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Posted: 10/27/2016 1:33:42 PM EDT
Got range time in with a FA MP-5 yesterday and needless to say... I need one (and advice on where to get it)!

That is all.
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 1:37:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Got range time in with a FA MP-5 yesterday and needless to say... I need one (and advice on where to get it)!

That is all.
View Quote


Are you rich?
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 1:40:59 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:


Are you rich?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Got range time in with a FA MP-5 yesterday and needless to say... I need one (and advice on where to get it)!

That is all.


Are you rich?


Not rich but comfortable... I was told to expect 20-30k - is that accurate?
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 1:42:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Yep, they are fun.  Used to have a few Flemming sears, one in an HK51 Volmer conversion, a second in a Volmer SP89/MP5K conversion, and a third in a Special Weapons MP5K-PDW.

I just have SBR's now as the cost versus fun ratio is WAY off on just about any full auto weapon but it's really bad on the HK stuff.
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 1:42:56 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


Not rich but comfortable... I was told to expect 20-30k - is that accurate?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got range time in with a FA MP-5 yesterday and needless to say... I need one (and advice on where to get it)!

That is all.


Are you rich?


Not rich but comfortable... I was told to expect 20-30k - is that accurate?


Yea, much closer to 30k.
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 1:44:45 PM EDT
[#5]
I'd love to get a LL or something to convert an AR perhaps. I know myself (and my wife) and striking while the iron is hot is key before she changes her mind
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 1:46:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Not rich but comfortable... I was told to expect 20-30k - is that accurate?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got range time in with a FA MP-5 yesterday and needless to say... I need one (and advice on where to get it)!

That is all.


Are you rich?


Not rich but comfortable... I was told to expect 20-30k - is that accurate?


Yeah, usually tending more towards the high 20's, low 30's.

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=27916&query=retrieval

Link Posted: 10/27/2016 2:45:35 PM EDT
[#7]
I would suggest getting a transferable HK Sear (Qualified, Fleming, or S&H) or a registered pack that is a full spec full auto pack with a notch cut to clear the semi-auto shelf (Like a DLO)

You will then be able to build a new MP5 host gun around the sear using either a HK94, SP89, a SP5K, or even a clone receiver.

The sear will then allow the host gun to take basically all of the wear & tear and also allow you to move the sear between hosts (MP5, MP5SD, HK53, G3, HK21e, etc.)

You are looking at around $30K for a registered sear and between $2K and $8K for a semi host to put it in depending upon base receiver and feature set.

The cheaper MP5s out there in the 20s are registered receiver guns that were not full brought to machinegun spec (with a front push pin hole) and usually have some myriad of custom conversion parts in them that cannot be replaced, nor moved to another HK receiver.


Link Posted: 10/27/2016 2:46:24 PM EDT
[#8]
I've been thinking about selling my MP5SD sear gun for the last several months.  At $35k I probably will.
Link Posted: 10/27/2016 4:01:58 PM EDT
[#9]
$30-35 will get you a registered sear, which can be put in a variety of semi-auto "host" guns. The initial cost is very high but if you have a large HK collection you are looking at $5k or less per MGs,
Prices for semi-auto hosts range from $1.5k for a simple non-hk MP5 to $10-15k for an HK21/23 belt fed.

HK Sear Compatible Host Guns
MP5, MP5k, MP5 SD
91, 51, 51k
33/93, 53, 53k
21, 23, 21e, 23e
13, 11, 13k, 11k
32 pdw

Your other option would be a registered receiver MP5 for$20-25k, which is a significant cost savings compared to a registered sear but it will also just be one gun, most of which are after market conversion of semi-auto rifles, whereas a sear can be used to convert multiple firearms to full auto.

I saw your second post and would highly recommend a M16. Most people already have a large AR15 collection along with the tools, spare parts and knowledge needed operate and maintain them. HKs are great firearms but it would cost you a lot of time and capital to get started. If you picked up a RLL or non-colt RR you could get into the M16 world for around $13-20k. Both platforms have strong and weak points, you just have to think about what you want to do with your MG. I know you sound in a hurry because of your wife, but personally I would think about that large of a purchase for at least a week or two and do plenty of research.

