I'm willing to sacrifice my M11 to get there and I know I can do with tubed versions but just wondering if I will regret it due to the versatility of the m11 like the Lage I have and other setups. But the Mp40...is just sooo ancient and damn cool....

Fired many of them ....

but will be be worthy??

"The heart wants what it wants."

Best of luck, with whatever path you decide to take.

If you most enjoy shooting 9 mm and won't miss 22lr cal conversions then go for the mp-40.

I think versatility is highly overrated when it comes to guns.

People talk about it all the time but what does it really amount to?

A versatile gun can be set up exactly the way you like it, but if a gun comes from the factory already the way you like it them then you don't need the versatility


9mm is probably the best subgun cartridge, it's light, cheap, accurate, compact, low recoil, powerful, decent range

if you had an MP40, I don't think you would lie awake nights wishing you could make it shoot some other cartridge

And yet the m16 LL, RDIAS, LL, plus HK sears are probably the most desirable transferables...

Completely agreed with all of this.



HK sears can't be compared to other machine guns. It makes completely different families of guns full-auto. Also, HKs are the coolest guns on the planet. There's many good reasons why they're the most desirable transferables. M16s are popular because they're great guns and they're great to own. Parts, mags, etc. are cheap and ubiquitous. They're good for really all the same reasons ARs are good.

Glock 19s, bolt actions, M60s, and 1919s aren't versatile. I don't think anyone is complaining about those. My MP5K isn't versatile, doesn't seem to hinder my enjoyment of that gun whatsoever.

I'm with cyborg, I find the infatuation with versatility really strange and generally misplaced when it comes to actual owners. Even the people with M16s I know usually have 3-5 uppers for them, and the barrel length is generally what changes. Same as any AR-15 owner.

I agree. Versatility is overrated. I love the S&W76 that I'm waiting on and that's a gun where about the only thing you can change is the barrel/shroud, and even then there aren't many options. But I really wanted THAT gun so I'm totally happy with it's non-versatile status. Just buy what you like and you'll be happy.

The benefit I see to versatility is in being able to set it up during the initial ownership period exactly how you want - with my M11/9 I changed out nearly everything short of the FCG and obviously receiver itself during the first day of ownership, but since that first day I don't think I've changed a thing.

Are they the most desirable?

How much is an M60 selling for now?  How about a BAR?  There are Thompsons that traded hands at over $60k.

A M11/9 lower makes for a excellent little modular trigger pack and there are a lot of accessories but M11/9s sell for 50% of what UZIs do.


Based on chatting with people and talking to dealers, I would say that the guns that the average gun guy most often wants are the UZI, M16, Thompson and MP5.

Probably because those guns are iconic and get a lot of movie time.

It seems to me that the MG market is priced on the basis of coolness and bad-assed-ness.   As opposed to usefulness.

If you ask people what MG they want the most, they will usually cite the coolness.  Like they'll say they liked the BAR in "Public Enemies."


Right now, an arsenal rebuilt Thompson M1A1 sells for about the same money as a Colt M16A1.  

Those are the two ends of the versatility spectrum but they sell for the same money.  The M1A1 has big stock screws so the soldiers could take it off easy, but it's usually kept bone stock by most collectors.


The collectability of most guns is determined by a number of factors, most importantly an association with a famous historical event or famous person, or famous gunmaker, or famous and iconic design, or unusual and interesting design.

If 10,000 Hollywood movies had MP18s in them instead of Thompsons, UZIs, M16s and MP5s, then there would be a MP18 forum here and they'd be selling for $30k.


Of course there are some guys out there who aren't happy unless they're changing their gun every day, the tinkerer type guys.

Those kind of guys are naturally going to put a big value on a modular gun like the M16.  


There was a couple of "what MG do you want" threads on the GD forum and you get the strong impression that the respondents just picked the guns they thought were very cool.   There was more variety of picks than you usually get, probably because the respondents are hardcore gun collectors and they know about a lot more guns than the average shooter.   The MG34 and MG42 show up a lot in those threads, way more than I would have thought.

