Just bought my 1st M16........ - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Just bought my 1st M16........

Posted: 12/21/2014 5:41:33 PM EDT

Now the wait begins. I bought one of the 5 SAW Olympics that David Spiwak had for sale. I got #142. Which has the 24 inch barrel. If someone could link the pics to this post It would be greatly appreciated. Now, is there anything I need to get for it or look out for. I am thinking of getting the Geissele SSF trigger and KNS anti-rotation sear pin. And of course plenty of ammo.

Posted: 12/21/2014 6:24:32 PM EDT

[#1]

An upper that doesn't weigh a ton?
Maybe a 14.5?

here's the link you wanted

edit: These pictures were taken with a potato I believe. not mine

Posted: 12/21/2014 6:37:38 PM EDT

[#2]

Thanks. yeah, a beater upper or two will be in the cards as well.

Posted: 12/21/2014 6:51:56 PM EDT

[#3]

Geissele trigger and KNS pins http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/450129__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Geissele_Triggers_and_KNS_Anti_Rotational_Pins__Compatability_Confusion.html&page=2

Posted: 12/21/2014 7:12:12 PM EDT

[#4]

Who builds a gun like that with a 24" barrel???

Posted: 12/21/2014 8:42:06 PM EDT

[#5]

Supposedly it is a factory Olympic. He had 2- 24" guns and 3- 20 inch Olympics. All came from a police dept. He said the 24's looked practically brand new inside. I figured go ahead a spend a couple hundred more and get the best one of the bunch. The markings on the side are just PD rack markings and not manufacturer markings.

Posted: 12/21/2014 8:45:40 PM EDT

[#6]

Congrats!

I love the SSF.

Posted: 12/21/2014 9:21:14 PM EDT

[#7]

Congrats! It will be a fun gun.

I have a Geissle SSF in my Olympic lower, they say you don't need to use KNS pins with the geissle, only for mil spec triggers.

Other than that take advantage of the law that allows machine guns to have and barrel length and get something shorter than 16", I'm a big fan of my 10.5" mk18 upper but I hear and 11.5" commando is fun or just a standard 14.5" carbine is nice to although not much difference than a 16" really.

Posted: 12/22/2014 12:41:48 AM EDT

[#8]

Nice. David is a great dealer. Enjoy!

Posted: 12/22/2014 2:18:10 AM EDT

[#9]

Thanks for the link to the KNS/ Geissele thread. I actually got this reply back from them a few days ago before I knew about the thread. Some lively discussion in there

I was just planning on getting the one for the sear unless you all think that is a bad idea. I ask because I truly don't know and want to protect my investment. The above thread explains the trigger pin thing very well. All constructive advice welcomed.

James Clark (Geissele Automatics)

Dec 15 09:56 AM

Good Morning Jonathan,

Thank you for contacting us. We recommend using our pins that come with our triggers to ensure that they will function properly. The Geissele pins are precision ground and hardened to our specs. We recommend using our pins because we have found that other pins are not properly sized for our triggers and can be made out of a softer metal which may pull up burrs during installation causing the trigger to not perform as designed. If our pins are installed properly and the hammer spring is in the right position, there will not be an issue of the pins walking out of the lower receiver. I hope this helps.

Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

Kix

Kix

Dec 13 03:17 PM

Name :: Jonathan Kixmiller
Phone Number :: 3364160412
Email Address :: [email protected]
Products Requiring Support :: SSA & SSA-E Triggers
Message :: I am thinking of using the KNS Anti-rotating trigger and hammer pins on my AR-15 rifles that have the SSA and SSA-E triggers in them. Do you allow this or does it void the warranty. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you, Jon
]

Geissele Automatics
1920 W. Marshall Street.
Norristown, PA 19403
Phone (610) 272-2060 | Fax (610) 272-2069
This email is a service from Geissele Automatics. Delivered by Zendesk.

Posted: 12/22/2014 4:29:30 PM EDT

[#10]

FWIW, I have been running KNS anti rotation pins and a JP match trigger in my M16A1 for more than a decade.... maybe two decades now. Probably put 50k rounds through it in that time. Zero wear, zero adjustments.

I switched to the KNS pins (Gen. 1.5) after breaking the factory Colt pins yet having my '16 keep running, but with the halves in there wobbling around. Thank God there was no damage, but there would have been in short time.