Transferable M16 machine guns and estimated market values:
RLL $13-18k
RDIAS $30-35k
RR Non-Colt Cast AR15 Conversion $16-19k
RR Non-Colt AR15 Conversion $18-20k
RR Colt AR15 SP1 Conversion $18-20k
RR Colt AR15 614 $22-24k
RR Colt M16 $24-26k
RR Colt M16A1 $25-28k
RR Colt M16A2 $28-35k
RR Colt M16A2 Commando $33-38k (Marked "Auto" instead of "Burst")

Websites to watch for good deals on machine guns:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com
http://www.atfmachinegun.com
http://www.autoweapons.com
http://www.impactguns.com
http://www.subguns.com
http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com
http://www.davidspiwak.com
http://dealernfa.com
http://www.gunbroker.com
http://www.nfasales.com
http://mtmmfg.com
http://www.classiiidealers.com/
http://www.westernfirearms.com/
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/class-iii-full-auto/
http://www.urban-armory.com/
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_7/118_NFA_Firearms_andamp__Parts.html

Website that tracks machine gun values:

http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/
Link Posted: 10/28/2016 1:08:05 PM EDT
[#10]
The  huge advantage to the RDIAS is cheap hosts.

Pbellp2012, its kind of funny, i did the exact opposite. I dont think i ever shot a FA mp5. But im waiting for the transfer of my sear.

As far as advice and where to get one... get a sear then decide which mp5 host you want.
My sear came in an HK91. I ordered a MP5A5

I also ordered the hk21 with the 3 caliber conversions(.223,.308,7.62x39)

Now for where to get one, its always best to find one instate to cut down on the wait time.
Other than that shop around GB, subguns and what not. And if you get impatient grab one from a dealer for a couple thousand more.

I figured no matter which mp5 host i choose, ill eventually want to try out a different one.


Link Posted: 10/28/2016 9:09:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Or sbr a ar15 9mm with bump fire stock. Way cheaper.
Link Posted: 10/28/2016 9:47:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Or sbr a ar15 9mm with bump fire stock. Way cheaper.
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Kias are cheaper than Porsches. So what?

OP, sears are closer to 30-35k right now than they are to 20-30k. Full auto MP5s are fantastic if you have the cash. If you strictly want to shoot 9mm in auto, there's also Stens, Uzis, Mini Uzis, SW76s, and more.
Link Posted: 10/28/2016 10:37:06 PM EDT
[#13]
No need to be rich to have one.  You say you are comfortable, and it sounds like 20k-30k is ok with you, so you are fine.

I highly recommend getting a sear gun.  That way you can have one registered machine gun as the sear, and as many hosts as you want for you.  (mp5, mp5sd, mp5k, hk51, hk53, 23E, etc, etc, etc).  A lot of bang for the buck with that option.

The market has slowed down a lot lately, and if you look hard enough, you can find mp5 sear guns for around $30k.  Deals are also out there.  A customer of mine just bought (about 2 months ago), an mp5 with a Fleming sear for $21,000.  Phenominal deal currently, and I am handling the transfer.  I wouldn't count on finding that deal out there, but if you are comfortable with $30kish, then you will be find.  Post a WTB ad on sturmgewehr or subguns.  Also dealers like David Spiwak and Ruben sell them often.

Good luck on the hunt, and have fun!
Link Posted: 10/28/2016 10:49:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd love to get a LL or something to convert an AR perhaps. I know myself (and my wife) and striking while the iron is hot is key before she changes her mind
View Quote


While an M16 is cool, the MP-5 is much more fun in my opinion (I have shot both quite a bit).
Link Posted: 10/29/2016 5:03:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Boring...



Overrated

Paid $1600 in 1993 pre '86 dealer sample
Link Posted: 10/29/2016 10:54:45 PM EDT
[#16]
First, I am a huge fan of the m16. I own two factory Colts. With that said, given the price of transferable MGs I feel the HK sear or frame represent the most flexible transferable MG for someone who can afford the entry price. With these you can have a single device and a whole family of hosts - SMGs in various calibers and lengths, assault rifle/compact assault rifle/ultra compact assault rifle in 5.56/300/762x39, battle rifle/compact battle rifle in 308, Beltfed in 5.56 and 308. The HK sear is likely to appreciate faster and to a higher overall value than anything else. This will be matched for awhile by the AR15 RDIAS for a time, but the HK sear has more options and I believe will ultimately outpace the AR15 RDIAS. I am willing to bet that the rate of value increase of other items will flatten as they hit $35-40k, while the HK sear/frame will continue to climb. Another consideration: at what point does the factory Colt m16 become too valuable to blast mag after mag the way that so many of us currently do? I was told about a factory m16a1 that suffered a catastrophic failure in the receiver near the lower's rear tang, where the receiver extension threads into the lower. A shrike was improperly used without the buffer spacer. Kaboom...instant massive depreciation, assuming the lower can be fixed by someone like m60joe. A friend witnessed this first hand. Personally I shoot my mp5k-n with DLO frame far more frequently now than my factory colt m16s. If I had a RDIAS I would still shoot the piss out of a RDIAS/m16. This is not to say I don't shoot my m16s or that I overly baby them, I just shoot mine with more care than I did when they were worth half of what they are today.

