So... what cyclic rate do you get with the Colt LMG hydraulic buffer (and where did you get one) with the cut down MG-34 spring?  How many coils in the '34 spring total?  Or what is the at-rest spring length after cut down?  Which length buffer tube (A2/A3/carbine)?

Thanks!

Well, it would help if I actually READ the post!  That's what I get for trying to multi-task at work...

Yes, full length stock.

The other questions remain... cyclic speed, etc...

The MG 34 spring in 15" long now.  I have no idea where I got the LMG buffer, as I bought it a long time ago.  They're still around, but quite expensive.  I haven't yet found my notes from cyclic rate tests, but I think the cyclic rates were in the mid-500s to the mid-600s, depending on what you were shooting.  Tula/Wolf is pretty mild-mannered, so it made for a nice slow cyclic rate.  

And yes, this requires the use of a full-length buffer tube.

I just wanted to mention I contacted the guy about that plastic feed guide..he'll have more of them in a few weeks for $100 a piece...
Also while your talking springs I wanted to mention the MGI X2 was several inches longer than the Aires Spring and softer.

I haven't tried the expanded links..The few I have done seem to come out inconstant.. I received my materials to make  a better tool when I get a chance.
The gentleman who makes the guides says he uses unmodified links and stretching isn't necessary. I'm  hoping between the guide an a little stretching i'lI'll be G2G.

Well, this is why I was trying to get specific information on exactly what is happening when the gun stops working.  There are specific cures for specific problems and if the only info we have is "Gun don't work.", then it's very hard to diagnose the problem.  The filler block that Mark makes is to cure a specific condition where the nose of the bullet rises up a bit while it's being pushed forward and it hits the aluminum receiver just above the feed ramp cut into the top of the barrel.  This eventually digs a divot into the aluminum and any bullet nose that hits it will stop the round cold.  Mark's block will cure this, but if this isn't your problem then it won't help.

If you carefully note what is happening when the gun stops working instead of just racking the charging handle it would be very helpful.  A description is good, pictures are better.

Hi, and thanks for the reply!

I've been looking out there and found this:  http://www.buffertech.com/Enidine-AR-Restor-Hydraulic-Recoil-Buffer-Full-Stock-P193.aspx  

and this:  http://www.buffertech.com/KynSHOT-AR15-Full-Fixed-Stock-Precision-Hydraulic-Recoil-Damper-P326.aspx

Both seem reasonably priced... and I'm _assuming_ that they are equivalent replacements.  I would REALLY love to get that 500-600 RPM cyclic rate (instead of that crazy 1000+ it has now).

Anyone else working with these buffers (or maybe their hydraulic buffers for the carbine length stocks) on their Shrike?  I've already bought a new MG-34 spring, just need to measure it and cut it to length, or if you can suggest a specific number of coils...

Thanks!

By the way... nice looking setup!  I like the tripod adapter!

Another thing for you Shrike guys...

SOMEWHERE a long while back, I found someone who had made a top cover hold-open spring.  I just cannot find the link I once had.

It would be SO nice if something could be done to allow the addition of a top cover hold-open spring.  Anyone?

I have been running an MGI buffer in conjunction with a Sprinco "Blue" recoil spring for about two+ years, but have never been 100% happy with the ROF.  This combination  never reduced the recoil much more than a Colt X buffer and after about 1500rds the internal springs between the sliding weights inside the MGI buffer pretty much disintegrated.  I replaced the springs inside the MGI buffer with stronger/more robust springs and it has been running since, but I feel like I am on borrowed time with the MGI design.  Overall the ROF is around 800 to 850 rpm in this setup.

Don't get me wrong, the MGI is an improvement over a standard H3 that Ares recommends, but for approximately the same ROF as the MGI you could go with a Colt X buffer and get roughly the same ROF without the potential for spring failure inside the buffer.