The JP trigger is, IMHO, exactly like the Geissele trigger, except the Geissele trigger comes pre-adjusted for engagement and overtravel. while the JP requires you to set it up yourself. At one point I swapped the JP out for the Geissele and preferred my settings, so I went back to the JP.

The fact that the JP costs less than half of the Geissele was not a factor. Though one of the reasons I bought an M16A1 instead of an A2 was because I could see no benefit from the additional expense, so maybe I'm just cheap.

An M16 trigger should be precise, repeatable, durable and stay in adjustment for decades, and still allow me to pull singles and doubles on FA with pure finger control. Both the JP and Geissele do that in my experience.

YMMV.

Posted: 12/22/2014 9:37:47 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:

Though one of the reasons I bought an M16A1 instead of an A2 was because
I could see no benefit from the additional expense, so maybe I'm just
cheap.

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You mean to tell us you've never used your registered M16 as a melee weapon?

Posted: 12/22/2014 10:00:19 PM EDT

[#12]

Congratulations, you appear to have gotten a great rifle and David is a real class act.

Posted: 12/22/2014 10:44:30 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

You mean to tell us you've never used your registered M16 as a melee weapon?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Though one of the reasons I bought an M16A1 instead of an A2 was because I could see no benefit from the additional expense, so maybe I'm just cheap.

You mean to tell us you've never used your registered M16 as a melee weapon?

"melee weapon"?

My TEOTWAWKI setup is the M16A1 with my Colt LMG upper and Betamags, my Colt 6933 with SlideFire/12" Shrike upper as the obligatory belt-fed, and my suppressed Uzi SMG with subsonics for CQB. Lots of suppressed handguns and short shotties, too, but only to fight my way to the MGs.

Yeah, I know, I'm way, way underequipped, but at my age I doubt I'll live long enough to actually see TEOTWAWKI.

Anyway, the Giessele is a great trigger. I understand why folks love them. But I do prefer the JP, just 'cause it fulfills my need as well, for less cost, and has done so for so very long. I stopped needing the latest-and-greatest thing when I traded up to my third (and current) wife. Just can't afford upgrading anymore.

Posted: 12/23/2014 12:07:25 AM EDT

[#14]

In case anyone else is wondering, I was referring to the M16A2 receiver reinforcements, which make it less likely to break at the receiver extension boss and front pivot pin area due to stresses like impacting people's faces and whatnot.
Very nice Tony!

OP, yours is nice also.

Posted: 12/23/2014 12:39:22 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:
In case anyone else is wondering, I was referring to the M16A2 receiver reinforcements, which make it less likely to break at the receiver extension boss and front pivot pin area due to stresses like impacting people's faces and whatnot.

Very nice Tony!

OP, yours is nice also.

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Aha. My reading comprehension fails me yet again.

Maybe I jumped out of one too many Hueys.

Posted: 12/23/2014 12:52:50 PM EDT

[#16]

OP, my first suggestion would be what I tell all buyers of transferable M16s:

These are all at least 28 years old and have been through an unknown number of owners, so the first thing should be to strip the lower completely and replace every spring, pin and the FCG with brand spankin' new mil spec Colt parts. That gives you a reference point. And if it doesn't run with those, you know that the receiver itself has spec issues and needs to visit M60Joe to be brought into spec.

Some (but not all) Oly/PAWS receivers also had spec issues regarding fit to upper receivers. At the time when Oly built the host lowers, there were few spare uppers available, so they only needed to fit the upper it shipped with.

My Oly/PAWS fit fine with every different Colt upper I tried (about a dozen) but my early Shrike would just not fit it. The gentleman I sold it discovered that his PWS mk107 also would not fit.

Again, these issues can be fixed relatively cheaply by having a pro bring it into spec. If yours is a keeper, and you run into any issues, you might consider having that done.

Anyway, once you get it set up, plan on changing the hammer and trigger springs every 10k rounds if you are only shooting 5.56 in 11.5" or longer barrels. If you plan on shooting other calibers or shorter uppers, bump that to a spring change every 5k rounds. MGs wear out springs exponentially faster than semis do. It's like changing the oil in your car -- fresh springs greatly reduce wear on both your lower and on the FCG parts themselves.

HTH.