As for prices, expect $30-$34k for a sear installed in a pack, $34-37k for a frame. And $35-37k for a sear converted mp5, $37-40k for a registered frame converted mp5. Ruben has a nice G3 with a registered frame for $37k right now. Deals are out there, but buyer beware there are a lot of scams. The market is a bit soft right now, but I think it has to do with people buying ammo and semiautos prior to the election due to the uncertainty and concern for a Hillary win.

Buy a fleming sear, qualified sear, S&H sear, or registered frame that accepts all factory parts and don't look back.
Link Posted: 10/30/2016 5:02:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 3:06:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Just become a cop and get on the SWAT team
MP5SD for free
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 3:11:14 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Just become a cop and get on the SWAT team
MP5SD for free
View Quote


No SD here. The regular one works fine though.
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 5:03:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Boring...

http://i66.tinypic.com/35iw3s8.jpg

Overrated

Paid $1600 in 1993 pre '86 dealer sample
View Quote


I'll gladly give you $1700 for it today :)
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#21]
There are pros/cons to both the M16 Sear vs. HK Sear.

M16 Sear:

Pros:
Better 5.56 Host Options .  The M16 is still a current production platform that is undergoing refinement and updates even today.  HK has discontinued its 5.56 roller locked platform.
Better availability of common parts which are less expensive
Cheaper Hosts
Easier to work on for your average user
Better 22lr option/s

Cons:
Belt fed options are not a Colt factory spec (shrike & fm9 are essentially aftermarket toys by 3rd party manufacturers)
Limited 308 options (limited to LE901) and no 308 beltfed option anymore.
Inferior 9MM/pistol caliber options with most all being straight blowback with a mag well insert.

HK Sear:

Pros:
Better Pistol Caliber options  MP5 series is a better platform vs. the M16/9.   There are also factory engineered 10MM and 40S&W roller locked gun specs.
Better 308 support with multiple barrel length options.
Better beltfed options with German factory specs on 7.62 and 5.56 beltfed designs.

Cons:
Parts are generally more expensive and harder to obtain across the board.
22LR conversions are limited in availability and can be expensive depending upon the host.
Hosts are more expensive in general across the board. (especially original german receiver based hosts)
HKs are generally harder to work on than AR platform guns.  HKs require more specialized tools, welders, and hydraulic presses.

My take is that most of the HK “cons” are financial in nature (More expensive hosts, more expensive parts, more expensive 22lr kits, expensive tooling and/or gunsmith labor)  other than the Oberndorf support on most of the platforms is at a dead end.   Then again transferable machineguns are pretty much at an evolutionary dead end due to FOPA so it sort of a wash in a way.

From a cost perspective, most folks who are throwing down $35K on a 1oz piece of metal in general don’t really worry themselves about pricetaggery….

HK also to some extent also comes with an air of European rarity/exclusivity that many collectors seem to really be drawn to, which in my perception also draws the transferable HK pricing upwards and onwards.

You really cant go wrong with either option in my opinion.  As the owner of multiples of both HK Sears, M16 conversion sears, and M16 receivers they all have their pros/cons, but an HK sear would probably be the last to go if I ever sold them all.
Link Posted: 10/31/2016 9:17:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There are pros/cons to both the M16 Sear vs. HK Sear.

M16 Sear:

Pros:
Better 5.56 Host Options .  The M16 is still a current production platform that is undergoing refinement and updates even today.  HK has discontinued its 5.56 roller locked platform.
Better availability of common parts which are less expensive
Cheaper Hosts
Easier to work on for your average user
Better 22lr option/s

Cons:
Belt fed options are not a Colt factory spec (shrike & fm9 are essentially aftermarket toys by 3rd party manufacturers)
Limited 308 options (limited to LE901) and no 308 beltfed option anymore.
Inferior 9MM/pistol caliber options with most all being straight blowback with a mag well insert.

