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Page Armory » M-16
Posted: 8/15/2014 7:10:08 AM EDT
I was reading an article, and I suspect some of the info may be a bit outdated. M16 vs AR15 FC items. I see widely available M16 bolt carriers, so I presume they are no longer NFA items. What about hammers, triggers, selectors or disconnectors? Are M16 FC parts legal to possess? I hope this is not an illegal question.
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 7:20:45 AM EDT
[#1]
If you have an M16 FCG installed, you better have a Form 4 to go along with it.




Link Posted: 8/15/2014 8:14:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I was reading an article, and I suspect some of the info may be a bit outdated. M16 vs AR15 FC items. I see widely available M16 bolt carriers, so I presume they are no longer NFA items. What about hammers, triggers, selectors or disconnectors? Are M16 FC parts legal to possess? I hope this is not an illegal question.
View Quote

Legal to possess, but don't install them.
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 10:55:53 AM EDT
[#3]
I never understood this.

There is clearly an NFA publicized ruling stating specifically that M16 BCG are not to be installed in an AR15.
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 11:16:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I never understood this.

There is clearly an NFA publicized ruling stating specifically that M16 BCG are not to be installed in an AR15.
View Quote

Not a ruling - phrased as "IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES" and advising against assembling a semi auto with unmodified full auto fire control parts and unmodified full auto bolt carrier.  As a suggestion it does not have the force of law behind it as it would if it were an official ruling.

The position of the ATF has always been that the combination is only illegal if it results in a gun which fires more than once per pull of the trigger.  Over time, ATF has decided that a full auto bolt carrier, by itself, will not result in an illegal combination, despite their 30-year old guidance advising otherwise.
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 1:17:35 PM EDT
[#5]
If this is the case, then an M16 FCG installed would not violate NFA rules, as long as there is no auto sear (or AS pin hole), or a DIAS installed or readily available?
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Not a ruling - phrased as "IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES" and advising against assembling a semi auto with unmodified full auto fire control parts and unmodified full auto bolt carrier.  As a suggestion it does not have the force of law behind it as it would if it were an official ruling.

The position of the ATF has always been that the combination is only illegal if it results in a gun which fires more than once per pull of the trigger.  Over time, ATF has decided that a full auto bolt carrier, by itself, will not result in an illegal combination, despite their 30-year old guidance advising otherwise.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I never understood this.

There is clearly an NFA publicized ruling stating specifically that M16 BCG are not to be installed in an AR15.

Not a ruling - phrased as "IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES" and advising against assembling a semi auto with unmodified full auto fire control parts and unmodified full auto bolt carrier.  As a suggestion it does not have the force of law behind it as it would if it were an official ruling.

The position of the ATF has always been that the combination is only illegal if it results in a gun which fires more than once per pull of the trigger.  Over time, ATF has decided that a full auto bolt carrier, by itself, will not result in an illegal combination, despite their 30-year old guidance advising otherwise.

Link Posted: 8/15/2014 1:20:23 PM EDT
[#6]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If this is the case, then an M16 FCG installed would not violate NFA rules, as long as there is no auto sear (or AS pin hole), or a DIAS installed or readily available?




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Quoted:


If this is the case, then an M16 FCG installed would not violate NFA rules, as long as there is no auto sear (or AS pin hole), or a DIAS installed or readily available?


Quoted:


Quoted:

I never understood this.



There is clearly an NFA publicized ruling stating specifically that M16 BCG are not to be installed in an AR15.


Not a ruling - phrased as "IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES" and advising against assembling a semi auto with unmodified full auto fire control parts and unmodified full auto bolt carrier.  As a suggestion it does not have the force of law behind it as it would if it were an official ruling.



The position of the ATF has always been that the combination is only illegal if it results in a gun which fires more than once per pull of the trigger.  Over time, ATF has decided that a full auto bolt carrier, by itself, will not result in an illegal combination, despite their 30-year old guidance advising otherwise.


I believe that you are correct.

 
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 1:41:11 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
If this is the case, then an M16 FCG installed would not violate NFA rules, as long as there is no auto sear (or AS pin hole), or a DIAS installed or readily available?
View Quote


It is a clear violation as it will fire full-auto. And this is why ATF recommends you do not install/possess, as most folks do not know which part is 1 part too many.

Now let us see what the law says:

(b) Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.


Note the last sentence. This is why if you own an AR-15, you cannot own a M16 FCG. And you cannot give it to your brother either.
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 1:45:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
If this is the case, then an M16 FCG installed would not violate NFA rules, as long as there is no auto sear (or AS pin hole), or a DIAS installed or readily available?

