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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:24:20 AM EDT
[#1]
There is a market of fake Colts starting up in Europe.
That might be real. Yes, you could drop a Semi Auto FCG into any Full Auto M16/M4/Etc. Yes, U.S. law states that once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:28:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
There is a market of fake Colts starting up in Europe. I've heard about this, hence my questions. Yes, you could drop a Semi Auto FCG into any Full Auto M16/M4/Etc. Thanks! Yes, U.S. law states that once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun. Even if it was never registered in the US? I'm guessing, if these are real, that they are from a US overseas base or something and were sold to local government. Many European countries are more open about selling surplus gun parts. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:30:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a market of fake Colts starting up in Europe. I've heard about this, hence my questions. Yes, you could drop a Semi Auto FCG into any Full Auto M16/M4/Etc. Thanks! Yes, U.S. law states that once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun. Even if it was never registered in the US? I'm guessing, if these are real, that they are from a US overseas base or something and were sold to local government. Many European countries are more open about selling surplus gun parts. Do you think the act of registering it made it a machine gun? Or would it be the mechanical action of the firearm? |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:36:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Do you think the act of registering it made it a machine gun? Or would it be the mechanical action of the firearm? Well logically, of course it is a machine gun, but what the ATF thinks is often a different story. Right now it's just a piece of metal with some roll marks on it. I know people have imported and welded split bren gun receivers (which are no doubt machine guns), to make semi auto Bren guns. If I cut this thing in half, sent it to myself and welded it back together, would it still be a machine gun? |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:43:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
-Would these be considered a Machine Gun even without a F/A fcg if one did import one? Now I'm not really considering importing one as that would be a huge PITA and would have to go through a licensed importer..... The receiver is considered a machine gun by ATF. You could not import one (even through a licensed importer) as it would require being on the registry. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:45:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you think the act of registering it made it a machine gun? Or would it be the mechanical action of the firearm? Well logically, of course it is a machine gun, but what the ATF thinks is often a different story. Right now it's just a piece of metal with some roll marks on it. I know people have imported and welded split bren gun receivers (which are no doubt machine guns), to make semi auto Bren guns. If I cut this thing in half, sent it to myself and welded it back together, would it still be a machine gun? If you cut it in half, brought back just the magazine well w/ the roll marks, then welded it to an 80% receiver you hogged out yourself, and marked your manufacture place & date on the underside of the receiver alongside the trigger, you should be ok. Don't try to bring back anything w/ the 3rd hole of happiness in it - and I wouldn't keep a FA receiver on gov't property, whether your office or base housing. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 6:47:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Generally, in Europe the bolts and barrels are the controlled components. Kind of like the old pre-68 US dewat standards (but a stricter). Weld/drill holes in the barrel, weld the barrel to the receiver, grind off the bolt face, and it is no longer a firearm.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:52:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Idk if this has been talked about already or not I've been off the For a few weeks. Well anyway I was in cabelas and saw a colt .22lr Set up nj style with no flash hider and an a2 stock. The lower was Marked m16a2 with the third hole. Also the switch could be put into the 3rd Posisition. They zip tie their rifles so I couldn't get a look inside. I brought It to an employees attention on how the third hole was an ATF no no and he Just looked at me like I had 3 heads. So I asked if I could see the inside and he Said no and took the rifle in the back. He said if I would like to buy it I would have to Take a number from gun department. Then after purchasing I could remove the zip ties. Funny m16 lower story I figured I share. I still haven't heard anything about that .22 colt Or what it's deal was. That is NOT how to write Haiku. Was the 3rd Hole of Happiness on both sides, or only on the right? Lol haiku... That's funny shit |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:06:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks, I guess I'll keep that on the back burner for now, although I have to say the prospect is tempting. Any particular reason for doing just the magwell though? It'd be a shame to lose the manufacture roll marks next to the selector. No worries about gov''t property either, private sector here
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:17:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Just to make it clear this site specializes in replica and deactivated weapons. As such none of the stuff on their site would actually work. They are for folks who want to build replicas and not actual firearms.
In any event getting a full auto is a big no no unless you go through the proper channel. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:18:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Idk if this has been talked about already or not I've been off the
For a few weeks. Well anyway I was in cabelas and saw a colt .22lr Set up nj style with no flash hider and an a2 stock. The lower was Marked m16a2 with the third hole. Also the switch could be put into the 3rd Posisition. They zip tie their rifles so I couldn't get a look inside. I brought It to an employees attention on how the third hole was an ATF no no and he Just looked at me like I had 3 heads. So I asked if I could see the inside and he Said no and took the rifle in the back. He said if I would like to buy it I would have to Take a number from gun department. Then after purchasing I could remove the zip ties. Funny m16 lower story I figured I share. I still haven't heard anything about that .22 colt Or what it's deal was. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:23:42 AM EDT
[#12]
I had a nice collection of "wall hangers" when I was stationed over there, all with ground down bolt faces and welded up/drilled out barrels. fxo MP44, dot 44 MG34, duv44 G-43.....