It's kind of the same way with everything, isn't it?

Like for example, a batch of guys will have a fanatical interest in 1960s AMC AMX cars and have a forum and read books about them, but everyone else will think they're cool but not really care that much.

It's weird how people form their likes and dislikes, I doubt anyone could explain it.

I have a Fleming Sear and a RR AR15, NWAC SGW...

The fleming has been always on the FMP G-3 I have and nothing else... I've moved it around into a C93 and other setups just for fun but it has stayed on the G-3.

But just weirdly.....I hanker for the MP40 and I think I can be happy with just an MP40.....

0.

Dude, yes make the jump.  There's a reason why Macs are $7k and MP40s are $20k.

You'll love it!

In that case, yes I would adios the MAC and buy a MP40. Or keep the MAC AND buy a MP40. :)

Well said.

What I look for are these rather "practical" factors:

1) Reliability
2) Durability
3) Parts/magazines availability/affordability
4) Ammunition availability/affordability
5) Destructive power on hapless range targets (the fun part!)
6) Practical accuracy for burst/semi-auto shooting
7) Factory machine gun, or a carbon copy of one if a conversion

These criteria make me prefer the Chinese fixed stock AK in 7.62x39mm, Colt M16 in 5.56x45mm and Vector UZI in 9x19mm, in that order. Strangely, those same weapons are liked for their "Hollywood Cool" appeal. It's odd how that works, but I guess that practical and effective guns become popular and cool because they work so well.

Machine guns are a very large investment for most people so the most important thing is to buy what you will enjoy.

The variable is what people enjoy. For some its a historic gun from WWI or WWII, others like modern tactical firearms, and some prefer a modular firearm with endless variety.

If you were brand new to MGs and were asking for advice I would recommend a MAC for someone on a tight budget and an M16 or HK for someone with deeper pockets. They are all common, simple guns thats are easy to maintain and can be easily customized to fit that persons preferences.

You however already have more than enough "Versatility" in your collection and have access to MP5s which are a superior subgun than a MAC. You wont miss the MAC and have more than enough knowledge of the MG market to know what youre looking for. I would recommend getting the MP40

That's a good list

The FNC violates a few of those criteria because of the lack of spare parts.  It would be a $20k+ gun if anyone could ever manage to import some parts kits.

The Reising is a gun that actually hits all the points you listed but the value is still depressed by the lack of Hollywood coolness.   It was actually a USMC standard subgun in WWII, which should make it a tip top collectable,  but the poor performance in the jungle has depressed interest in it by collectors.

The fact that the Reising, with some 10,000 in the registry, is not particularly rare, holds down the value also.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

Been thinking of picking up one lately. It would be nice to have a dedicated subgun. The  Sten doesn't even look like a gun and the MACs have jumped in price. If I could find a sweet deal on a Reising I would love to have one.

I largely agree with this statement. There's only one machine gun that I completely don't understand the pricing on, and maybe you can shed some light on it: Grease guns. Ruben has one for $26k right now. What in the world drives that price? You could buy two Uzis for that. You could buy a nice 1928 Thompson for that and have $5k left over. I can't fathom why a grease gun commands more than a Tommy gun.

Because there aren't many in the market. Many in the market came from interesting sources.

Also, they weren't easy to reproduce and having witnessed and observed many FreaseFuns....I can say that I haven't see reacts at all from them being they were still being used all the way into the 90s in some armor corp.


So the rarity is what drives the market of it.


Thompsons are almost in the same boat but the West Hurleys is what is keeping it down a bit I guess.

Probably more of a supply issue than demand driving the price up.

I can't speak to the provenance of the M3 G.G. that Ruben is offering, but one can be had for a bit less.  The simplicity, and robustness of the Greaser can't be beat.  The bolt rides on 2 rails.  Field strip is really simple.  With a can, it is one of the quietest SMG around.  Buy a Guide Lamp or Ithaca guns.  After market Medea is a hit/miss, depending who did the build.  Mine is a British Lend-Lease Guide Lamp.

