I'm looking for kit recommendations for a dedicated 4" upper that I have with a Beyers .22 barrel and collar; and also a standard kit with chamber adapter. I suppose I could change out the collar for the chamber adapter, but more likely going to purchase both.

Stainless CMMG for both units would be my recommendation.

ETA: Just realized this is in the M16 section, too - so while my recommendation stands, if you want your rifle to retain full auto capability with the 22 conversions installed I think the CMMG is the only one currently in production and readily available as a kit with the automatic trip and debounce weight.

The old Ciener conversions could be had with the sear trip and debounce weight, and Spike's made those parts for their conversions for a short while, as well. Those parts will fit most other maker's Atchisson-derived conversions, too.

The CMMG kits are boringly reliable in semi, but all the various conversions either worked well in auto when dropped in, or you'd have to tinker and fiddle with them, and rarely got a fully reliable result.

I am in the process of building a .22 upper for my M16 right now.  I'm doing so in the face of negative experience from a few of the very experienced members here, including you Tony , knowing that I might never get the thing running right.  I know it CAN be done, so I have to try, just because it would be sooooo cool if I get it running well.  I went CMMG for the bolt, barrel, trip and anti-bounce, and am adding the Taccom reliability kit right out of the gate.  I'm waiting for my barrel to come back from ADCO right now.  I had the regular M4 CMMG barrel cut down to 8.5" with the Silencerco thread spec; not going ultra short because I pretty much shoot only Gemtech subsonic and CCI standard.

I'll report back with results, but it will be at least a few weeks before I have everything together.

I've got the CMMG upper. Ran 100% out of the box with the auto trip.

Well, that gives me a fall-back.  If I can't get the M16 running well on .22, I'll just have to pick up an Uzi .

I am working on this now with the CMMG.

Mine did not turn out to be reliable out of the box on FA. I bought the complete CMMG upper and am using with a DIAS. Seems to be very late in timing.

I did buy the TACCOM reliability kit to see if I can get it running properly. The breech gets dirty quickly from wax and lead. You need to bring a brass brush / rod and a drill with you to zip clean it.

I am working on this now with the CMMG.

Mine did not turn out to be reliable out of the box on FA. I bought the complete CMMG upper and am using with a DIAS. Seems to be very late in timing.

I did buy the TACCOM reliability kit to see if I can get it running properly. The breech gets dirty quickly from wax and lead. You need to bring a brass brush / rod and a drill with you to zip clean it.

I've been down this road before, with the Lage .22 kit for the M/11-9. 100% unreliable and I even sent it back for tuning. Tried EVERYTHING multiple times. Even at the end I was modifying magazines. Largest gun related boondoggle I ever experienced. I ended up selling the $550 kit, and 12 $40 mags (filed on feed lips) for like $100 to a guy that was going to cut it down for the M11A1 in .380 gun. No idea if he ever got it to run.

I would get a complete CMMG .22 upper and use exclusively CMMG magazines to start.  I have also found the Black Dog drums to run well.  Black Dog makes several mags and even more variations over time if you buy older ones.  I wouldn't waste time figuring out which ones are good and just buy the CMMG magazines (which may be made by Black Dog, but they are the ones CMMG has picked for their kit).  Tacon reliability parts can help a kit that is running well run better, but won't (in my experience) turn a train wreck into a train ride.  You are making a .22 blow back auto, so expect dirt, wax, powder, etc. just like any .22.  They are great fun, especially for new shooters, so I have found the hassles to be worth it.

Long ago Black Dog (BD) did make .22 mags for CMMG.  From what I could tell at the time (there were threads here on ARFCOM and maybe other blogs as well) BD could not keep up with the demand for both CMMG and their own .22 mag sales, so CMMG decided to make their own.  This resulted in a bit of an imbroglio; so I seriously doubt that BD is making anything for CMMG.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

I feel your pain. Then I came across this video..

Ciener kit in an old SP1 20" upper with the following:
Plugged gas port in FSB (gas tube removed)
Ball detent mod
Two o-rings around the chamber adapter inside the barrel extension
Lakeside recoil spring
Polished feed ramp
Polished guide rails
No anti-bounce weight
Slip 2000 or Lucas gun oil

Shot the Black Dog drum twice and four 25 rd CMMG mags for 200 rds just yesterday.

Add me to the 100% functional CMMG Bravo kit with sear trip and anti-bounce group, very boring. Lol

HIIIIIYA Tony!

