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Posted: 10/20/2015 9:09:12 AM EDT
What companies make a complete 22LR upper designed/rated for full auto?
Im feeling kind of lazy and dont feel like building anything nor do i want to have to swap out a bunch of parts each time, would be nice just to push two pins and swap the uppers. Does such a thing exist? What about conversion kits such as this one? https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/22lr-ar-conversion-kit-bravo-grey/ Seems simple, but you cant shoot 22lr down a 5.56 barrel, im going to guess the diameter and twist aren't correct. My knowledge of 22s is limited to the ruger 10/22 so any help is appreciated. 
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Posted: 10/20/2015 9:25:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Tactical Innovations AM15 drum-fed upper.
Lakeside Machine Razorback belt-fed upper. Although I don't believe either are currently mfg. |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 9:29:56 AM EDT
[#2]
CMMG, with a auto trip, and bounce parts kit added,
https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/auto-sear-trip-kit-22arc/ https://www.cmmginc.com/product-category/uppers/22lr-uppers/ https://www.cmmginc.com/product-category/22lr-conversion/22-arc-conversion-kits/ I just installed and test ran a auto trip/bounce in my spikes ST-22, sporadic results, information out there, says to try different recoil spring lengths (for my issue). Call CMMG see what they say. |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 9:49:43 AM EDT
[#3]
I run the CMMG 9" upper with the auto sear trip package. Took some polishing of the bcg and you need to run it wet but I can dump a 50 round blackdog drum w/o any problems through a suppressor.
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Posted: 10/20/2015 10:47:22 AM EDT
[#4]
IIRC, thse kits don't work with aftermarket triggers like the Geissele SSF btw
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Posted: 10/20/2015 1:23:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
What companies make a complete 22LR upper designed/rated for full auto? Of course, the Ciener-produced units with auto trip and debounce weights, or the short-lived Spike's reproductions of the same. I think the only stuff currently in production is the CMMG trip and debounce weight, though. Dunno if Ciener is still producing or just selling off old stock. |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 1:50:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course, the Ciener-produced units with auto trip and debounce weights, or the short-lived Spike's reproductions of the same. I think the only stuff currently in production is the CMMG trip and debounce weight, though. Dunno if Ciener is still producing or just selling off old stock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What companies make a complete 22LR upper designed/rated for full auto? Of course, the Ciener-produced units with auto trip and debounce weights, or the short-lived Spike's reproductions of the same. I think the only stuff currently in production is the CMMG trip and debounce weight, though. Dunno if Ciener is still producing or just selling off old stock. Ciener: I have read a long history of ripping people off, only deal with them on a face to face transaction. |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 2:39:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC, thse kits don't work with aftermarket triggers like the Geissele SSF btw Seriously? guh! Yeah im not giving up my two stage Geissele just so i can shoot 22lr with a mil-spec trigger 
Plus I can reload 55gr 223 for $0.20 a round but .22lr ammo still costs $0.07-0.10 a round |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 3:45:41 PM EDT
[#8]
when 300 in a row tell me their 22 kit works 100% with zero malfunctions, then I'll buy one again
my last two 22 kits were a complete and total waste of money, endless dicking with them and zero results |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 4:39:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Damn, I would love to be able to put together a short .22LR upper for full auto fun. Maybe the CMMG kit is worth a try with the sear trip.
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Posted: 10/20/2015 6:21:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Kuehl (sp?) made them years ago, based on JAC kits. Very highly regarded - I have no personal experience.