Posted: 12/23/2014 12:54:43 PM EDT

[#17]

Topic Moved

Posted: 12/24/2014 1:19:00 AM EDT

[#18]

Where is a good place to buy genuine colt fire control parts and springs. Brownells seems to be out of stock on a bunch of stuff. I see a lot of DPMS full auto parts. Are they any good or do I need to stay with colt? I bought a complete full auto lower parts kit a few years back at a local gun show but they were in a plain box and I don't know if it is just a bunch of parts thrown together by someone looking to make a quick buck or if the parts are legit. Thanks for your input Tony. I was seriously thinking of jumping on yours when you sold it a few months back, but the funds weren't quite there yet and it sold fast........Now after looking at Brownells, it looks like my trigger and hammer are Colt

. Should I use the "extra power" springs or stick with the standard? I assume that once I start changing uppers I will be needing different weight buffers and recoil springs as well. I will most likely go to a carbine length adjustable buffer tube. All help appreciated.

Here are some pics of the parts with markings, the rest seem to be your typical springs, detents, and such.

Posted: 12/24/2014 3:45:13 AM EDT

[#19]

Those are all legit full auto parts. Whether they meet your, or someone else's, "Colt standard" I dunno.

If you want Colt, backorder from Brownell's or go to SAW LE Sales, or the like, or give what you got a try.

Posted: 12/24/2014 3:01:14 PM EDT

[#20]

Stag makes good parts. M&A sells stag lower parts kits for a price that isn't insane like the colt parts are. I just bought a SSA for my Oly actually and it is a fantastic upgrade.

IMO the first stop any olympic should be making is at m60joe to have everything gone over and put into spec, and then to be reanodized at US Anodizing or somewhere similar. Do you really want to modify every upper you buy to fit an out of spec receiver? I sent mine off while it was still at my dealers and got a weapon that was in perfect factory spec when the form 4 was finally approved. Those guns are a pretty good deal in todays market and the Olys are still the best value in m16s as far as I'm concerned.

Posted: 12/24/2014 5:25:36 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
Stag makes good parts. M&A sells stag lower parts kits for a price that isn't insane like the colt parts are. I just bought a SSA for my Oly actually and it is a fantastic upgrade.

IMO the first stop any olympic should be making is at m60joe to have everything gone over and put into spec, and then to be reanodized at US Anodizing or somewhere similar. Do you really want to modify every upper you buy to fit an out of spec receiver? I sent mine off while it was still at my dealers and got a weapon that was in perfect factory spec when the form 4 was finally approved. Those guns are a pretty good deal in todays market and the Olys are still the best value in m16s as far as I'm concerned.

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FYI Victor at US Anodizing will also bring a lower to proper spec.

Posted: 12/24/2014 7:22:05 PM EDT

[#22]

Congrats! I too made that same purchase not too long ago. Check my thread for possible issues and what it may need to bring it into spec:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_23/434824_Frankford_Arsenal_Oly_conversion____my_experience_from_the_beginning_.html

Posted: 12/25/2014 12:50:49 AM EDT

[#23]

I bought a set of Bushmaster F/A parts for my RDIAS back in the day. You have to send them a copy of your Form 4 but the were the best balance of price and reputation at the time (for me). Given current prices On F/A items, I would buy Colt now or spring for the SSA setup. While it is counter-intuitive to some degree, a good trigger is actually MORE important on a F/A firearm compared to a semi gun where one pull always equals one round fired.

Posted: 1/1/2015 5:55:56 PM EDT

[#24]

I suggest you get a few different uppers. 14 or 16 for serious use and maybe a 10 or 11" for fun. Also get a lower parts kit for a back up. Also a SERIOUS reloading setup and components. You will blow through more 223/556 ammo in your first 6 months or year than you have in the last 10.

Posted: 1/1/2015 5:57:21 PM EDT

[#25]

Also yea those days kits or others are fine. Colt parts are not necessary. More expensive and work just the same. In fact I've used this set from DoubleStar for over 10 rounds with no problems.

http://www.star15.com/m16_fire_control_group.html

Posted: 1/1/2015 10:58:56 PM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:
Also yea those days kits or others are fine. Colt parts are not necessary. More expensive and work just the same. In fact I've used this set from DoubleStar for over 10 rounds with no problems.

http://www.star15.com/m16_fire_control_group.html

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Good to hear that you've had good experience with the DoubleStar FCG. But they are not a .gov contractor, and we are not talking about just getting something that's as cheap as possible. Instead, I was recommending getting a Colt FCG as a reference set, for use when troubleshooting other non-Colt additions. Colt FCG parts are mil spec because they are military contractors, and for reference work, IMHO it is best to have those on hand when trying to debug non-milspec configurations.