I did actually order and receive one of the new Kynshot Carbine Hydraulic buffers this week from Buffer Tech.   My testing has been very limited so far with a 12" adjustable barrel with a XXX warrior suppressor installed , but the cyclic rate seem slower  like more in the low 700 rpms.

I also grabbed one of the full stock AR10 Kynshot buffers as well to see if it helps with the recoil and follow up shot placement on an Armalite AR10.

Overall my limited impression of the Kynshot buffers is it seems to be a well made component.   Only thing I noticed is the piston to round disk on the front (the part the contacts the carrier) seems to rely upon some mechanical staking.  I have been temped to hit it with the TIG welder to fuse the two parts together but figured I would wait to see if that joint fails first or not before performing the welding void warranty maneuver.  

Obviously this impression could change in the next couple months once I put a meaningful number of rounds through it.  It could end up being a great upgrade or a colossal piece of shit it if breaks apart and leaks fluid everywhere like the Endine Hydraulics had a reputation for.

The MG 34 spring I am using is now around 33-34 coils, but this is not a number that can be "plugged in" for any Shrike.  You need to clip off a coil at a time until things work the way you want them to.

I have an Enidine buffer and it's a waste of money in this specific application.  The LMG buffer weighs 10.25 oz., while the Enidine weighs 5.9.  While both are hydraulic, one weighs twice what the other does and that helps a lot.  As a comparison, I weighed some of the other buffers I found while looking for the LMG one:

LMG= 10.25 oz.
Enidine rifle= 5.9 oz.
9mm steel= 5.4 oz.
Std. rifle= 5.2 oz.
"H" buffer= 3.8 oz.

Some owners are wary of adding weight to the system as it does put more stress on the push rod and the lug on the bolt carrier that it pushes against, but the only case that I am aware of where the lug snapped off had nothing to do with extra weight- it just let go (if I'm remembering the old thread correctly).  I have quite a few rounds through my Shrike with the LMG buffer in it and it just keeps chugging along.

When Geoff designed the thing, there was a great emphasis on making it as small and light as possible.  It was really cool to see a belt-fed that would fit in a briefcase but the emphasis on small size and light weight (in my opinion, FWIW) took away from the reliability and the durability of the system.  There are some parts that just won't take heavy usage (like the charging handle) and should be made of steel.  Personally, I would prefer that the whole receiver be made of steel.  I want a belt-fed to act like an LMG, not a carbine that just happens to be fed from a belt, but I know other people have other preferences.  I find myself taking the 23E out a lot more than the Shrike, but that's just me.

The Shrike needs a monster recoil spring to drive rounds through the links and into the chamber.  In many cases where a Shrike just won't work, the owner isn't using the specific Shrike spring or they are using it in a full-length stock without the spacer to take up the extra length in the longer buffer tube.  Once that is straightened out and the right spring is used with the right buffer tube, then the problem with bullet tips hitting the receiver above the barrel is a very common problem.  Mark's plastic guide cures that.  If the upper still won't run, then there's something else going on that needs diagnosing.

FWIW

The discription I gave was the best I could do. For the most part once I opened the top cover the entire belt falls out or leaves what I described. the only thing I could add after a fail to strip sometimes the next round will be pushed forward enough to pull the tang of the  link out of the rim on the case. The "Leed" or perhaps "Lead"? Where  the bulloet projectile touches before going through the barrel extension. Is an area I examined, but  with  so few rounds there doesn't seem to be enough wear to  indicate anything.
I was just wonder if marks "Block" will keep the nose of the cartrage from  rising giving it a better line of travel.

I did make simple sizeing rod...it works acceptably. Well enough that I have 150 rdy to try When i go up north. Have to see how they work before I go any further with it.

I would be interested in some kind of top cover hold open feature, although I'll probably  just bring something to prop it up from now on.

As mentioned above, the block will keep the bullet nose from impacting above the feed ramp.  On the other hand, the block does nothing to keep the bolt from riding under the cartridge during the stripping process.

