Looking at this Sendra, comes with 2 uppers, but what are those worth these days anyway.   Won't take a Colt or LMT upper, seems the lower lug needs to be shaved, esp. around the bottom corners.

Form 4 and visual inspection do not anyone other than Sendra, which is odd because I thought all Sendra RR were coverted by someone else.   Here is the slideshow of pics, unfortunately the pic of the left side came out a bit blurry:   http://s256.photobucket.com/user/Quake_Guy/slideshow/Sendra%20RR

Selector movement is very stiff.   Takedown pins are some of the shortest I have seen, front pin needs a tool for removal.   Surface finish is rough, seems like paint overspray.   Price is $16 at LGS.  Seller offered to get the lower in spec so it can take any upper.   Also mentioned refinishing, but unsure if that would be included in price of $16k.   This is the first Sendra I have handled since I got my trust, I passed up an Oly and a SP1 several years ago when prices took a dip because everyone talked up how good Sendras are, have to say upon handling one I am disappointed.   Or does this one just need a bit of polish, dealer may let me consign a bunch of items to make up half or more of purchase price and only put 1/4 down cash.   Otherwise I would just pass for sure, I already got 3 SBR ARs because I gave up on ever having an M16.

Also, how did this marking under the selector come about?  Is it due to being a casting?   I noticed its similar to the one at this link:  http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1022-sendra-xm-15-e2-registered-receiver-fully-trans-41286/

Had no problem with mine.

Same forging as Colt. Sendra = Drasen.
Drasen family still M&A parts. M&A P arts = Pam Drasen

BFI= Bushmaster Firearms Inc.
They converted most of them.

So if it isn't marked BFI Windham ME...
It was a home converted or small C3.

Just like all the Cobray name changes through the years.

That is a Forged lower, not cast.

EDIT: In picture 4/5 of the link provided you can clearly see the seam from the forging process. On some of the older rifles such as sendra or Oly Arms they did not sand the seam, likely to save on cost to be competitive with colt. Also, cast lowers tend to be more boxy and will have raised letters not stamped or engraved.

The RR youre looking at has a full fence and is of the A1 design, honestly it looks pretty good. The anodizing will fade on a gun 40+ years old, not to mention the anodizing back then was not of the same quality seen on modern AR15s today, if you find a RR with mint finish it is either a safe queen never fired in which case you will be paying more than $16k or it was refinished, which does not hurt the value on a non-colt conversion rifle. Its very common for non-colt RR to have spec issues, the most common are the top deck and rear radius being to tall, front of the mag well rubbing the upper and tight mag wells, a quick trip to a gunsmith can resolve all of those issues. Try M60joe or USAnodizing. OThe spec issues were common because Colt never released dimensions for their rifle so competing companies just measured the Colt rifles and tried to replicate it so early models had minor flaws. Pay a gunsmith $500 to work on the rifle and you can save $5-10k compared to buying a Colt.

As for the take down pins being tough, that could be the RR or it could be the parts, i know my M16 was shipped with the worth possible parts possible. Unless its a colt with all matching parts most people strip the lower and rebuild with all brand new mil-spec or better parts.

IMO $16k is a very good deal, the very bottom of the price range right now. M16s non-colt RR are going up in value about $1k a year so i wouldnt wait to long, FWIW when i first realized you could legally buy a MG like 10 years ago an M16 was about $8k


Transferable M16 machine guns and estimated market values:
RLL $13-15k
RR AR15 Auto Conversion $16-19k
RR Colt M16 & M16A1 $21-26k
RDIAS $22-28k
RR Colt M16A2 $28-33k

Websites to watch for good deals on machine guns:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com
http://www.shootersdepot.com
http://www.atfmachinegun.com
http://www.autoweapons.com
http://www.impactguns.com
http://www.subguns.com
http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com
http://www.davidspiwak.com
http://dealernfa.com
http://www.gunbroker.com
http://www.nfasales.com
http://www.classiiidealers.com/
http://www.westernfirearms.com/
http://www.urban-armory.com/

Website that tracks machine gun values:
http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/

I would say go for it on this. I bought one of the Oly/SAW conversions from Davidspiwak.com at the first of the year. Mine had loose/enlarged take down pin holes at the rear as well as an out of spec rear radius/top of receiver. Look carefully at what you think is holding other uppers up. I thought that my deck was too high, but upon measuring and looking, I saw that it was the radius around the buffer tube that was holding things up. They took a grinder to my upper to make it fit half way and the rear take down pin was so tight you had to drive it out with a punch, which would explain the enlarged rear take down pin holes at the rear. I am in the process of having M60joe.com repair mine. It is currently in transit from him to US Anodizing for a refinish/ anodizing before it goes back to Joe for some work on covering up some old rack numbers that were electro-penciled on the left side. It isn't cheap work, but will be well worth the cost in having an in-spec receiver for 10k less than a Colt. Plus it will have been worked on by a pro known all over and that will only help on re-sale. Once mine gets back, I will update my posts on my other threads that I started back when I got mine. With your dealer being very flexible on this, I would go for it. Many have gone this route before you and many will follow. As long as you use a reputable gunsmith to fix the lower, you should be good to go.

