So I bought a M10/45 last year and am hoping to get an AR15/M16 this year at some point.

Does anyone have an article or rundown of how to choose? Seems like the range of Colt prices are 20-30k, so obviously there are some variations (A!, A2, Wilson, etc) of Colt that are desired, and others that are 1/3 cheaper. Can someone explain?

Then there are "other" models which make up about 10% of what I see.

Best common gun is going to be a factory colt machinegun. Past that ones converted by a factory vs an individual. Like the sendra ones converted by bushmaster. You have cast essential arms lower and olympic made ones that I'd think cover the most of the rest. That and converted colt sp1 guns. The colt sp1's need an adapter to run normal uppers due to the large front take down pin. You have some la france ones that I'm not sure who made the lower one and a few other factory m16's which are rare are more expensive.

For colt factory guns you may want to read this thread and others.
Uzi talk thread

You have some questionable guns out there. Story is someone who worked for colt remade some older guns. Some of it may have been after the atf cracked down on remaking receivers. Will anything come of it? Who knows. Personally I'd avoid guns that look like they are newer receivers. IE a bunch of the new in box guns floating around and things that just don't add up. Stuff like the colt m16a1 guns factory finished in black instead of gray with the latest reinforcements on the lower.

Topic Moved

There's some excellent advice above.  I would like to point out that with Colt, there are no hard/fast rules.  You will find A2 (AR15 and M16 both) marked guns that do NOT have A2 reinforcements.  And I've seen Colt M16A1 marked guns that were really A2 lowers with reinforcements, just not marked as such.  Just saying...many things are possible with Colt.

You do have some legit cross over, a2 marked guns that were on a1 forging, etc. Those can be legit.

The best is to quote a post form the above thread:

From me searching around online I think they sums it up well. That's how you got some marked a3, m4 enhanced, m4/m16a2e, m16a2e, xm4 carbine, etc. Also I'm guessing thats where a bunch of the property of us government a2's that are on the market came from(from inside colt at least).

I'm guessing the serial numbers for those would end up coming up as m16, m16a1, or m16a2 guns. Now it is possible that some were redone before the atf put an end to allowing registered title 2 weapons to be remade and they got a variance from the atf to change the marking. So far I haven't seen anyone producing paperwork to say that. I'm kinda wondering what the form 3s and 4s are saying for these guns. I wonder if they actually say whats engraved on the side of the gun or are marked a1 or a2?

Did ATF ever "allow" for Transferable Machine Gun receivers to be "remanufactured", or did they simply discover an illegal process underway, and publicly order it to stop? Apparently it is illegal to do this now, and the courts have set precedent that ATF cannot "grandfather" guns (even IF they wanted to).

Something about "not with a 10 foot pole" comes to mind here...

M16 Market Data
Transferable M16 machine guns and estimated market values:
RLL $13-16k
RDIAS $30-35k
RR Non-Colt Cast AR15 Conversion $17-19k
RR Non-Colt AR15 Conversion $18-20k
RR Colt AR15 SP1 Conversion $18-20k
RR Colt AR15 614 $23-25k
RR Colt M16 $25-30k
RR Colt M16A1 $25-30k
RR Colt M16A2 $30-35k
RR Colt M16A2 Commando $35-40k (Marked "Auto" instead of "Burst")

If you just want a M16 to shoot get a Non-Colt conversion RR. Im not a fan of the SP1 lowers because of the slab side and front pin. I prefer the non-colts because they have the fence, small pins and some are even marked "M16" and "Safe, Semi, Auto" whereas the SP1s are marked "Safe, Fire" when they came from the factor, some will have "Safe, Fire, Auto" but the word auto was hammered onto the lower at a later date by whoever converted the rifle to a machine gun. The non-colts sometimes are slightly out of spec though so its a good idea to have it sent off to a competent gunsmith such as M60 Joe I sent mine to USAnodizing, they milled down a couple spots on mine to get it back in spec and then re-anodized it, now it looks brand new!