While I don't own a Reising Model 50 SMG, here are my observations on them:

1) Reliability: History has shown them to be so unreliable in combat that their users (USMC) actually discarded them! The Reising seems to be reliable enough in civilian/recreational use, but the specter of their "real" use will forever color them as "unreliable".

2) Durability: Reisings break critical parts from normal shooting. It is usually the action bar that will break, after some use. These can often be fixed by welding. A much less serious issue is that the tines of their muzzle compensators will break off from shooting.
 
3) Parts/magazines availability/affordability: Parts for the Reising are not readily available, nor are magazines. Numrich Gun Parts Corp might still have some parts; I haven't checked in over a decade. Original magazines were in either 12 or 20 round capacity, and cost over $100 each, when they can be found. Ken Christie converted 30 round Thompson SMG magazines to work in the Reising, but I'm not sure of their current price or availability.
 
4) Ammunition availability/affordability: The Reising 50 shoots the common, readily available .45 ACP round. The downside is that .45 ACP is relatively expensive, when you're feeding a sub machine gun. However, reloading your own ammo or buying Wolf steel-cased ammo will minimize this problem.

5) Destructive power on hapless range targets (the fun part!): A .45 Reising with a Christie 30 round magazine should tear up the targets pretty well.

6) Practical accuracy for burst/semi-auto shooting: Reisings fire from a closed bolt, so they should be relatively accurate. They also have a rifle-style buttstock, rather than a pistol grip. As a result, weapon control in full auto will suffer.
 
7) Factory machine gun, or a carbon copy of one if a conversion: The Reising Model 50 SMG is a factory machine gun. There was a semi-auto Reising carbine, the Model 60, but I doubt any of those were converted into SMG's. They "could" have been with relative ease, since they were basically the same gun.

All prices of all things are the agreement point between supply and demand.

Any gun that was used in WWII is going to have a devoted legion of fanatical collectors.   Big huge historical event = big huge collector interest.

It seems to me that real USGI greasers are pretty rare, the high prices are probably more from the rarity than the high demand.

I think a tube greaser is currently around $16k and a USGI greaser is around $22k.   USGI Thompsons are more like $25k.   West Hurley Thompsons can be had for all the way down to $14k for the cheesy commemoratives.

Crude guns like that leave me cold no matter how well they work.

One thing I really hate is metal butt stocks.  Who wants a metal bar being rubbed against their face?  I have the wood stock on my UZI.  Actually the black plastic version of the wood stock.

Gotcha, that makes sense. I didn't realize I wasn't making an apples to apples comparison regarding the provenance of Ruben's grease gun.

Agreed on the grease gun stock...nothing about that looks ergonomic. In fact, the only real appeal I see to the gun is for collectors. There's a limitless amount of guns that look more enjoyable to shoot.

The MP40 is the most sublime 9mm machinegun I have ever fired. The dual-spring collapsing bolt makes the MP40 so buttery smooth, the first time I fired one I was speechless. The second time I fired one I could not wipe the smile off of my face. The third time I fired one I returned home and immediately started buying spares for one because I know I will own one someday soon. 

While I say that I would not ever sell a machinegun, if getting my hands on the right deal for an MP40 came about and I was enough short to justify selling an M-11... I'd seriously consider doing so.

OP,
    I checked the MP40 box long ago & the Nazi German MP40 is a very beautiful, extremely lethal weapon of war. But you need to hear the down-side on MP40s before jumping in: Original WW2 MP40 parts are now in very short supply. The MP40 firing pin & bolt safety are the weak points of the platform. But both of those issues can be easily address by using an FBP SMG fixed firing pin bolt and recoil assembly which will drop right into an MP40. With use, the MP40 stock does get a lot of play in it. A tight stock makes the MP40 one of the easiest open-bolt SMGs to shoot accurately whereas a sloppy stock will widen your cone of fire substantially. Keep that in mind. The Uzi or the M11/9 is a much better choice for a "shooter" 9mm SMG given all the spare parts & upgrades available today. Good luck!