At least, that is my experience. Your Mileage May Vary.

Posted: 1/2/2015 1:37:10 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Also yea those days kits or others are fine. Colt parts are not necessary. More expensive and work just the same. In fact I've used this set from DoubleStar for over 10 rounds with no problems.

http://www.star15.com/m16_fire_control_group.html

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I look forward to the report after your 11th round.... :D

Posted: 1/2/2015 12:26:41 PM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:

I look forward to the report after your 11th round.... :D

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Quoted:

Also yea those days kits or others are fine. Colt parts are not necessary. More expensive and work just the same. In fact I've used this set from DoubleStar for over 10 rounds with no problems.

http://www.star15.com/m16_fire_control_group.html

I look forward to the report after your 11th round.... :D

lmao. ^^^^^

Posted: 1/2/2015 12:59:06 PM EDT

[#29]

Nice; try to put is as many Colt internals as possible, maybe get a nice Colt M4 upper or just go full retro and get the A1 upper.

Posted: 1/3/2015 1:04:27 AM EDT

[#30]

So are those parts that I took close ups of real Colt parts?

Plus the other pics on page 1. The pics of the Double Star page had the same markings I think?

Or did they just "steal" some generic pics from Colt? As I said in my earlier post, I got those parts in a "generic" M16 parts kit at a gun show a few years back. I am just trying to figure out if I have some decent parts or not.

Posted: 1/3/2015 1:24:48 AM EDT

[#31]

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So are those parts that I took close ups of real Colt parts?

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Don't know if they're decent or not, but they do not appear to be Colt. Just contract spares.

Posted: 1/3/2015 2:27:32 PM EDT

[#32]

A transferable M16 is a valuable irreplaceable commodity. I cannot understand why anyone would buy "just as good as" parts for a transferable m16 lower. This is not the place to go cheap - buy either Colt or better yet, buy Colt and add a Geissle SSF.

Posted: 1/3/2015 4:11:29 PM EDT

[#33]

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Quoted:
A transferable M16 is a valuable irreplaceable commodity. I cannot understand why anyone would buy "just as good as" parts for a transferable m16 lower. This is not the place to go cheap - buy either Colt or better yet, buy Colt and add a Geissle SSF.

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I've never understood the "I'll pay $20000+ for a M16 but $200 +/- for a colt FCG is just too much" attitude.

Posted: 1/3/2015 7:55:31 PM EDT

[#34]

A Geissele SSF is certainly on my buy list while waiting on my paperwork. Just trying to learn some of the basics. Parts for my uzi were very eazy to figure out

Just making sure that I do the best I can for my gun. Once it gets to my FFL, we will inspect it and take it for a test run, see if other uppers will work, and send to M60Joe if necessary.

Posted: 2/13/2015 8:47:32 PM EDT

[#35]

It showed up at my dealer!!!!!!! Now to send it to M60Joe for some work...........

I wan't to see if I can get the "rack numbers" removed without it looking to obvious something was there, if not i'll leave them.

Posted: 3/1/2015 4:16:23 PM EDT

[#36]

I love my PAWS and agree it's the best value in the game. I was also lucky enough to get my hands on one of the in spec factory M16 (except for the sear pin hole) and have NEVER had any fitment issues with any of the many, many uppers I have ran on it. I can also say, while I'm not sure if it's the reason all the uppers run like sewing machines, I have an AAC Rate Reducing buffer that (I installed when I got my LRM M169 upper YEARS ago) works amazingly. Colt innards, SSF and KNS mod 2 pins + sear pin seem to be keeping everything in check. M60Joe will do you right and after re-anodizing, it will look and then fit like new. I had Joe look over a EA RR and then sent it out to US Annodizing. Good stuff, great stuff!

IMO, number 1 priority thanks to our goberment dreaming up ways to restrict us, is ammo.

Oh, and WELCOME TO THE CLUB. I kind of blame Tony for a lot of my MG/NFA buying issues, it's nice because he doesn't mind and cannot really be held accountable. Lol

Posted: 3/1/2015 7:22:18 PM EDT

[#37]

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(snip) I kind of blame Tony for a lot of my MG/NFA buying issues, it's nice because he doesn't mind and cannot really be held accountable. Lol

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Well, thank you .... I guess.

I know I am hopelessly addicted to full-auto (and other NFA, but nothing beats a mag-dump or long belt for experiencing the joys of freedom).

