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Posted: 7/2/2017 12:54:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Colt AR15 Model 614 is what you seek. I've changed out a lot on it and never had any problems using mil-spec parts.
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Posted: 7/2/2017 1:11:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Colt M16 family from most desirable to least desirable :
M16A2 Commando (marked safe/semi/auto) M16A2 M16A1 M16 AR15 model 614 (marked safe/semi/auto, full fence, slab side) AR15 model SP1 (marked safe/fire, slab side, large front pins) There are also a handful of non-colt RR that are of good quality as well. If you're just looking for a shooter they are great options. Spend a could hundred to have them looked at/worked on by a gunsmith and followed up by a fresh coat of anodizing and you got a M16 that looks and feels brand new at a fraction of the price of a colt with no worries about damaging its value if you scratch it or loose the original parts it came with, etc... |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 2:13:02 PM EDT
[#3]
If you want the m16a1 and plan to modernize it, why the reservation?
I plan to strip my m16a1 of everything, including the lower parts, putting it all in a box and starting with new parts. I even have a retro upper I built that I will shoot and not the upper that came with the rifle itself. Mine is completely unfired, which is why I plan to remove the lpk so I can save it as unfired also. I don't plan to beat my lower up in any way but it's certainly going to get a lot of use. I have a lowers with thousands of rounds through them, including many at rifle matches, which look like the day I bought them. Aside from dropping the rifle on concrete, it's not that easy to make them look beat. |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 5:52:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Colt AR15 Model 614 is what you seek. I've changed out a lot on it and never had any problems using mil-spec parts. |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 5:11:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I know the Colt M16A1 are the cream of the crop... and I'm honestly probably going to end up going that direction. But as much as I appreciate the original M16A1, I think I'd end up modernizing the RR and swapping all the parts out anyways. Is there a RR below the M16A1 tier that you guys would recommend? Anything that works. Lots of off-brand RRs out there that run fine for $10K less. eta Quoted:
There are also a handful of non-colt RR that are of good quality as well. If you're just looking for a shooter they are great options. Spend a could hundred to have them looked at/worked on by a gunsmith and followed up by a fresh coat of anodizing and you got a M16 that looks and feels brand new at a fraction of the price of a colt with no worries about damaging its value if you scratch it or loose the original parts it came with, etc... |
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Posted: 7/7/2017 12:10:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Would this one be recommended at all? Hydramatic reweld done by Stemple?
If one could get it for $16,000-$17,000? Or just save up another $7,000-$8,000 for a Colt M16A1? |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 1:08:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would this one be recommended at all? Hydramatic reweld done by Stemple? If one could get it for $16,000-$17,000? Or just save up another $7,000-$8,000 for a Colt M16A1? |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:58:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As noted in another thread ... if you want flexibility to use any upper, you might not want a reweld. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 5:18:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I asked this before but didn't get a clear answer, are there a list of known rewelds and non-rewelds? I know its military "scraps" such as Hydramatic, but I still dont really know I have never seen a list of known reweld receivers. However, I have seen rewelded Hydramatics, Colts, and H&Rs over the years. That said if I was purchasing a registered receiver I would apply the following criteria. 1. Is it Colt factory M16 and the accompanying paperwork list Colt as the original manufacture. Odds are good it is not a reweld. 2. Is the receiver from a non-military supplier (Oly/SGW, SENDRA, Essential Arms, large pin/no-fence Colt SP1 or AR15 Sporter). Odds are high its not a reweld. 3. If its a factory Colt and/or commercial receiver, are all the marking correct and the receiver has fully intact anodizing without paint type-coating on it. Further boosts odds its not a reweld. Now conversely.... 3. Is the receiver from a military supplier from the 60, 70s, or early 80s (Colt, GM Hydramatic, H&R, maybe Balimoy) and the paperwork shows somebody else as the manufacturer of record. Odds are significantly higher its a reweld vs. a factory gun. 4. Is the receiver a Colt, H&R, GM Hydromatics and the manufacturer of record on the paperwork either John Norrell or John Stemple? Odds are really high its a reweld as they seemed to be the most prolific vendor of rewelded M16s. 5. Are both #3 and #4 in the affirmative and the original markings are not 100% and/or its been painted, plus its got another manufacturers marking hiding under the pistol grip, etc? Virtually guaranteed to be a reweld. There are still challenges as some rewelds were done well., some secondary MFG markings could be lost during a refinish, and the paperwork over the years have been changed to say Colt vs. say Stemple. Granted with the ATFs recent focus on all transfer paperwork matching the original F2, many of these paperwork changes should probably be caught and corrected back. If you are really concerned the easiest reweld filter would be...does it have a paint type coating on it. I don't think there would be any way to effectively hide the weld area without a paint type coating on the receiver. Any reweld receiver I am going to speculate has not been re-anodized and even if it was reanodized the weld area probably wouldnt take the anodizing and dye the same as the original base receiver parts. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 6:08:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never seen a list of known reweld receivers. However, I have seen rewelded Hydramatics, Colts, and H&Rs over the years. That said if I was purchasing a registered receiver I would apply the following criteria. 1. Is it Colt factory M16 and the accompanying paperwork list Colt as the original manufacture. Odds are good it is not a reweld. 2. Is the receiver from a non-military supplier (Oly/SGW, SENDRA, Essential Arms, large pin/no-fence Colt SP1 or AR15 Sporter). Odds are high its not a reweld. 3. If its a factory Colt and/or commercial receiver, are all the marking correct and the receiver has fully intact anodizing without paint type-coating on it. Further boosts odds its not a reweld. Now conversely.... 3. Is the receiver from a military supplier from the 60, 70s, or early 80s (Colt, GM Hydramatic, H&R, maybe Balimoy) and the paperwork shows somebody else as the manufacturer of record. Odds are significantly higher its a reweld vs. a factory gun. 4. Is the receiver a Colt, H&R, GM Hydromatics and the manufacturer of record on the paperwork either John Norrell or John Stemple? Odds are really high its a reweld as they seemed to be the most prolific vendor of rewelded M16s. 5. Are both #3 and #4 in the affirmative and the original markings are not 100% and/or its been painted, plus its got another manufacturers marking hiding under the pistol grip, etc? Virtually guaranteed to be a reweld. There are still challenges as some rewelds were done well., some secondary MFG markings could be lost during a refinish, and the paperwork over the years have been changed to say Colt vs. say Stemple. Granted with the ATFs recent focus on all transfer paperwork matching the original F2, many of these paperwork changes should probably be caught and corrected back. If you are really concerned the easiest reweld filter would be...does it have a paint type coating on it. I don't think there would be any way to effectively hide the weld area without a paint type coating on the receiver. Any reweld receiver I am going to speculate has not been re-anodized and even if it was reanodized the weld area probably wouldnt take the anodizing and dye the same as the original base receiver parts.  thanks
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Posted: 7/11/2017 9:01:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Excellent post, jbntx.
All I would add is: --There are indeed some rewelds that were done on military factory Colt's, and the Form 3/4 lists Colt as the manufacturer. That's because ATF was not always as nit-picky as they are today, and a reweld done by someone else (and Form 1/2'd as such) was later transferred to someone who filled out the Form 3/4 with Colt as the manufacturer, and ATF did not catch it. This could be done intentionally, or because (pre-internet days) some folks believed if it said Colt on the mag well, then Colt must have made it. So be particularly wary of any Colt factory M16 variant with a U.S. PROPERTY marking, because those were the bulk of the ex-.gov host demilled Colts. --As far as refinishing goes, yes, rewelds do not re-anodize very well, and the weld itself is often/usually visible afterward. As a result, most owners go to the next best thing: Any of the "-cote" refinishes that duplicate the mil spec color. But while they duplicate the color and texture of anodizing, it is easy to tell them apart from the real thing in person: Take your fingernail and, in an unobtrusive place -- like inside the mag well -- press gently against the metal. Anodizing will be as hard as a rock; any paint or "-cote" will have a very slight "give" to it. Certainly do this very gently, so as not to scratch the finish, but try it several times back and forth between an anodized finish and a painted/coated finish, and you'll see how different they feel. After that, it's like riding a bicycle -- you'll always know the difference. This is also useful, of course, when trying to figure out if a factory Colt M16 variant has been refinished. And in almost every case, a refinish devalues a factory Colt by at least $500, and usually more like a grand or two. There is nothing worse than buying what you thought was a pristine factory Colt M6, only to find it was ridden hard, put away wet, then pimped up with new paint. Hope this is of some help. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:16:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent post, jbntx. All I would add is: --There are indeed some rewelds that were done on military factory Colt's, and the Form 3/4 lists Colt as the manufacturer. That's because ATF was not always as nit-picky as they are today, and a reweld done by someone else (and Form 1/2'd as such) was later transferred to someone who filled out the Form 3/4 with Colt as the manufacturer, and ATF did not catch it. This could be done intentionally, or because (pre-internet days) some folks believed if it said Colt on the mag well, then Colt must have made it. So be particularly wary of any Colt factory M16 variant with a U.S. PROPERTY marking, because those were the bulk of the ex-.gov host demilled Colts. --As far as refinishing goes, yes, rewelds do not re-anodize very well, and the weld itself is often/usually visible afterward. As a result, most owners go to the next best thing: Any of the "-cote" refinishes that duplicate the mil spec color. But while they duplicate the color and texture of anodizing, it is easy to tell them apart from the real thing in person: Take your fingernail and, in an unobtrusive place -- like inside the mag well -- press gently against the metal. Anodizing will be as hard as a rock; any paint or "-cote" will have a very slight "give" to it. Certainly do this very gently, so as not to scratch the finish, but try it several times back and forth between an anodized finish and a painted/coated finish, and you'll see how different they feel. After that, it's like riding a bicycle -- you'll always know the difference. This is also useful, of course, when trying to figure out if a factory Colt M16 variant has been refinished. And in almost every case, a refinish devalues a factory Colt by at least $500, and usually more like a grand or two. There is nothing worse than buying what you thought was a pristine factory Colt M6, only to find it was ridden hard, put away wet, then pimped up with new paint. Hope this is of some help. |
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