I've have not had any trouble with a CMMG .22 dedicated 16" bbl upper from 2009 or 2010 with the trip/weight installed using CMMG mags. On the other hand, I'm not sitting on a discretionary 300 round stack of .22 ammo that I'm willing to blast through it just to prove a point. And then I have a SS CMMG conversion kit plus trip/weight that gets dirty after 100-150 rounds and feeding goes south until it gets cleaned. So, it just depends. Best of luck with whatever you decide to pursue. |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 7:17:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? guh! Yeah im not giving up my two stage Geissele just so i can shoot 22lr with a mil-spec trigger Plus I can reload 55gr 223 for $0.20 a round but .22lr ammo still costs $0.07-0.10 a round Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IIRC, thse kits don't work with aftermarket triggers like the Geissele SSF btw Seriously? guh! Yeah im not giving up my two stage Geissele just so i can shoot 22lr with a mil-spec trigger Plus I can reload 55gr 223 for $0.20 a round but .22lr ammo still costs $0.07-0.10 a round |
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Posted: 10/20/2015 11:48:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, they do work with a Geissele SSF. I run one with my Ciener kit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, thse kits don't work with aftermarket triggers like the Geissele SSF btw Seriously? guh! Yeah im not giving up my two stage Geissele just so i can shoot 22lr with a mil-spec trigger
Plus I can reload 55gr 223 for $0.20 a round but .22lr ammo still costs $0.07-0.10 a round I also run a kit with my ssf trigger, just a drop in cmmg kit with trip/weight. I did cut about an inch off the spring and it might have helped a little, its not really as picky as I thought it would be. |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 10:43:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also run a kit with my ssf trigger, just a drop in cmmg kit with trip/weight. I did cut about an inch off the spring and it might have helped a little, its not really as picky as I thought it would be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, thse kits don't work with aftermarket triggers like the Geissele SSF btw Seriously? guh! Yeah im not giving up my two stage Geissele just so i can shoot 22lr with a mil-spec trigger
Plus I can reload 55gr 223 for $0.20 a round but .22lr ammo still costs $0.07-0.10 a round I also run a kit with my ssf trigger, just a drop in cmmg kit with trip/weight. I did cut about an inch off the spring and it might have helped a little, its not really as picky as I thought it would be. So you just toss the conversion kit in any 5.56 upper? the 1/7 twist isnt a problem? Im not shooting past say 25 yards so its no big deal but just curious. |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 1:23:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Hm, I stand corrected on the SSF. It seems to me I read multiple times on here that it wouldn't work.
Guess I was mistaken |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 1:33:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you just toss the conversion kit in any 5.56 upper? the 1/7 twist isnt a problem? Im not shooting past say 25 yards so its no big deal but just curious. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: IIRC, thse kits don't work with aftermarket triggers like the Geissele SSF btw Seriously? guh! Yeah im not giving up my two stage Geissele just so i can shoot 22lr with a mil-spec trigger Plus I can reload 55gr 223 for $0.20 a round but .22lr ammo still costs $0.07-0.10 a round I also run a kit with my ssf trigger, just a drop in cmmg kit with trip/weight. I did cut about an inch off the spring and it might have helped a little, its not really as picky as I thought it would be. So you just toss the conversion kit in any 5.56 upper? the 1/7 twist isnt a problem? Im not shooting past say 25 yards so its no big deal but just curious. If you don't, you have to make sure you don't go too crazy as you be clogging the gas tube and leading up your 5.56 bore. |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 10:50:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you just toss the conversion kit in any 5.56 upper? the 1/7 twist isnt a problem? Im not shooting past say 25 yards so its no big deal but just curious. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, thse kits don't work with aftermarket triggers like the Geissele SSF btw Seriously? guh! Yeah im not giving up my two stage Geissele just so i can shoot 22lr with a mil-spec trigger
Plus I can reload 55gr 223 for $0.20 a round but .22lr ammo still costs $0.07-0.10 a round I also run a kit with my ssf trigger, just a drop in cmmg kit with trip/weight. I did cut about an inch off the spring and it might have helped a little, its not really as picky as I thought it would be. So you just toss the conversion kit in any 5.56 upper? the 1/7 twist isnt a problem? Im not shooting past say 25 yards so its no big deal but just curious. Just dropped into any upper yeah. Tt might not be ideal but its just a bullet hose when I do it, no idea on accuracy. I'd like a dedicated upper eventually but for now this works. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:07:57 AM EDT
[#17]
I've had several Ciener/Atchisson kits over the years. They typically work fine with the right ammo, for thousands of rounds, but they do eventually wear out or get out of spec or get finicky.
All of the other kits on the market are based in some way on the Atchisson design. I have a Lakeside LM7 that runs great. You might get 2-3 stoppages in 800 rounds, as long as you keep it fairly clean, use the right ammo, and load the belts consistently. It doesn't 'jam', only stops, and you just pull the handle and let if fly and you're going again. My bud has the AM15 and it runs great too, as long as you keep it fairly clean and use the right ammo. |
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Posted: 10/31/2015 1:19:46 AM EDT
[#18]
I have had a Spikes Tactical kit that has treated me great for probably 10 years now. I don't know how many rounds I've fired but I know it's been a lot.
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Posted: 11/5/2015 11:24:06 PM EDT
[#19]
CMMG .22 upper (with trip & anti-bounce weight) on a registered SP1 lower, with Geissele trigger.