Should I worry about lack of documentation or markings regarding whoever converted it?   Could it have been Sendra or at this point is it something that will never be known one way or the other.

Mags did drop free, even magpul 3rd gen which I find are the stickiest.   Also tried gen 2.

Obviously missing Auto markings, dealer seemed to indicate that could be included with the price.

For 16k you shoukd get a in spec refinished lower imo. Other wise buy it cheaper and send it out your self for repairs. Looks clean so did mine but was out of spec.

Make a complete list of everything that needs done even if it's something small like engraving the word "auto" or having that lower selector stop sanded down so it's smooth as now is the time to do it while it sits in NFA jail and you don't any to have to go back later to reanodize it again just because you decide a year from now that it would be nice to have safe semi auto engraved on the opposite side as well.

If you're up for it, you can bring the conversion into spec. Not all of them have the same issues, and not all of them are as easy as mine was. Here was my experience with a Frankford Arsenal (Olympic Arms) conversion. I am happy to say that the work that went into it was well worth it because it runs like a sewing machine with every upper I have tried (10.5", 16", ARAK 7.62x39, 300 blk and 22). Now if only I could get the 22 upper running as smoothly as the lower.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_23/434824_.html

Sendra lowers were not the same as Olympics. Not the same issues if there even are any.

This is why I suggested the thread I did. While a Sendra isn't an Olympic, it does not preclude them from having the same issues.

It doesn't work this way.

I have read more than one account that Olympics are actually built out of a better material and that Sendras often have voids in the material.  I was just hoping this Sendra would be good to go.   In fact, I wonder if an Olympic that has been reworked isn't a better RR than a Sendra that also needs to be reworked.

I do have an FNC and a Mac, otherwise I would jump on this regardless of the details.  I am moving and wouldn't mind getting rid of stuff by consignment, this gun came up and seemed like a good way to offload stuff at the shop vs. having to haul it to the new house.   For moving metal, LGS would use a local guy who seems to do good work, but this is an out of the ordinary piece.   For anodizing or refinish, unsure who they would use but I would guess its not US Anodizing.  

Sure I could ask for this and that, but given the price and my payment plans, I am not in a strong position to make demands.

I believe that is the seam from the forging die, not a weld.

Yes, i stand corrected. Not sure who told me they were forged in two pieces and then welded together but that is incorrect.

Pictures of a forged lower prior to the milling and finishing process.

I'm seeing 614s at about $20k-$21k. Just in the past few days.

They are in spec, no need to send out, no need for refinishing. Colt. So it says AR-15.  Big deal.

For $5k difference, plus cost of work, time in process, and risk /costs of sending out 2 or 4 ways (M60joe doesn't anodize), I don't know if the lower cost is worth it.

It's the risk of a fixer upper, err...  fixer lower?

Edit
David Spiwak has a 614 for about $20.5k...
http://www.davidspiwak.com/guns/colt-model-614/

I had all of my work done(milling, checking specs, anodizing, etc...) at usanodizing I was like $500 and I had it all done while I waited for my form 4 to be approved. If you want the pony roll mark go for it but for there is def money to be saved when buying a non-colt RR instead of colt. No right or wrong way, just different.

To each his own, as they say.

I could have saved a couple grand by buying a non-Colt gun, back in 1999. The difference in value now is 5 times that.

The difference now is a lot more than the difference then, so I can see why someone might want to save some dough.

$18k back then paid for a Colt M16A1, a Vector Uzi, and an HK MP5SD sear gun. Those were the days, I think.

Of course, I coulda bought a lot more back in 1975 when I first got interested but didn't because I was afraid of the process...

Although Pam did machine the Sendra receivers, she hasn't been affiliated with M&A Parts for years.

forged gun parts can look like cast.

they take a hot chunk of metal and hammer it into shape with giant dies

you can see Garand receivers getting hammer forged about 45% thru this video

http://www.forgeofinnovation.org/springfield_armory_1892-1945/Themes/Technology_and_Manufacture/World_War_II/M1_Production/M1_video.html


this video shows how 1911 frames are forged.




motorcycle connecting rods



aluminum


.

The person that converted my sendra had his name engraved under the pistol grip. I can't remember the name off hand but I looked it up, it was a well known person for conversions and he did a great job. My Sendra is defiantly a no frills lower but it runs 100%.

Saying the receiver is formed by welding a left half and a right half together is correct only if you are talking about the old US M3 or M3A1 "Grease Gun".  The two receiver halves were stamped out and then welded together.  Other receivers- nope.

Your useless trivia fact for the day.......