HK Sear:

Pros:
Better Pistol Caliber options  MP5 series is a better platform vs. the M16/9.   There are also factory engineered 10MM and 40S&W roller locked gun specs.
Better 308 support with multiple barrel length options.
Better beltfed options with German factory specs on 7.62 and 5.56 beltfed designs.

Cons:
Parts are generally more expensive and harder to obtain across the board.
22LR conversions are limited in availability and can be expensive depending upon the host.
Hosts are more expensive in general across the board. (especially original german receiver based hosts)
HKs are generally harder to work on than AR platform guns.  HKs require more specialized tools, welders, and hydraulic presses.

My take is that most of the HK “cons” are financial in nature (More expensive hosts, more expensive parts, more expensive 22lr kits, expensive tooling and/or gunsmith labor)  other than the Oberndorf support on most of the platforms is at a dead end.   Then again transferable machineguns are pretty much at an evolutionary dead end due to FOPA so it sort of a wash in a way.

From a cost perspective, most folks who are throwing down $35K on a 1oz piece of metal in general don’t really worry themselves about pricetaggery….

HK also to some extent also comes with an air of European rarity/exclusivity that many collectors seem to really be drawn to, which in my perception also draws the transferable HK pricing upwards and onwards.

You really cant go wrong with either option in my opinion.  As the owner of multiples of both HK Sears, M16 conversion sears, and M16 receivers they all have their pros/cons, but an HK sear would probably be the last to go if I ever sold them all.
View Quote


This is pretty accurate. The RDIAS is probably the best value. I just find the HKs to be more enjoyable to shoot FA. The AR-15 is a great semi gun but FA in an AR isn't as fun to me. A MP5 is great and a G3SG1 is pretty dang fun FA. I imagine a HK53 is too.
Link Posted: 11/1/2016 12:00:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This is pretty accurate. The RDIAS is probably the best value. I just find the HKs to be more enjoyable to shoot FA. The AR-15 is a great semi gun but FA in an AR isn't as fun to me. A MP5 is great and a G3SG1 is pretty dang fun FA. I imagine a HK53 is too.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
There are pros/cons to both the M16 Sear vs. HK Sear.

M16 Sear:

Pros:
Better 5.56 Host Options .  The M16 is still a current production platform that is undergoing refinement and updates even today.  HK has discontinued its 5.56 roller locked platform.
Better availability of common parts which are less expensive
Cheaper Hosts
Easier to work on for your average user
Better 22lr option/s

Cons:
Belt fed options are not a Colt factory spec (shrike & fm9 are essentially aftermarket toys by 3rd party manufacturers)
Limited 308 options (limited to LE901) and no 308 beltfed option anymore.
Inferior 9MM/pistol caliber options with most all being straight blowback with a mag well insert.

HK Sear:

Pros:
Better Pistol Caliber options  MP5 series is a better platform vs. the M16/9.   There are also factory engineered 10MM and 40S&W roller locked gun specs.
Better 308 support with multiple barrel length options.
Better beltfed options with German factory specs on 7.62 and 5.56 beltfed designs.

Cons:
Parts are generally more expensive and harder to obtain across the board.
22LR conversions are limited in availability and can be expensive depending upon the host.
Hosts are more expensive in general across the board. (especially original german receiver based hosts)
HKs are generally harder to work on than AR platform guns.  HKs require more specialized tools, welders, and hydraulic presses.

My take is that most of the HK “cons” are financial in nature (More expensive hosts, more expensive parts, more expensive 22lr kits, expensive tooling and/or gunsmith labor)  other than the Oberndorf support on most of the platforms is at a dead end.   Then again transferable machineguns are pretty much at an evolutionary dead end due to FOPA so it sort of a wash in a way.

From a cost perspective, most folks who are throwing down $35K on a 1oz piece of metal in general don’t really worry themselves about pricetaggery….

HK also to some extent also comes with an air of European rarity/exclusivity that many collectors seem to really be drawn to, which in my perception also draws the transferable HK pricing upwards and onwards.

You really cant go wrong with either option in my opinion.  As the owner of multiples of both HK Sears, M16 conversion sears, and M16 receivers they all have their pros/cons, but an HK sear would probably be the last to go if I ever sold them all.