Like the air powered bb guns at the fair, shooting out the red star.... Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... |
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Posted: 11/12/2015 10:02:34 PM EDT
[#20]
I built my dedicated 22 upper with a CMMG bolt/4.5 barrel assembly, bushy upper, and a CMMG keymod handguard. I did no modifications out of the box aside from install everything and clean/lube and it has run like a top on my SOTs postie lower and my registered lower. Parts were ordered in July. I was concerned it was going to be a jam-o-matic and had my dremel with polishing parts and files in my truck ready to go but it wasn't needed. I have had 2 failures in about 1200 rounds and they were both dead rounds. Most running was BDM mag dumps and BDM drum dumps.
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Posted: 12/21/2015 10:18:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Well it looks like I am going to have to pick one of these up. Took my 12 year old to the range today and rented one of their 22s. Forgot how much fun they are. Now for the questions.
I am leaning toward one of the 16 inch cmmg variants. It wont phase me if he bangs around a plain jane colt lower. That said i really really want to run it on my 614 as well. The zero recoil was amusing to say the least. For those that have them running, is everyone running the 4.5" or 9"? Is the 16 inch as easy to make run? I can let him take an sbr lower if need be but hope I don't need to do that. Yes. I am aware that a hammer may be the tool that sets me free. Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/27/2015 7:26:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Picked up one of the cmmg dedicated 16" uppers off of gunbroker. Added the sear trip and debounce weight from cmmg's website. Air powered BB gun is right. What a hoot. Only shot 300 rounds and all of those where cci mini mags. I figured I would use those to break it in. Mix of semi and full auto fire. Not a single malfunction of any kind.
Huge thumbs up. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 11:44:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CMMG .22 upper (with trip & anti-bounce weight) on a registered SP1 lower, with Geissele trigger. Like the air powered bb guns at the fair, shooting out the red star.... Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
What mags are you using? I've got a similar setup. |
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Posted: 12/29/2015 5:25:53 PM EDT
[#24]
I have am15 upper, it works somewhat I think the problems I have experienced have all been with winding correctly. I have only used it twice.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 1:29:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
when 300 in a row tell me their 22 kit works 100% with zero malfunctions, then I'll buy one again my last two 22 kits were a complete and total waste of money, endless dicking with them and zero results My thoughts exactly. I had a Spikes 22lr kit for the MRP upper. I never got through a full mag on auto and I was shooting CCI mini mags. I gladly sold it. Also had a lakeside LM7 that after watching a friend tinker with his to get running, I decided to sell without ever shooting. My friend with the LM7 loves to tinker with 22lr conversion kits and his do run (overall) reliably. I'm just not into near endless tinkering to get a MG running. I would much prefer a 9mm beltfed upper. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 1:33:49 AM EDT
[#26]
I have a CMMG .22 upper, with a 4.5" barrel. Converted to use M&P 15-22 mags. It runs flawlessly, about 99.99% reliability. I've made it through two bricks in a sitting three times, I had a malfunction twice.
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Posted: 1/4/2016 1:05:53 PM EDT
[#27]
FWIW I the CMMG 7" upper with a Giesele SSF trigger. It took a lot of back and forth with CMMG who was more than helpful and I got it to run 99% of the time. The sear trip and ammo are, in my experience, the culprits. Unfortunately these uppers don't seem to run standard ammo. Feed it CCI HI VEL 36g and 40g ammo and it will run fine. Or at least mine does. Its nearly as much fun as the 556 upper. How many folks have taken out multiple hogs with full auto 22 rimfire mag dumps........  |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 9:50:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Just when I was having so much fun. Would be great if those that have working setups could provide input. Thankfully I started with a working unit and had parts to swap.