The links need to streatched as much as possible while still being able to hold the round. This means you have to custom fit each link.

Great information Dedeye.  I would really like to see how Slash's 10oz A5 heavy buffer combined with an MG34 spring and A5 receiver extension would perform.

 

Thanks for the help, I don't believe the bolt is riding under the cartrage.but as I said idk what I am talking about.
The links I was unhappy with I was snapping over a 7/16th SS round stock. Now that I am more of reaming them the are more consistant. The cartages don't feely spin but can be spun. As soon as there free of the retaining tang/tail they slide right out.. the side with the tail is slightly tighter than the more forward band.i'd say they are 60-70% easier to strip.
They measure .375-.380, I also try not to bend the tang unless it looks like it needs it.
I can't wait try them out

I ran another 400 Rd through her. It's better but I am less than impressed.I had to re rack about 3-5 times per 100.i also experienced 2 bolt ride under cartage failures.i had to open the top cover to clear those.Next time I will cull the offending links and see if it will run the rest cleanly.
After that I guess I'll have to try lube.i have graphite but the Instructions specifically said not to use graphite.
so I am thinking lanolin or paraffin. Lanolin can be sticky and will probably attract more filth than parafin.
I might try canuba wax, it's probably the best of the 3 but expensive and harder to get.
I was thinking about wd40 or clp. But I am looking for something primer safe that can be applied in advance rather that at the range.

It all sounds like a mess to me.
I'll also stretch them a little more .

If it is any help I use the silicon spray  lube that I get from home depot.



My basic process is to take the dirty links and put them in a 5 gallon bucket.  Fill it with hot water and dish soap and let it sit for 30 minutes or so to loosen up and dirt  and then roll around on my driveway with a lid on.

Repeat if the links are really dirty and then rinse with hot clear water.

I then lay them out on a canvas tarp to dry.

Once dry I put them back in the bucket and hit them with a bunch of silicon lube, roll them around to distribute lube all over the links, and then lay them back out to dry overnight.

I tried using WD40 and other traditional oils but that oil picks up every bit of dirt and then cleaning them afterwards is mess of WD40 and sand/dirt after they hit the ground.

The Silicon lube will dry to a film overnight and wont pick up dirt like regular spray oil does.

I can mail you a handful of my links  if you want to try them out to at least eliminate links as a potential issue in your setup.  Just PM if you are interested.

silicone.... that does sound like the right stuff.PM sent

Ok, I got 1100+ sized over the 7/16 shaft, then Snapping them off for a little extra stretch.
I've started using the silicone spray ,waiting a good 24 hours for them to dry off completely seems important..so it is a little slow to dry but does offer good coverage.
i'll say it again... it seems like the right stuff....

Next time i go to the range, i'm going to bring a respectable amount of ammo and just try to have fun while removing any temperamental links.
After they're all used i'm going to run them in the brass vibrator for awhile, clean, re-lubed then hopefully i'll get some full belts through her.

If it works better than my last trip i'll be pretty close to what i consider functioning, If makes me wonder if looser links especially the forward band make the problem of bolt under-ride worse.
I am also really starting to appreciate what it is to be a belt-fed owner.

if you want to sell it, let me know. i had problems with my shrike and got it running 100%. id love to have another again.

my fixes were as follows: defender D ring with new extractor spring

once fired links that were wet tumbled(this solved 100% of the stripping rounds from links problem). mine was a jam o matic POS before i tumbled the links and cleaned all the shit off them.

if you want to try some of the wet tumbled links, i still have some extras from when i sold my shrike. maybe 12-1500... or, you could sell me  your shrike at half price since it doesnt work right

Can you expand on this? Did you use a tumbler like for brass cartridges ect.