After so many decades infecting others ... well, if I had $1 for every MG I convinced folks to buy, I could at least buy a new M11/9 ... or maybe even an FNC or AR180, the guns I wish I had.

You can never own enough MGs.

Posted: 3/3/2015 2:32:18 AM EDT

[#38]

Congrats!

Posted: 3/9/2015 8:11:13 AM EDT

[#39]

Congratulations.

That will place an ear-to-ear grin on everyone who pulls the trigger with the selector set to orgasm.

I cannot find the pics of which you speak. It appears he has removed the listing.

I would recommend getting a shorter barrel, or a new upper with a shorter barrel. 24" is LoOoong.

I've a bunch of uppers , but the one I enjoy most with my FA is a 14.5" Colt HBAR that I converted to gas piston with an Adams Arms kit. It runs great and lower receiver is clean as can be when done shooting.

Posted: 3/9/2015 8:16:22 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

Where is a good place to buy genuine colt fire control parts and springs. Brownells seems to be out of stock on a bunch of stuff. I see a lot of DPMS full auto parts. Are they any good or do I need to stay with colt? I bought a complete full auto lower parts kit a few years back at a local gun show but they were in a plain box and I don't know if it is just a bunch of parts thrown together by someone looking to make a quick buck or if the parts are legit. Thanks for your input Tony. I was seriously thinking of jumping on yours when you sold it a few months back, but the funds weren't quite there yet and it sold fast........Now after looking at Brownells, it looks like my trigger and hammer are Colt

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If you want genuine Colt parts contact Dennis Todd at DToddmg @ AOL.com. He has the best selection I have seen. He travels around the east coast gun shows full time and brings his collection with him. May be one in your area you can meet him at or he will also send parts to you.

ETA

Maybe later today when I have some time I will check my Colt FCG parts kit to see how the markings match up to yours. I'm pretty sure I have a spare one, though it's not for sale.

Posted: 5/29/2015 6:42:20 PM EDT

[#41]

I was expecting to wait at least 9 months but my dealer called me this morning and said that my 2 Form 4's were back. 1 for the Olympic SAW M-16 and the other for an Uzi suppressor. I mailed them off on Feb 10, 2015 they were approved May 24th and in my hands May 29th. That is just a little over 3-1/2 months

Now I have to get serious about sending this to M60 Joe for the cleanup.

Posted: 7/7/2015 10:25:08 PM EDT

[#42]

Sent the stripped receiver off to M60 a couple of weeks ago. He said that he had a lot of work at the moment so now the wait begins. I have seen on this board many different types of problems with these out of spec receivers so I am curious as to what he finds with mine...........,

Posted: 7/7/2015 10:35:58 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sent the stripped receiver off to M60 a couple of weeks ago. He said that he had a lot of work at the moment so now the wait begins. I have seen on this board many different types of problems with these out of spec receivers so I am curious as to what he finds with mine...........,

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prob just deck to high, did you check your mag well with different mags?

Posted: 7/8/2015 12:04:17 PM EDT

[#44]

I measured the deck and it was low enough. It is the actual radius. I have tried various mags (p-mags, metal c products, old colt, and surefire ). They all worked fine. A buddy sold me a hydraulic buffer and I love how it reduces the rate of fire to what my uzi is. The rear take down pin is kind of wobbly as well and I will get Joe's opinion on that as well.

Posted: 10/16/2015 11:31:22 PM EDT

[#45]

Ok, it has been a long process but the end is here. Sent it to M60 around the end of June and got it back on September 10th. Man I spent more than I wanted but buy once, cry once. And who in their right mind would half ass a repair job by not getting everything done properly..........
Machine the top surface and buffer tube radius $170.00
Replace both rear take down pin holes $310.00
US Anodizing and shipping $388.00
Fill in the markings $280.00
Shipping USPS Registered $24.00
Total: $1172.00

Sure, I could have saved $600 by not messing with the take down pins or the rack marks, but what the hell, it is just money and it will come right back if I ever sell. I thank Spooky for strongly encouraging me to get the pins done right. The before pics are above so here are the after.......

The only thing I could have done was to get the Auto stamped on it, but I forgot all about that until too late........
And man, those old Olympics were stamped light!!!!!!

I just got to feeling better the past few days from having my back fused at the end of Sept. (L4-L5-S1) and being in the hospital for 5 days so forgive me for being not updating this earlier.
I'll post assembled pics when I get a chance.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Just bought my 1st M16........

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