This is pretty accurate. The RDIAS is probably the best value. I just find the HKs to be more enjoyable to shoot FA. The AR-15 is a great semi gun but FA in an AR isn't as fun to me. A MP5 is great and a G3SG1 is pretty dang fun FA. I imagine a HK53 is too.


There is just something really extra awesome about FA HKs. It's like owning a Rolex MG. With that said I love my m16s too. And my Uzi, though it sees far less range time than the mp5k-n. As jbntex, if I had to sell off MGs and could keep only one it would be HK - a DLO frame.
Link Posted: 11/5/2016 8:04:00 PM EDT
[#24]
My HK53 and MP5 are a blast.  
Link Posted: 11/19/2016 2:00:48 PM EDT
[#25]

Hands down, the AR15/M16 platform is the most versatile gun in history.  But so what?  

Most guns and other collector items are not versatile at all.  Nobody cares.  A luger collector buys lugers because he thinks lugers are bad ass and he likes them.  The lack of modular uppers for lugers is of no concern to the guy.

I owned a mint condition Colt M16A1 and I sold it to buy a Thompson.  Now that's a study in contrasts right there.  

I never shot the m16 and rarely even took it out of the safe, I shoot the Thompson every chance I can.  Selling the M16 was a good move, I replaced a gun I didn't care about with one that's my favorite gun that I've ever owned.

I would definitely own an MP5 before I bought a M16.  The M16 is an excellent gun but the MP5 is just more appealing to me from a coolness standpoint.

My advice would be to buy the coolest gun, not the most "useful" gun.  We're not buying a swiss army knife to take camping.

Link Posted: 1/22/2017 8:01:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Or sbr a ar15 9mm with bump fire stock. Way cheaper.
View Quote


I have an MP5 clone that I made a bump fire stock for.

It takes LIGHT TOUCH to bump 9mm.

Using the same type bump fire stock with my AK...you just THINK about firing and it dumps the mag.

Link Posted: 1/22/2017 8:46:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have an MP5 clone that I made a bump fire stock for.

It takes LIGHT TOUCH to bump 9mm.

Using the same type bump fire stock with my AK...you just THINK about firing and it dumps the mag.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or sbr a ar15 9mm with bump fire stock. Way cheaper.


I have an MP5 clone that I made a bump fire stock for.

It takes LIGHT TOUCH to bump 9mm.

Using the same type bump fire stock with my AK...you just THINK about firing and it dumps the mag.



Pics aren't loading.
Link Posted: 1/26/2017 5:18:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Great write up regarding the '16 vs. the sear. I have a Colt M-16A1 with a Gen 5 Shrike upper and runs perfect. I also have two Fleming sears with a MM21e/23e combo and 5 other HK & clone hosts with TONS of accessories and ammo to boot. While the HK stuff is a LOT of fun, there is a lot of "upkeep". I sometimes think about selling all the HK stuff and buying 1. A NIB Colt M-16A2 and B. another Colt M-16 of sorts. Reason being, and now 53, is that taking out my MM21e with tripod, ammo and goodies is work. Now, by NO means am I lazy, but gravity is getting the better of me. Yeah an M-16 is a one trick pony but it's really one hell of a pony. And the value is always there.
Link Posted: 1/26/2017 8:23:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have an MP5 clone that I made a bump fire stock for.

It takes LIGHT TOUCH to bump 9mm.

Using the same type bump fire stock with my AK...you just THINK about firing and it dumps the mag.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or sbr a ar15 9mm with bump fire stock. Way cheaper.


I have an MP5 clone that I made a bump fire stock for.

It takes LIGHT TOUCH to bump 9mm.

Using the same type bump fire stock with my AK...you just THINK about firing and it dumps the mag.



@Cpt_Kirks

Pics aren't loading.
Link Posted: 1/28/2017 2:01:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


@Cpt_Kirks

Pics aren't loading.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or sbr a ar15 9mm with bump fire stock. Way cheaper.


I have an MP5 clone that I made a bump fire stock for.

It takes LIGHT TOUCH to bump 9mm.

Using the same type bump fire stock with my AK...you just THINK about firing and it dumps the mag.



@Cpt_Kirks

Pics aren't loading.




I don't have a vid of me bumping it, but it looked something like this:



(The MP5 is kind of hard to see)

Attachment Attached File


I NEED to SBR it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2017 4:38:35 PM EDT
[#31]
I just took this pic of my MP5 factory MG. 

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