If you want something with collector value then pick up a Colt M16, M16A1 or M16A2. Keep in mind you will be paying $5,000-10,000+ just for the fact that it says "Colt" and "M16" on the lower.

RDIAS are the most "versatile" as they can be dropped in semi-auto AR15s. Personally I never saw the convenience being worth the premium in price, the AR15/M16 is so easy to modify, you cant swap uppers on a RR lower and can have different barrel lengths, calibers, etc...in seconds.

A RLL is the cheapest way to get into the M16 market, IMO the biggest disadvantages is you have to use mil spec triggers, once you get used to a Geissele two stage super select fire (SSF) trigger its hard to go back. You also cant shoot 22lr and you have to use a SP1 Bolt carrier. But I saw one sell for under $12k recently so if youre on a budget it may be the way to go.

Websites to watch for good deals on machine guns:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com
http://www.atfmachinegun.com
http://www.autoweapons.com
http://www.impactguns.com
http://www.subguns.com
http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com
http://www.davidspiwak.com
http://dealernfa.com
http://www.gunbroker.com
http://www.nfasales.com
http://mtmmfg.com
http://www.classiiidealers.com/
http://www.westernfirearms.com/
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/class-iii-full-auto/
http://www.urban-armory.com/
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_7/118_NFA_Firearms_andamp__Parts.html

Website that tracks machine gun values:
http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/

There is an unusual non-Colt variant.  Before the ban, Group Industries (GI) made cast stainless steel AR-15s of which right around 100 were made into M16s by GI.  These rarely come up for public sale any more, and when they do, they command a premium over the other non-Colt manufacturers and sometimes even the Colt M16/M16A1.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

My understanding is yes they did along with allowing suppressor companies to remake cans(which I'm guessing was more common). Multiple manufacturers replaced machine gun receivers up until the early 2000's when it was determined that it wasn't ok anymore. At very least a few bigger companies were doing it and were not stopped for years.

While this is more hearsay than anything my understanding is that most of the drop in auto sears were aluminium at first and many of the steel ones are remakes. This is coming from machine gun smiths I've talked to. Good news for those who have them is that it would be very hard to catch. I wouldn't be surprised if this happened with lightning links as well. I mean if one was to break where it couldn't be fixed easily it wouldn't be hard to make a new one and make the engraving(which was etched on many poorly) look the same.

It is worth saying that a bunch of those were out of spec too but I'm guessing at this point most have been fixed.

You also have Harrington and Richardson and General Motors guns which are very rare. Those generally command a premium just because they are rare.

Seems strange to pay extra for a steel lower given it would easily add a pound or more to your rifle.

The premise is that steel is stronger than aluminum and thus less like likely to experience inadvertent breakage (e.g., the damage that A2 reinforcements are intended to eliminate) or damage from so-called "kaboom" incidents.  I, personally, am not worried about the aluminum RR I have.

Same here, I feed mine quality factory ammo and treat it more gentle than a 18 year old soldier who doesn't have to pay for his rifle

i paid big bucks for one of those NIB M16a2 government marked guns.......i regret not just getting a basic M16 a1 and having $$ left over to buy something else

i would just look for a $23-24k M16a1 in nice shape and buy it

get a Colt....

Colt will always sell faster and is always going to be the most desirable M16

Im sure you could work out a trade with a dealer for a M16A1 and a MAC or some other entry level subgun

Most MG owners are not humping their gun for miles, so weight is irrelevant. but the belief steel lower will outlast a Al lower, that they will pay for.

ive put too much work into it and over paid for it.....selling at a loss and getting a less desirable A1...nah....i learned a lesson and have not repeated it...i know prices before i buy now....and i wait for the right gun at the right price....all my other guns i could resell for more than i paid easily

I have an Olympic Arms conversion. I sent it to M60Joe who looked it over, milled the top, and sent it back. I then sent it to Victor at US Anodizing and he took off the old finish, applied a new layer of anodize, and returned it. It's absolutely as perfect as can be. Every upper fits on it, no issues, no problems. Not all Olys are lemons - as internet opinion may have you believe.

I just had a SGW/Oly come back from US Anodizing as well.