All matching C&R ayf 41 MP40 made in Nazi Germany by Erma in 1941 & registered during the '68 Amnesty:


All matching C&R U.S. M1928A1 TSMG made by Savage in January, 1942. This weapon was the American counterpart SMG to the Nazi German MP40 when the U.S. entered WW2 after the jap sneak attack on Pearl Harbor: TSMG parts are available but you rarely need them unless you bulge a barrel shooting lead reloads which I have never done.

get what you want.  I think it comes down to how much you shoot, for a shooter a M11/9 is hard to beat.

Very nice MP40.  I need to get one like that one of these days.

I'm a shooter not a collector.

My only collectible firearm is the original LEO Aussie L1A1 SLR I have.

Everything else is shot to the dickens.


So I don't mind a tube gun MP40 at all.

I am a life-long collector who shoots what he collects. If I can't shoot it, I won't own it. And I share. The (2) SMGs above were brought to MG shoots in TX/LA/MS whenever I could arrange to get away from work. Anyone at the Impact Zone New Years Day shoots here in the Houston area that brought factory brass cased jacketed ammo was welcome to shoot them. I also know how to keep them running. Several MP40 tube guns I have worked on would not run consistently. When I took a close look at them, they were usually a mix-master of different WW2 German, post-war, & aftermarket parts. There was no CNC machining in WW2. Erma, Steyr, & Haenel were the prime contractors but you also had several other subcontractors making MP38/MP40 parts. Tolerance stacking can bite you it the ass with a mix-master. And the WW2 German parts produced towards the end of the war were not of the same quality as the earlier parts. If you can get a tube gun with a matching earlier parts set in it, it will probably run more consistently than a later mix-master. The Erma MP40 shown above was all matching. When fired with an FBP fixed firing pin bolt, it never missed a beat that was not related to Hirtenberger L7A1 +P+ 9MM ammo fired in warm weather. Hirtenberger L7A1 ammo was made for use in open-bolt SMGs in arctic conditions. It went crazy in the Texas summer heat and started popping primers. You could hear & see it thru the ejection port. The all-matching Savage U.S. M1928A1 never missed a beat even with 50 round drum magazines. These WW2 SMGs could chew thru a case of ammo each in a day and clean up just fine. 9mm & .45 ACP are both relatively low intensity pistol cartridges. So the only real damage done during a day of shooting these SMGs was to your fingers from loading mags. Good luck!

I appreciate your thoughts and opinions.

Due to the Lage 5.56 upper coming out, I'm gonna hold onto my m11 for now.



Unless throws at me a deal on a trade straight across for an Mp40

The MP40 is definitely on the short list for me as well.

I got my first MP 40 in about 1953 at 16.  In those days no one ever heard about registering them.  By the time the 68 amnesty came along I had acquired several guns and had a field day filling out registration forms.  
I currently have 4 original MP 40s & an MP 38.  I also have 4 MP 40 tube guns, which are my shooters.  The originals never leave the house!  
I also have & shoot a MAC 10 9mm, a Sten Gun, a BAR, a Thompson, an MP 43 and an MG 42.   There are some com block guns I'd like to have, but never will because of the high prices.  
Sarge

I'm waiting on the Form 4 for my first MG now, a MP40. I've shot it and it's such a sweet shooting, fun smg. It's slow enough to be extremely controllable but fast enough to still be fun and give you a grin when dumping a mag.

The only gripe on mine is the stock having up and down play. Does anyone know how I can fix that?

That's kinda what I'd be most concerned about. I was told it's a lot harder to control and shoot if they have a wobbly stock so I'd need to check before buying one. Really hoping there's a MP40 doctor out there lol