Thanks http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_15/689566_CMMG_dedicated_22lr_issue.html |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 12:08:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, I would love to be able to put together a short .22LR upper for full auto fun. IM sent |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 12:16:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a CMMG .22 upper, with a 4.5" barrel. Converted to use M&P 15-22 mags. how did you convert it? |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 3:12:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how did you convert it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a CMMG .22 upper, with a 4.5" barrel. Converted to use M&P 15-22 mags. how did you convert it? M&P15-22 mags will work without an adapter, but will be a little bit loose, and don't activate the bolt hold-open. Add the Boonie-Packer Better-Mag adapter, and they'll fit securely, and even activate the bolt hold-open. Beware mods are required to the adapter for use with the full auto trip on a CMMG kit, but it drops in to a semi-auto. |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 10:17:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how did you convert it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a CMMG .22 upper, with a 4.5" barrel. Converted to use M&P 15-22 mags. how did you convert it? http://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52 I don't remember making any mods to the adapter but is has been several years since I got it. Bolt hold open works with my colt m16 lower. The gentleman that owns better mag is very friendly and will go out of his way to help you. He is one of the best people I have had the opportunity to deal with in the firearms industry. The adapter works flawlessly and only takes 2 minutes to install. All magazines lock up tight. The s&w mags are nice but I run black dog drums most of the time. I have a dedicated cmmg 22 upper with a 5.5 inch barrel. I had the 16 inch barrel cut down and threaded. I had to monkey the kit some and replace the springs in the kit but it runs 99.5%. The few times it won't dump a drum is mostly ammo related. I have not found any ammo that won't cycle in my kit. Piney mountain tracers are real cool at night. I can email people the stuff I changed to get mine to run. If I can do it anybody can get theirs working. My only complaint is 22 is dirty and I have to take out all the fire control components and clean them once a year. I shoot 3-4,000 22 rounds through my colt lower a year. All shooting is done with a swr spectre. |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 3:46:32 AM EDT
[#33]
I am running the CMMG 9" upper and after some initial trouble with BDM mags that had out of alignment stainless feed lips, I changed to the CMMG mags and BDM drums and got it running pretty well. I have ordered the Redi-Mag Better Mag adapter to try the S&W magazines, as well as the Taccom plug and parts kit that some folks have recommended to improve performance. At the moment the limiting factor seems to be old bulk pack .22lr that I have laying around, next step is to try a range of locally available .22lr to eliminate that variable. The lower is a Colt 614 with new Colt FCG parts.
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Posted: 12/3/2016 10:51:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am running the CMMG 9" upper and after some initial trouble with BDM mags that had out of alignment stainless feed lips, I changed to the CMMG mags and BDM drums and got it running pretty well. I have ordered the Redi-Mag Better Mag adapter to try the S&W magazines, as well as the Taccom plug and parts kit that some folks have recommended to improve performance. At the moment the limiting factor seems to be old bulk pack .22lr that I have laying around, next step is to try a range of locally available .22lr to eliminate that variable. The lower is a Colt 614 with new Colt FCG parts. So your drum runs OK in full auto? |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 11:32:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So your drum runs OK in full auto? That's all I pretty much use these days with my Ciener kit builds. They run 100% for me. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:02:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So your drum runs OK in full auto? Yes, I have been impressed by the drums and can see a future where I just grab 5 of those and go to the range. When I blast my Mk18 A1 clone I get a lot of unhappy looks at the indoor range due to the impressive concussion it puts out. When I take the 614 it is nothing but love and folks recalling how fun they have shooting those arcade guns...brrrrrrrup! |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 10:54:37 PM EDT
[#37]
I have a 4.5'' CMMG barrel, with their bolt, trip, & bounce kit. I also have one of their charging handles. I use the AR-22 mags and have the redi mag adapter. It doesn't run for shit.
CMMG has replaced the extractor, extractor spring, chassis, collar, etc... I have installed the Taccom3g reliability kit. I have 'buzzed the chamber', polished everything, etc.... Still runs like poop. CMMG has now suggested trying their mags. 
Photos - Here Video - Here |
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Posted: 2/8/2017 6:24:00 PM EDT
[#38]
I bet I shot 600 rounds out of my gun this last weekend using black dog drums (S&W). Had 2 failures and they were due to ammo not working.
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Posted: 2/8/2017 8:45:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a 4.5'' CMMG barrel, with their bolt, trip, & bounce kit. I also have one of their charging handles. I use the AR-22 mags and have the redi mag adapter. It doesn't run for shit. CMMG has replaced the extractor, extractor spring, chassis, collar, etc... I have installed the Taccom3g reliability kit. I have 'buzzed the chamber', polished everything, etc.... Still runs like poop. CMMG has now suggested trying their mags.
Photos - Here Video - Here With those types of failures the mag feed lips might be acting as the ejector so I'd say CMMG suggestion on using their mags is worth a try. I run a few of them and they've been pretty solid, to the point where I rarely use the metal Ciener mags anymore. Probably ran near 400 rounds thru my gun last weekend with just two CMMG mags. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 9:55:18 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What mags are you using? I've got a similar setup. Black Dog (BDM) |
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Posted: 2/24/2017 9:39:54 PM EDT
[#41]
I use a CMMG upper with the add on parts for auto and weight. It runs great but it is ammo picky. I can't shoot any Remington ammo at all. I use Black Dog mags. They run good but will jam up if you don't clean them once in a while.
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