,etc....I realize that its not a long range weapon.
So I have a few questions i was hoping for some help with.....

What is the popularity of the 5.7x28 cartridge?Has it stabalized,declined or is it still growing...i dont want to have problems finding ammo in five years.
Is the 5.7x28 have enough stopping power at say 200 yards?I feel that 200yards is max for most average senarios?(opinions?)
Are there other options i should consider in this price range?
thanks for any help
KILLERB6
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Posted: 9/24/2011 9:36:51 PM EST
The PS90 was a purpose built weapon, and to some degree, the 5.7x8mm was a purpose built round.

So unless you require one for that purpose, there are far better weapons and far better rounds, especially for self-defense.

I think I'm safe saying the 5.7 round is not popular and declining, especially since it was not (likey to be) chosen as a NATO round (one of it's original design purposes). I'll look for the link on it.
DeltaAlphaNovember
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Posted: 9/25/2011 1:16:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
I think I'm safe saying the 5.7 round is not popular and declining, especially since it was not (likey to be) chosen as a NATO round (one of it's original design purposes). I'll look for the link on it.


My understanding was that it was chosen, but then HK objected, so they put the whole process on hold.

Meanwhile, the US Secret Service seems to like the 5.7mm and have been buying up both the P90 and Five-seveN, and there seems to be a healthy civilian following as well. It would be very interesting to see sales data for 5.7mm.

metroplex
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Posted: 9/25/2011 3:09:25 AM EST
Fun range toy.
KILLERB6
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Posted: 9/25/2011 3:16:29 AM EST
Google 5.7x28 terminal ballistics.
KILLERB6
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Posted: 9/25/2011 3:18:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By metroplex:
Fun range toy.


I'd go with that...albeit a bit expensive to feed...now in 9mm...hmmm.
DeltaAlphaNovember
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Posted: 9/25/2011 3:46:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Google 5.7x28 terminal ballistics.


Yep, the 5.7 has great penetration, and the ballistics test I've seen look deadly.

Additionally, the 5.7 has low recoil, and is relatively small allowing large capacities and fast, accurate follow up shots.

pavlovwolf
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Posted: 9/25/2011 4:32:50 AM EST
Personally I would go with a Bullpup in 5.56. Plenty of maneuverability and a common inexpensive system to feed.
THX1138 MOS, Officer Candidate.
Michael64
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Posted: 9/25/2011 11:48:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By DeltaAlphaNovember:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Google 5.7x28 terminal ballistics.


Yep, the 5.7 has great penetration, and the ballistics test I've seen look deadly.

Additionally, the 5.7 has low recoil, and is relatively small allowing large capacities and fast, accurate follow up shots.



Thats for the leo/military ss190 round.
The standard civie ammo offerings are alot meaker.

Think 22 magnum
ehryk
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Posted: 9/25/2011 12:37:50 PM EST
I own a PS90, I really like the rifle but I wouldnt want it as my main rifle. The 5.7x28 honestly is a low power round. For 200 meters, the bullet will get there and is relatively flat with regards to trajectory, but the 40 grain bullet just does not carry much energy with it as factory rounds are only going about 2375 fps.. For close range (like 50 meters or less), its ok. It appears to slowly be gaining poopularity with the AR57 uppers being out for a while now. If I recall correctly, another company is coming out with 2 guns in 5.7x28 in the near future, so maybe, just maybe more companies will start making 5.7 than just FN.

My best advice, if this is for a primary SD/HD rifle, get an FS2000. 5.56 chamber, 1:7 twist chrome lined bore, STANAG mags, truely ambidexterous and shorter length with its 17.5" barrel than my issue M4 is with its stock collapsed.
DmL5
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Posted: 9/25/2011 2:16:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2011 2:27:48 PM EST by DmL5]
Originally Posted By Michael64:
Thats for the leo/military ss190 round.
The standard civie ammo offerings are alot meaker.

Think 22 magnum

Kel-Tec lists only 1,230 ft/s with a 40-grain bullet from their new .22 WMR pistol, the PMR-30; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 134 ft/lbs. Combat Handguns chronographed EA's 5.7x28mm Protector at 2,000+ ft/s from the Five-seveN pistol, again with a 40-grain bullet; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 355+ ft/lbs.