Use with a dedicated 22LR barreled upper (I have a Rick Kuehl 10.5in barrel + collar) and recommended ammo, per CMMG/Ceiner is the blue boxed Federal Bulk 32gr bulk pack and I've only had one problem.... after probably 10k rounds the firing pin broke so CMMG sent me 2 replacements, no questions asked, no charge and FAST! The Federal blue box is what they recommend for best functionality but you should have seen the look on my face when I discovered that Gemtech Subsonic ALSO runs 100%.  Oh, and for mags, try to ALWAYS run steel feed lip mags, the plastic ones suck. I run the Black Dog 50rd drums as well, works great.

I did expect a bunch of tinkering but mine runs amazing with/without suppressor.

https://youtu.be/v5i1MPiHcZw  

*A good bit of the bulk ends up subsonic, I guess you'd call it "standard" velocity so you'll hear some sub and super.

In the past, I've had a couple of Ciener kits that ran fine for several thousand rounds and then gave up.  Then I got an LM7 and got it running well, kept it for 5-6 years, and sold it when an AM15 came up.  Sometimes that thing works great...

It the Creek in April, I bought the CMMG kit in stainless, with chamber adapter and collar, anti-bounce weight and sear trip, and their 16" barrel and 3 mags.  It has run flawlessly on SA.  I'm using it with a RDIAS, and the timing is fine, but in FA mode, I have a problem where, after 2-5 round burst, the anti-bounce weight jumps out of its little motion-limiting recess, and binds the bolt to the rear.  Retracting the charging handle will not free it up.  You have to remove the kit from the upper.  Sometimes it frees itself when you remove it from the upper, and sometimes you have to manually free it.  The anti-bounce weight is wedging between the bolt and the main frame/flat plate, and putting the action in a bind.

I spoke with CMMG twice, and sent 2 emails, and they sent me a couple of new anti-bounce weights thinking there may have been a problem with the first one, but it does the same thing with the new anti-bounce weights.

I have noticed that when using their barrel and collar (only way I've tried it), the whole main frame/plate thingy sill move like 1/16" front to back, and when it does, the sear trip moves with it.  I wonder about shimming it at the back, to make the buffer and spring keep positive pressure on the whole rig and keep it shoved forward.

Thoughts?

Yes, you can try the taccom part, or make your own, that goes into the buffer tube and puts pressure on the CMMG BCG.

I have one now, but haven't tried to run the CMMG again - I need to get out to try it.

BTW - I have also had the anti-bounce bind up my CMMG setup. I am not too far from CMMG. If I can't get this thing to run I am going to see about sending it back to them / bringing it out to them to see if they can get it too. Such a great idea if I can get it to run like in the IraqVetran video I would be soooo happy.

There's also the CMMG locking collar chamber adapter, that locks the frame into the barrel extension using the extension lugs - only useful with a regular barrel, not the dedicated 22lr barrel, obviously, but that does prevent the frame from moving at all within the upper.

Even with the pressure plug and/or locking adapter, I've still had reliability issues. Only 22 kit that just dropped in and worked for me is my older Ciener, and only with one particular upper.

Well, I finally finished the .22 upper on Friday, took it out yesterday, and unfortunately ran into issues right out of the gate.  It's a CMMG barrel, bolt, ABW and trip with a Sparrow suppressor.  Colt M16A2 lower, BDM mags and Gemtech ammo.

I had the anti-bounce weight bind at the rear of the upper as described above after a few rounds in semi.  As soon as I removed it, it ran fine in semi.  Had a couple of stovepipes, installed the Taccom extractor and those went away. 300+ flawless round in semi after that.

In full auto, it's a single shot.  The second round chambers and the hammer is forward, but there's not even a light pin strike that I can see.  Nothing.

I tried it with and without the buffer spacer, with and without the anti-bounce, same results.  I E-mailed CMMG yesterday evening, and I'll wait to hear back from them before modifying anything in a way I can't un-modify (i.e., chamfering the spring tube to use the Taccom recoil spring).

The good news is, I enjoy tinkering and troubleshooting, as long as it's not something my life may depend on.  So I may have a source of entertainment for quite awhile just trying to get the thing to run.

Keep us updated, i have been wanting to build one myself.

What's the status of your CMMG repair? I'm experiencing the exact same issue with my kit. Single shot in full auto, round chambered, hammer forward.

They've had my kit over a month with sporadic replies about trying it on multiple lowers in an attempt to recreate the problem.