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:29:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
U.S. law states that once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun. The law doesn't say that, it's a regulatory interpretation. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:33:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Idk if this has been talked about already or not I've been off the For a few weeks. Well anyway I was in cabelas and saw a colt .22lr Set up nj style with no flash hider and an a2 stock. The lower was Marked m16a2 with the third hole. Also the switch could be put into the 3rd Posisition. They zip tie their rifles so I couldn't get a look inside. I brought It to an employees attention on how the third hole was an ATF no no and he Just looked at me like I had 3 heads. So I asked if I could see the inside and he Said no and took the rifle in the back. He said if I would like to buy it I would have to Take a number from gun department. Then after purchasing I could remove the zip ties. Funny m16 lower story I figured I share. I still haven't heard anything about that .22 colt Or what it's deal was. That is NOT how to write Haiku. Was the 3rd Hole of Happiness on both sides, or only on the right? |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:48:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Just to make it clear this site specializes in replica and deactivated weapons. As such none of the stuff on their site would actually work. They are for folks who want to build replicas and not actual firearms. I don't see anything wrong with those receivers from the pictures. They weapons they sell appear to be deactivated according to german law, which doesn't count the lower as being a firearm like we do, and do not require the lower to be altered, only the barrel/upper. As such you can buy complete G3 and MP5 F/A and Burst lowers no problem, but you can't put them on a firing weapon. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:26:29 AM EDT
[#16]
That makes me sick to think that in some countries you can buy a Colt Full Auto M16 lower for CHEAPER than you can buy a off brand used ar15 lower here in the US, and probably still have to fill out less paper work and background checks. Land of the free my A$$!
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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:54:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The law doesn't say that, it's a regulatory interpretation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
U.S. law states that once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun. The law doesn't say that, it's a regulatory interpretation. Yup. Theoretically, you could cut up a machine gun per ATF specs. In that state, it is no longer a machine gun or a firearm. You could then take it a weld it into a Title 1 firearm. It's not so much as theory as it has been done many times before. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 11:15:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Idk if this has been talked about already or not I've been off the For a few weeks. Well anyway I was in cabelas and saw a colt .22lr Set up nj style with no flash hider and an a2 stock. The lower was Marked m16a2 with the third hole. Also the switch could be put into the 3rd Posisition. They zip tie their rifles so I couldn't get a look inside. I brought It to an employees attention on how the third hole was an ATF no no and he Just looked at me like I had 3 heads. So I asked if I could see the inside and he Said no and took the rifle in the back. He said if I would like to buy it I would have to Take a number from gun department. Then after purchasing I could remove the zip ties. Funny m16 lower story I figured I share. I still haven't heard anything about that .22 colt Or what it's deal was. One of the funniest things I have ever read. You actually told them that plastic replica with a steel sleeve for a barrel was illegal because the safety spins all the way around? You realize, that is just the way they designed that piece of crap rifle, and that is one of the reasons I passed on buying one. The safety feels like it has no detents, it just spins all the way around to fire. It isn't a three position safety. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 11:18:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Idk if this has been talked about already or not I've been off the For a few weeks. Well anyway I was in cabelas and saw a colt .22lr Set up nj style with no flash hider and an a2 stock. The lower was Marked m16a2 with the third hole. Also the switch could be put into the 3rd Posisition. They zip tie their rifles so I couldn't get a look inside. I brought It to an employees attention on how the third hole was an ATF no no and he Just looked at me like I had 3 heads. So I asked if I could see the inside and he Said no and took the rifle in the back. He said if I would like to buy it I would have to Take a number from gun department. Then after purchasing I could remove the zip ties. Funny m16 lower story I figured I share. I still haven't heard anything about that .22 colt Or what it's deal was. That third hole is just a replica of a third hole because it's a replica of an M16.. It's not a full auto lower. The employee gave you the correct look. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 11:34:10 AM EDT
[#20]
My understanding is you could cut it up, import it, and re-weld it together without the sear hole, then it would not be considered a machine gun.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 11:44:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My understanding is you could cut it up, import it, and re-weld it together without the sear hole, then it would not be considered a machine gun. Yes, but... The "cut it up" part is very extensive and damaging these days, as ATF now specifies three diagonal 1/4" wide kerf torch cuts entirely through the receiver in specified areas intended to make the "import it and re-weld it together" part nearly impossible and not worth the bother. See examples at this link for current destruction requirements: http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/guides/machinegun-destruction |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:47:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Well that sucks. Way to ruin everything, ATF.
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Posted: 7/30/2014 3:07:31 AM EDT
[#23]
the lower is pretty much intact. I saw one that belonged to a collector friend in Hungary and while the upper is butchered up including holes in the barrel, the lower was pretty much intact.
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Posted: 8/30/2014 7:35:22 PM EDT
[#24]
real or not they're overseas and you'd have to be an importer with a SOT to get them in, just to name a few hurdles.
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Posted: 9/12/2014 2:30:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Such pretty pictures of something the US can't play with. http://www.zib-militaria.de/epages/61431412.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61431412/Products/10254
The requirements are quite destructive:
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Posted: 9/12/2014 2:33:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The receiver is considered a machine gun by ATF. You could not import one (even through a licensed importer) as it would require being on the registry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
-Would these be considered a Machine Gun even without a F/A fcg if one did import one? Now I'm not really considering importing one as that would be a huge PITA and would have to go through a licensed importer..... The receiver is considered a machine gun by ATF. You could not import one (even through a licensed importer) as it would require being on the registry. what does it matter, there are registered MG's with paperwork that aren't even on the registry. |
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