yes. i put 1000+ links in at one time in my large tumbler along with 30lbs or more of media(i have 50+ pounds dont ask why i just do... bought too much back in the day cause a bulk bag was cheaper)

just like wet tumbling brass. knocks any high spots off and they come out clean. takes a fan all of 5 minutes to completely dry the water off of them and bam, ready to load. they also smell good too depending on what soap you use. never had a single issue after i did that. no stretching required. they dont need to be retumbled again unless you are letting them hit the dirt or something like that. if they fall in a box or tarp or something no need to tumble again. once fired links are so dirty that they wont run until clean. you should also inspect links too after tumbling. i threw out 1-200 easily due to rust on the inside.

oh, i also forgot to mention that not one single time did i EVER spray the links with any kind of lube. I did lube the carrier as i would any other ar15 bcg, but never put any kind of lube on the links or anything. i dont think i got a magical shrike either... it wouldn't run worth a shit when i first got it. took me a while to get it running right... but it ran once i did the above mentioned.

but again, if mgnoob is convinced his upper doesn't work, im a buyer.

Was it stainless steel pin media?

yes. wet tumbled with 30+ pounds of SS media in a large bigdawg tumbler. let tumble for an hour. water came out black.

Thanks.

should I assume that the bulk links that I have are once fired?

did you buy them as new production? yes? then they are new.

did you buy them as whatever? are your hands dirty when you pick them up? probably once fired former saw links. these are the ones you want. they have already been "stretched" by being fired by the saw and dont need to be modified any further. just clean them well. wet tumbling works best(for me it solved my shrike issues).

Not so much.

I bought 20,000 "once fired" links from Old Sarges and every single one of them is extremely tight. So tight in fact, my Shrike can not strip them using an H3 buffer and the Ares main action spring.

Obligatory pic...

i didn't buy mine from sarge. did you wet tumble yours? i dont mean put in some water and swirl around for a few minutes. i mean wet tumble just like brass. there is a difference.


and not to disrespect sarge, but i am betting he buys them as lots. he doesn't know if they are once fired, or 50x fired. he assumes they are once fired because the military isn't going to pick these up. they COULD be new links. all the once fired links i purchased(5000) worked fine after wet tumbling.

They appeared to be once fired links, very good condition (basically new) that had signs of dirt and grass on them. About 1% of the links were bent/damaged and were disgarded.  After sorting the links, I tumbled them in a large industrial tumbler and then wash them afterwards. After drying, I spray them down with WD40 (hence the darker colored links in the pic).

Again, I've tried about everything under the Sun to get my Shrike to run reliably and the only thing that has worked so far is stretching the links.

that really stinks. sorry to hear about your shrike. since it doesnt function reliably, i would be happy to buy it at a discounted price if you want to sell it.

the wet tumbling is different from dry tumbling with cleaning. ill make you the same offer i made the other guy, ill be happy to let some of my links go if you want to test them out. they may not work in your gun, but it fixed my issues with feeding. i couldn't get more than 2-3 rounds to fire at once before a stoppage. wet tumbled the links and problem solved. it also polishes the links a little bit too, but not too much(they dont look shiny after). i think thats why they work

I was planning on vibratory because I didn't want a rusty mess.I have a 2 drum tumber wet SS  I built. I like the idea of trying that.

the silicone lube and stretched links really helped...I'm still getting Some of the bolt under cartage issue. An a occasional fail to strip. But it doesn't feel like I'm abusing the  charging handle anymore.
I do like the side charging handle... In a pinch it always works I'v  yet to "mortar" my shrike. I can never seem to get a good grip on the regular top charging handle.

I think I just need to keep removing links when there is some kind of malfunction and just be a little more picky when linking...
at first I thought it sucked because I couldn't use a linker. With how the links fit the cartrages now withe the lube. It's so  easy and gives you a  chance to inspect each link.
I also think the links could benifit from a good tumble polshing.

I bought some slick nickel plated links and they worked no better than the standard links.

Deleted

I have never been able to run my Shrike because of the same issues: 2-3 rounds then stop, cartridge jams, failure to strip, sometimes hammer follows.