If you will email me a [email protected] I will email you a list of mods I did to get my cmmg dedicated upper to run 99.5% on my Colt m16a1 lower. It does not matter what ammo you use. My kit even runs with piney mountain tracers.

emrisg, would you mind posting that here?

I was going to wait to post here until I got it running 100%.  That hasn't happened yet.

A heavier anti-bounce weight that CMMG sent me (a prototype, not in production) got it running sporadically.  I can get bursts of 20-25, but it always stops running and I have to remove the mag and cycle it to get it to fire again.  I've been playing with recoil spring weights (using the ones in Black Dog's Lakeside spring kit), no help.  Now I'm experimenting with magazine spring tension in the 50 round drums, thinking maybe the gun is outrunning the magazine.

emrisg, I hope you don't mind, I'm going to e-mail you as well in the hopes you can give me some info that will get me the rest of the way to 100% function.

Edit

email me with any questions. I will help any way I can.

The biggest issues I had with the kit out of the box had to do with the firing pin. My firing pin that originally came with the dedicated upper would not set off a 22 round even in semi. It would hit the shell and leave a mark but no bang. I called CMMG and they told me to file the tip down that contacted the shell. Basically the tip of the firing pin was too long and too wide. I ended up buying a Taccom firing pin and that solved that issue.

I also noticed that the firing pin fit really tight into the hole in the bolt that it rides in. I polished my firing pin with a dremel and some fine compound( got the polishing kit at Wal-Mart for $15). Once I got the firing pin smooth enough where it would easily move up and down in the bolt my gun started running better.

At the same time I was messing with this kit I was talking to the guy that used to own lakeside machine about buying a belt fed 22upper. I ended up not buying the upper because he was closing his shop and the last thing I wanted was something that I could not get worked on. He told me on several occasions to change the disco spring and hammer spring with any 22 kit out there and it would make the gun run better in both 22 and 5.56.

I also polished the face of my hammer so there was more contact with the firing pin. You could see on my hammer where it was just hitting in 1 spot. I used light sandpaper and then finished with a dremel.

At the end of the day it took several hours of tinkering to get it going but it was worth it.

I hope my post has helped somebody. I got rid of all my other 22 kits because I could not get them to work.

that barrel is awesome, but the chamber is tight.

I just got one, it ran okay on semi but I had to clean it a lot to keep it going. I also had to chamfer the edges so it would feed easier.

Its very accurate but I would not try it on f/a.


Been down the F/A upper before, to get it to work I did:

I used a kuehl barrel (it had to have chamber smoothed out for feeding)

BDM stainless x form mags

lakeside spring

CCI MMs only

polished conversion kit (bolt/rails).

clean/waxed mags.

tuned hammer spring

I also used a quest SS suppressor as lead will build up extremely fast with a f/a gun. Do not use a sealed can

it would run 100% but you had to keep it clean all the time. Especially the mags, they have to keep up with a fas gun.

good luck

Not into FA, but no mention of the original M-261 conversion? Given that they were mil issue, I'd think the odds would be higher that they would work in FA. 

Genuinely curious.

One more thing to add. I bought my kit before cmmg offered short barrels. I had my barrel cut down to 4.5 inches and it always has a swr spectre on it. I have the better mag refi mag adapter that lets me use S&w mags and black dog drums.

They did not use them on f/a, just like most of mil training.

they were for practice/quals and they just had a 10 rd mag for the most part

Following up to my thread. I just got the parts yesterday and ran 20 mags thru the gun. Nearly perfect functioning. Once in a while, the first round would fire, eject, but another round wouldn't get picked up. I am using some Black Dog mags that have been loaded more times than I can imagine, so I probably need new mag springs, or maybe just a cleaning, they are filthy and the rounds are dragging the inside. After that, the gun runs 100% in bursts or mag dumps.

My set up is:
Colt M16A1
All original FCG
brand new CMMG ARC kit with the ball bearing
CMMG sear trip and antibounce weight
CMMG charging handle for .22
4.75" Beyer barrel
Standard velocity 40 grain lead nose
Black Dog 25 round mags with the metal feed lips
AAC Element 2 suppressor

Removed buffer and spring and replaced with a sawn off length of broom handle to make the bolt kit lock up on the barrel totally tight. I don't know if I really needed to do this, but I used to have to do it with another setup that I had, and I just grabbed it and installed it for the first run today.