Unfired SGW M16 was bought at auction in 2014 and had the standard lower takedown pin dimensional issues many SGW/Olys have........ plus a horrible camo paint job (with no anodizing underneath).  



Went off to M60joe in 2015 to and got the top deck and front lugs blueprinted.



I then sorta lost interest in the project for a year or so but about 6 months ago finally chemical stripped off the majority of the paint and followed up with a light glass-bead blast.


The lower had really  faint AR15 "Safe" / "Fire" selector markings from the factory so I lightly blended the existing markings to hide them a touch bit more and then re-engraved the proper "Safe" - "Semi" - "Auto" markings.  




it then went off to US Anodizing for treatment and finally came back this week in their "M4" black color.




Ordered about $500ish worth of parts yesterday to finish the lower off. (Colt M16 LPK, KNS pins, Colt Recoil Spring + H3 Buffer, Colt castle nut, Knights ambi-selector and trigger guard, POF enhanced buffer tube, Vltor SASE rear plate, magpul CTR stock, and a tango down grip)

Now I just need to figure out what to do with it.....

Anybody interesting 1980s vintage Oly M16 rattle-can "camo" parts kit?    never been fired and only dropped once.

My colt m16 that I bought should be showing up at my dealer very soon(it shipped) for him to look over and so we can start the form 4. I also have a pile of parts waiting for it. A new colt m16 lpk, kns pins, colt 4 position buffer tube, spring, castle nut, h3 buffer, lmt endplate as the colt was out of stock, kac trigger guard and ambi selector, norgon ambi mag release, and a 6921 upper to go on top of it which currently has a kac rail/front grip on it as I had it sitting around. Going to use an ergo grip and sopmod stock as well.

I know the one I have coming is not in its original config but I'm not sure on the buffer tube. If it is the stock colt one and mine was a carbine from the factory and it still has the factory staking it will stay on. If not new parts. It is going through a well known machinegun smith so I'm going to have him just do everything while it is waiting on the form 4 to clear.

Spartikis,
"RDIAS are the most "versatile" as they can be dropped in semi-auto AR15s. Personally I never saw the convenience being worth the premium in price, the AR15/M16 is so easy to modify, you cant swap uppers on a RR lower and can have different barrel lengths, calibers, etc...in seconds. "

I have a dias so im partial to them, to me its more than versitility than convince.
I wouldnt want to cut a piece out of a RR to utilize some of the beltfed kits out there.. or damage a RR by forgeting to put a shim in the buffer tubewith the shrike/mcr uppers, or their is droping your RR with the rear takedown pin pulled.

A kaboom events isnt a huge concern in general but a dias would survive that much better aswell.
9mm kits egging fcg holes.
Less worry about fucking up your receiver installing different parts like bolt catch...ive never botched it myself but have seen many boogered roll pins.

Every time i see a receiver with a broken tab/ear for the trigger guard i wanna cry.

All that said, RR are fine. but in the end Sears will be worth more than RR

I also have steel DIAS and RLL.
I don't have to pamper the guns, and I could take advantage of all the latest receiver update.
They're extremely versatile.

The more you pay the more you get I suppose. I still don't think it's worth nearly double the price but that's just my opinion.

I can see the argument for not paying double a RR for a sear.....im glad my sear was equal in value toma lower level RR when i bought it. That was only lIke 4/5 years ago.

I had a great DIAS and sold it to buy RR guns.  Could never get comfortable with a conversion device that could literally fall out of the gun and it bugged me that it operated all the time unlike a true auto sear.  I also found the "more versatile" argument wanting, you have to move F/A parts from receiver to receiver so you tend to put the setup in one gun and just leave it.  For some folks it has value (and commands a premium) but the only thing I miss about mine is I sold it about 20k short of its current value...

This is good info. I, too, am looking to enter the M16 arena. I've been looking at colt and other M16 rifles. Sub guns seems to have a lot of rifles for sale or at least links to rifles. The DealerNFA.com guys seems to have a lot of M16 stuff but dang.. I need to keep saving