The velocity difference between the two is nearly 800 ft/s; so the EA 5.7x28mm load is about 65% faster than the .22 WMR and produces nearly three times the muzzle energy. Even FN's SS197SR has a muzzle velocity about 500 ft/s higher than the .22 WMR. These are all pistol to pistol comparisons, with similar barrel lengths and identical bullet weights.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/FN-FiveseveN.htm




Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
I think I'm safe saying the 5.7 round is not popular and declining

It's in more widespread use than ever (40+ countries). The ammo is easy to find locally, for about the same prices as .45 ACP.
Michael64
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Posted: 9/25/2011 4:42:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By DmL5:
Originally Posted By Michael64:
Thats for the leo/military ss190 round.
The standard civie ammo offerings are alot meaker.

Think 22 magnum

Kel-Tec lists only 1,230 ft/s with a 40-grain bullet from their new .22 WMR pistol, the PMR-30; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 134 ft/lbs. Combat Handguns chronographed EA's 5.7x28mm Protector at 2,000+ ft/s from the Five-seveN pistol, again with a 40-grain bullet; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 355+ ft/lbs.

The velocity difference between the two is nearly 800 ft/s; so the EA 5.7x28mm load is about 65% faster than the .22 WMR and produces nearly three times the muzzle energy. Even FN's SS197SR has a muzzle velocity about 500 ft/s higher than the .22 WMR. These are all pistol to pistol comparisons, with similar barrel lengths and identical bullet weights.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/FN-FiveseveN.htm




Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
I think I'm safe saying the 5.7 round is not popular and declining

It's in more widespread use than ever (40+ countries). The ammo is easy to find locally, for about the same prices as .45 ACP.


Ok then 22 Hornet
Either way, the 5.7x28 is not an ideal self defense round. Its effectiveness with the P90 is designed around a full auto platform. Given the ability to put multiple rounds in a very small target. Semi auto it does not have the same effectiveness.
If you wish to consider this a self defense round then go right on.
DmL5
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Posted: 9/25/2011 4:50:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2011 4:50:28 PM EST by DmL5]
Originally Posted By Michael64:
Ok then 22 Hornet

So what?

You probably aren't aware of a single shooting with .22 Hornet, let alone any significant number of shootings where .22 Hornet actually performed poorly, so that comparison is meaningless.



Originally Posted By Michael64:
Given the ability to put multiple rounds in a very small target. Semi auto it does not have the same effectiveness.

The PS90 does that just fine in semi-automatic; so does the Five-seveN pistol.
TerryGecko
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Posted: 9/26/2011 7:10:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2011 7:11:14 AM EST by TerryGecko]
Here is a video that a couple of guys from zombiehunters.org and I made in an attempt to dispel the 5.7x28mm = 22magnum myth. Not only did it outperform 22magnum by a huge margin, we found that it's as lethal as 9mm/45acp with proper loads. Only 2 of us were 5.7x28mm supporters, everyone else's agenda was to disprove the 5.7x28mm round as a viable SD option. Everyone was shocked at the results. Especially with S4M.

5.7x28mm ballistics gel test video

The guy who edited the video above also conducted another test on 5.7x28mm loads. This time he shot them into blocks of modeling clay and compared the results to Hydra Shok 45acp rounds. Extremely interesting results.

5.7x28mm vs 45acp modeling clay video

We are always asking for more suggestions in terms of testing. In the near future we will be testing other barriers such as dry wall, windshield, etc...
WarHound55
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Posted: 9/26/2011 9:23:00 AM EST
I liked this pdw and bought it originally for the wife to use. She has since become comfortable with the AR platform. I since have sold the PS and the 5.7 pistol and went to mostly 5.56 and 7.62 for me. Less ammo to worry about. Now when the kids are in their teens that may change again.