In the few times it ran, it ran fast.

I tried stretching out the links. Lube.

I'm going to try the wet tumble the links.

I'm running a UBR, quarter spacer, H2 buffet, Ares spring, Geissele full auto trigger, 12.5" barrel, LC new ammo, once fired links with no hole. I know about the compressed buffer/bolt hitting rear of receiver/buffer tube issue.

I'll post if successful.

Same deal as me, but I  am currently running H3 buffer.

Try looser links..I'm at as loose as you could possibly go and it kind of works.

I've got one of those plastic guides coming hopefully in 3 weeks..

I'm trying to hold off on more testing till I get the guide.

Except I don't have hammer follow

I have the guide. It prevents wear on the aluminum, but does nothing for the stuttering shrike.

I wet tumbled a few hundred links, sprayed with silicone oil, and I'm going to stretch some, not others to test.

There is a lot of dirt on the links, and just trying a few push through so by hand the cartridges go through smoother now.

Now I've compared my links to jbntex's links. His seem to be stretched in between  once fired and my max stretch links...they are similar to my initial stretched ones that were still a little too tigh.
If we run it by him, I can send you his links and a handful of mine....I've been gradually increasing the amount of silicone lube I've been using..seems to be helping.
I's not to say jbntex links might work with a bit more of the lube..

I am excited to have the guide in hand.. I know everyone thinks it won't help the stripping issue..iI just hope by guiding the front for the cartage while keeping the rear of the cartrage from rising prematurely
will allow the forward stripping force to be more linear..
reguardless I'm at a point where I get as many fail to strip as I do bolt under ride...so I should see some improvement with the guide, while avoiding t b en wear that causes some people trouble down the line..

I'm almost to the point where I can post a mag dump video, just worried once I get the camera out it won't work.don't want to jinks myself.

I'm looking forward to seeing some video!

Man, I do have to say its disappointing this issue has not really been figured out yet.

Anyone try one of Tubbs flat wire springs?

I know the stretching is not a huge deal but really does not seem like something that should need to be done. Especially for a $5K upper.

I worked with a Gen 3 Shrike that had this issue. If you pushed up on the stock and front grip while holding the pistol grip down, it would feed fine. If not, they it did not feed. We also have another local Shrike that works 100% from the start. Gen 5. Knowing my luck it will not work...

Have we found out what perfect seem to have this issue? I would be interested to see what buffer tubes everyone is using. Just got a LMT for mine.

How does the M249 strip these no problem. Yet is seems lots of Shrikes have of issues...

I just finished transferring my M16 (RIA Sendra Conversion). I am a little broke now but plan to add a Shrike soon. It seems like info on the Shrike is hard to find. Any idea of Gen 6 Shrike will be coming out soon? Seems like they were steady putting out newer generations up to now.

Anyway, never good not to give back to a conversation. Here is a cool video of my first day out.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGHVqd6jGE[/youtube]

M249's BCG has more travel than the shrike will ever have.  The M249 also has a much higher bolt mass.  I believe the spring is stronger as well.  It all adds up to more energy available to strip rounds from the links.

I just bought a snap ring plier from HF for about $3. I used it to stretch out about 200 of my tumbled, silicone lubed links.

I got a feel for it pretty quick.

I check each one, testing with a live round.

The ones I overdid I gave a push to make it tighter, it's easy to get it right.

The ones which are still tight are given another stretch.

I measured the force to insert the round into the stretched link till it clicks at about 20 to 24 ounces.

I don't know how much the force is before stretching, but the slickness of the stretched ones is obvious to your fingers.

Edit:  For testing I've also linked up a few belts with the cleaned, lubed unstretched links. I have to say they linked nice and smooth, with only a bit more force required.

Cleaning and lube makes a huge difference to the amount of force required to link a round. So much smoother in, so maybe easier out.

We shall see how they compare.