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If this is the case, then an M16 FCG installed would not violate NFA rules, as long as there is no auto sear (or AS pin hole), or a DIAS installed or readily available?
Quoted:
Quoted:
I never understood this.

There is clearly an NFA publicized ruling stating specifically that M16 BCG are not to be installed in an AR15.

Not a ruling - phrased as "IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES" and advising against assembling a semi auto with unmodified full auto fire control parts and unmodified full auto bolt carrier.  As a suggestion it does not have the force of law behind it as it would if it were an official ruling.

The position of the ATF has always been that the combination is only illegal if it results in a gun which fires more than once per pull of the trigger.  Over time, ATF has decided that a full auto bolt carrier, by itself, will not result in an illegal combination, despite their 30-year old guidance advising otherwise.


ATF has addressed this - if the resultant firearm does not fire automatically, it's not a machinegun, and without testing a particular firearm that has been assembled with an M16 FCG, they do not categorically classify all AR-15s with M16 FCG parts as machineguns.  However, the ATF also warns that they're pretty certain they can cause any semi auto AR-15 with a full M16 FCG installed to do just that; and they've only got to get it to slamfire once to make their case...

So basically, it's legal unless you get caught being not legal with it.  See US v. Olafson, and either don't do it, or make sure you never get caught with such a rifle doubling on you.
Link Posted: 8/15/2014 4:24:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

ATF has addressed this - if the resultant firearm does not fire automatically, it's not a machinegun, and without testing a particular firearm that has been assembled with an M16 FCG, they do not categorically classify all AR-15s with M16 FCG parts as machineguns.  However, the ATF also warns that they're pretty certain they can cause any semi auto AR-15 with a full M16 FCG installed to do just that; and they've only got to get it to slamfire once to make their case...

So basically, it's legal unless you get caught being not legal with it.  See US v. Olafson, and either don't do it, or make sure you never get caught with such a rifle doubling on you.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
If this is the case, then an M16 FCG installed would not violate NFA rules, as long as there is no auto sear (or AS pin hole), or a DIAS installed or readily available?
Quoted:
Quoted:
I never understood this.

There is clearly an NFA publicized ruling stating specifically that M16 BCG are not to be installed in an AR15.

Not a ruling - phrased as "IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES" and advising against assembling a semi auto with unmodified full auto fire control parts and unmodified full auto bolt carrier.  As a suggestion it does not have the force of law behind it as it would if it were an official ruling.

The position of the ATF has always been that the combination is only illegal if it results in a gun which fires more than once per pull of the trigger.  Over time, ATF has decided that a full auto bolt carrier, by itself, will not result in an illegal combination, despite their 30-year old guidance advising otherwise.


ATF has addressed this - if the resultant firearm does not fire automatically, it's not a machinegun, and without testing a particular firearm that has been assembled with an M16 FCG, they do not categorically classify all AR-15s with M16 FCG parts as machineguns.  However, the ATF also warns that they're pretty certain they can cause any semi auto AR-15 with a full M16 FCG installed to do just that; and they've only got to get it to slamfire once to make their case...

So basically, it's legal unless you get caught being not legal with it.  See US v. Olafson, and either don't do it, or make sure you never get caught with such a rifle doubling on you.


This bears repeating.

Mere possession of M16 fire control parts and a semi-auto AR can trigger seizure of the lot, then subsequent installation and testing under Constructive Possession. They do not need to be installed in the gun. As stated, if they can get the resulting firearm to fire just twice, even if it jams on the third, then they have you.

Do not possess much less install M16 fire control parts in your semi-auto. A bolt carrier is fine, but leave the other parts semi-auto.

Link Posted: 8/15/2014 5:57:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I never understood this.

There is clearly an NFA publicized ruling stating specifically that M16 BCG are not to be installed in an AR15.
View Quote


This letter from ATF states that an M16 Bolt Carrier in an AR15 is not an issue.

ATF BCG Letter
Link Posted: 8/16/2014 4:28:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Many current model semi auto Colts ship with m16 carriers.  This issue is a done deal as long as that is the case.

While possession of a m16 fcg on its own is not illegal, if you find yourself in court you had better be able to explain a legal reason why you have it.  A long time ago.... A family member put a m16 fcg in a semi lower minis sear obviously....  It would absolutely fire on burst full auto.  It runs away and jams but more than one round came out just about every time he tried.  He pulled the parts and chucked them...  People will argue about this and claim atf does magic to make it happen but it's quite simple.  Don't have a m16 fcg unless you have a stamp for it....  
Page Armory » M-16
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