I did find the cartridge accurate and reliable. I had zero misfires or FTE/FTF in 1200 rounds. The rifle does not flash at night which I did like. Does it trump an AR that you could be into for less than $900 bucks.... no.
GLOCKCRAZZ
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Posted: 9/26/2011 11:49:20 AM EST
Yes I have one and yes I like it.
It's not a rifle it's more like a pistol caliber carbine. Technically it's a PDW.
Don't compare it to assault rifles or main battle rifles.
firststrike51
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Posted: 9/26/2011 12:54:41 PM EST
Thanks to everyone for all the input....I greatly appreciate it!
If i spend $1500 on a rifle it will be a while before I get another so I have to get sort of an all purpose gun,It seems as though the ps-90 is a great gun but not a gun that I should by at this time?
I like the bullpup designs so That sort of leaves me with a few option such as a MSAR, but the E4 seems a little hard to find?...Ive found a few FS2000s online NIB for 1800-1900 so looks like at this time I must do more reading ,seaching and saving.
thanks again,bill
Las_Vegas_HK
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Posted: 9/27/2011 1:58:33 PM EST
My PS90 tri-rail SBR conversion is a great rifle! I have a Dr Optics red dot and I can get at least 4 MOA with very little work.

In my opinion there are very few other rfiles that come close the the P90, light weight, less than 20" long, 50 rounds of fast moving armor piercing ammunition, low recoil and it just very fun to shoot!

As a side note, companies like Elite Ammunition shut up a lot of the critics on the 5.7 x 28mm potency.
Buffman_LT1
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Posted: 9/28/2011 7:40:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 7:48:57 PM EST by Buffman_LT1]
I imagine 150 yards would probably be the max range of the 5.7 from the PS90. You can certainly hit a 2x2' target at 100yards with the pistol :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbI_OfMtKNA
mdoan300
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Posted: 9/30/2011 4:03:26 PM EST
My PS90 is my HD defense gun. Compact, low recoil, less deafening, less risk of wall over penetration - works for me. If I need to shoot outside the house at longer than 50yds, then I'll take the AR, but PS90 is for inside the house.

As morbid as it sounds, 5.7mm is seemingly popular with the drug cartels in Mexico. I don't suppose they like it because it stings.

Michael.
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Posted: 10/17/2011 4:51:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By mdoan300:
My PS90 is my HD defense gun.


For me as well. It is stationed next to the bed. As loud as the .223/5.56 is outside, i wouldn't dare fire it indoors for the sake of my family.

Swoosh101
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Posted: 10/18/2011 1:51:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Delucas:
Originally Posted By mdoan300:
My PS90 is my HD defense gun.


For me as well. It is stationed next to the bed. As loud as the .223/5.56 is outside, i wouldn't dare fire it indoors for the sake of my family.



WHAT? how loud is 5.7 inside?
There is one certain means by which I can be sure to never see my country's ruin; I will die in the last ditch! Evil_ATF: He may speak true but no one calls my woman a bitch except me, motherfucker. Get off of your shark and prepare to defend yourself.
Top_Secret
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Posted: 10/18/2011 4:48:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Swoosh101:
Originally Posted By Delucas:
Originally Posted By mdoan300:
My PS90 is my HD defense gun.


For me as well. It is stationed next to the bed. As loud as the .223/5.56 is outside, i wouldn't dare fire it indoors for the sake of my family.



WHAT? how loud is 5.7 inside?


I just put a can on mine, solves that problem.
Originally Posted By hoodonit00: I think some of you guys could suck the fun out of a machine gun shoot.
Para069
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Posted: 10/18/2011 4:59:01 AM EST
It is a totally waste of good gunpowder
Shipwreck
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Posted: 10/18/2011 9:46:21 AM EST
Ballistic table of the 5.7 - sighted at 50 yards and 100 yards... The 50 yard zero is actually the best. The 195 ammo will go a little further. But, honestly, while I have two PS90s - 150 yards is what I consider max range...





I actually owned my 1st PS90 for 5 years now... I had an MSAR STG AUG for about 8 months. I sold it in the summer of 2010 and bought the second PS90. WIth MSAR bankrupt, I wouldn't buy one now (if ya owned one already - Ratworx is providing some service and parts - but I wouldn't buy one now unless you already owned one... DUplicates are nice because you can always take parts from one)
Danman
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Posted: 10/19/2011 9:39:16 AM EST
5.7 works great on rabbits
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