OK so I realized my spring is not the Shrike spring, and I have a quarter in the buffer tube and not the aluminum spacer. So the Shrike parts go in, and today I have 3 belts with IMI M855 with un-stretched links, and 3 with stretched links to test.

After 2 of the stretched linked belts shot flawlessly in semi and full auto bursts, I shot a belt of un-stretched with similar results.

Partway into the 2nd un-stretched belt, I had a misfeed due to a failure to extract. The next round jammed into the back of the spent case. The bullet was pushed about 1/8" into the case.

After clearing it, another FTE happened and I checked the extractor which is cracked at the claw.

Lesson: with the correct spring and spacer, with stretched or un-stretched links, the gun runs.  But the extractor is broken.  I have about 1200 rounds through this gun. All with brass cased ammo.

I have a spare bolt to scavenge parts from, but I'll need more spares at this rate.

My setup has a Geissele full auto trigger, a Magpul UBR stock, and I was shooting the 12.5" adjustable barrel on the second setting (midrange), H2 buffer, and the feed tray plastic block..

Rate of fire sure is fast!

I'm glad to hear it's working.

I put in a new extractor and tried the gun again today with 3 belts of 30 rounds IMI M855 each. Cleaned, lubed and unstretched links.

All went well in semi, full in bursts and one belt dump, except one time where I put the belt in with the first link wrong.

It worked great, one belt with the 16" fixed gas setting barrel, and the other 2 with the 12.5" set at the second gas setting.

I had one failure to fully chamber when I tried the 3rd gas setting on the shorty barrel, just to see what would happen.

Finally a Shrike that works!

I called Ares yesterday to order some spare extractors and a spare roller stud. (Cost for 2 extractors and a roller stud was $330!! )

Here's a video with the shorty barrel and short bursts.

https://youtu.be/WrlP1s_pmuo

Here it is with a belt dump...

https://youtu.be/zoybWveSXqU

Good Deal!!! I guess I am gonna have to buy me a tumbler. I got some stretched links but I might need to clean them before linking. I have had some success with the stretched links before but sounds like cleaning might be the trick.

Good to hear faldoc.
i'm still a work in progress, since our setups are so similar it's encouraging.
I've yet to try an h2 buffer...So ill have to try that while testing.

I'm anxious can't wait for my next outing..I've got 2000 rds rdy to go.
I should have it all worked out after that.

God, $300 for 2 extractors and a roller? Brutal

Mine runs flawlessly:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlOkuvm9lfs

I knew parts are high but that floored me...

I'm just glad to have the thing working right. It's really my fault that it didn't: between the wrong spacer and spring, and dirty links, no wonder it didn't work.

I think the extractor is a weak design, or it had faulty machining: my Colt has an extractor with maybe 5,000 rounds and it looks great.

My Shrike hasn't had much through it...

The Shrike is a lot of compromises. I noticed that the newer model has a stronger rear lug design.

My Shrike's rear lug is held on by half the metal. If you bump it I'm sure it would bust right off.

Once you have yours running, 2,000 rounds will go really quick! It shoots so fast...

Mine certainly doesn't and won't even strip the first round (this when using the ARES main action spring along with an H2, H3 and even a heavy 9mm two piece mechanical buffer).  After cycling the charging handle (four or five times), the bullet gets smashed / set back into the brass which could potentially cause an over-pressure event. If I'm lucky enough to get a round to partially strip, the bolt usually rides under the cartridge and causes a fail to feed malfunction.

Recently, ARES Defense recommended I replace the receiver due to "excessive wear".  I've fired about 2,800 rounds and experienced about 450 bolt ride under malfunction during that time and the receiver is now deemed "worn out".

This POS has been an absolute nightmare up until I began stretching the links about a year ago.

YMMV

I also reuse all my links uncleaned out of the dirt and never clean the upper.....100% runner

All the links in that video were picked up, relinked, and another belt run.