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Posted: 1/29/2016 12:16:48 PM EDT
So I have a subgun and beltfed and would like to get a FA rifle, besides a M16 what would be the next best rifle to acquire?  Would like one that has a decent availability of parts.
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 12:56:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Ak47, HK sear, or 10/22 pack

OR.....  you can go off the beaten path, with an American 180
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 1:07:59 PM EDT
[#2]
I still think you should get an M16. Everyone who's into FA weapons needs one. There's so much you can do with them.
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 7:01:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Hk 33k is my favorite
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 8:05:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Which beltfed and subgun do you own?  That could potentially narrow down the choices.
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 8:25:24 PM EDT
[#5]
I am with these guys.  Get a M16 ... or if you are pinching pennies - Get the Ruger ACC 5.56.  NOTHING has the parts availability like the M16 does.

When I am ready (not yet ... )  I will look for the biggest piece of dog-shit, whooped out, trashy, abused looking M16 I can find.  I will save several thousands of dollars.  And the most near-destroyed machine gun receiver can usually be rebuilt by a 02/07 for less than $500-600.  Winning.  Dont care if numbers match.  Matching Numbers is for the PowerBall & MegaMillions.  Something I will use and shoot the piss out of - give me something that works well, at a good price,that I won't loose money on.  All one can ask.
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 10:42:13 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
I am with these guys.  Get a M16 ... or if you are pinching pennies - Get the Ruger ACC 5.56.  NOTHING has the parts availability like the M16 does.

When I am ready (not yet ... )  I will look for the biggest piece of dog-shit, whooped out, trashy, abused looking M16 I can find.  I will save several thousands of dollars.  And the most near-destroyed machine gun receiver can usually be rebuilt by a 02/07 for less than $500-600.  Winning.  Dont care if numbers match.  Matching Numbers is for the PowerBall & MegaMillions.  Something I will use and shoot the piss out of - give me something that works well, at a good price,that I won't loose money on.  All one can ask.
View Quote


Good luck, Tex.  Those deals are unicorns.  You likely won't save thousands and you'd be lucky to find anything under $13-14k at this point IMO.






OP...M16, HK sear and hosts, AK47 in that order (IMO).
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 11:03:58 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Which beltfed and subgun do you own?  That could potentially narrow down the choices.
View Quote


Uzi and a 1919a4.
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 11:27:10 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


Uzi and a 1919a4.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Which beltfed and subgun do you own?  That could potentially narrow down the choices.


Uzi and a 1919a4.

I was going to guess a Mac 10 and m1919

But in all honestly the M16 is hands down the best options when it comes to reliability, access to affordable parts, versatility, etc...

If some reason an M16 is just not your thing than an HK is a great option but will cost a lot more, not just the sear but the host guns and parts can be pricey. An AK is an option but for the price inn not a big fan. After that you're looking at options like a FAL or a AC556 but they aren't nearly as popular.
Link Posted: 1/30/2016 12:29:23 AM EDT
[#9]
M16 RR or DIAS is top pick for an automatic rifle. The options for these are almost endless.








I'd say HK sear (or housing) is #2. If you go with that, you can operate a wide variety of roller-delayed family weapons, obtain a MP5 clone, and sell your UZI.











Third would be a FNC sear, but it will only ever go in a FNC, which is a fine assault rifle, and you would save some money.




I don't even know if I'd rate the AC-556 fourth. Maybe equal to an AUG sear or AK.





M16 family will always be the most value though.





 
 

 
 
Link Posted: 1/30/2016 2:54:59 PM EDT
[#10]
david05111 - Correct.  I would be lucky to find something for 13-14K.  But since most every M16 out there now usually sells for $18K+, it still would be a savings of several thousand dollars.  When I am actually in the market for an M16 - something that appreciates 5-10% annually - I will be looking for the cheapest way in.  Don't "need" any MG, Sub Gun, Belt Fed, etc.  So I can afford to take a few months shopping around for the right deal.

Anyways OP - All I was saying is don't be afraid to buy one that is shot to hell and back.  They can be rebuilt cheap aside from anything catastrophically wrong with the registered receiver.

Link Posted: 1/30/2016 3:12:44 PM EDT
[#11]
M16 or Norrel 10/22 trigger pack.
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 1:07:42 AM EDT
[#12]
a m16, or auto connector, DIAS
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 1:30:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Hard to make a recommendation without knowing your budget. Widely available and reasonably priced spare parts put the M16 in the lead. With the M16 off the table, a HK sear or frame is my recommendation due to the versatility.  Parts are plentiful for HKs, just costly. Steyr AUG is another option with plentiful, albeit expensive spare parts. FNC is a great rifle and reasonably priced, but the important spares are unobtanium so this does not meet your criteria.
Link Posted: 2/6/2016 6:05:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Now quit rubbing it in our damn faces, ya lucky bastard....
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 12:12:18 PM EDT
[#15]
I don't really agree that the M16 is the "best choice"

When it comes to usefulness and parts availability, the M16 is ten miles out ahead of every other gun on earth.  There's nothing even close.  It's a machinegun version of an erector set.

In that respect it's the best choice you could possibly make.

But the reason we are buying these guns is because of coolness, not usefulness.

I sold a mint condition Colt M16A1 to buy a Thompson and I have no regrets at all.  The M16 just didn't grab my interest at all.


My advice would be two things:

1. Buy what appeals to you most on the gut level.

2. Buy a gun that has a decent supply of spare parts and magazines available.  You don't want to be paying $200 for a magazine or $1000 for a bolt.  



Link Posted: 2/10/2016 12:17:07 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:

My advice would be two things:

1. Buy what appeals to you most on the gut level.

2. Buy a gun that has a decent supply of spare parts and magazines available.  You don't want to be paying $200 for a magazine or $1000 for a bolt.  

View Quote


I agree. My personal choices are a Colt M16, HK sear, or registered HK frame. I like the HK sear or frame for their versatility. You can have SMGs in various lengths/configuration/caliber, subcompact/compact/fullsize assault rifles in 5.56/300BO/7.62x39, subcompact/compact/fullsize battle rifles in 308, and beltfeds in 5.56/308/hopefully soon in 7.62x39. This is all predicated on your liking the HK roller lock series.

But I really love both the m16 and HKs. I want (and have) both, because I love both.
Link Posted: 2/14/2016 9:58:56 PM EDT
[#17]
DD. Get a 203 or better yet a 60mm mortar. That will definitely turn heads at the range.
Link Posted: 2/15/2016 12:52:26 AM EDT
[#18]
It does amaze me how so few people answer the question that the OP has asked.  He has an Uzi and a 1919.  He asked about a full auto rifle.  How is it that a American 180 or a Norell pack, have anything to do with a rifle?

OP to answer your question, I need you to answer mine.  How do you plan to use your full auto rifle?  Some guys shoot a couple of mags a couple of times a year if that.  Others might go through 5,000 rds in an afternoon several times a year.  I think most collectors will fall somewhere in between.  To me there is a world of difference between a 1919 and the beltfed guns that can be shot from the shoulder.  The M16 and HK sear or trigger frame can be either a mag fed rifle or an off the shoulder beltfed.  So are you asking about mag fed only?  Or are you talking about rifle caliber off the shoulder?

There is also the "one trick pony" aspects of some designs.  A FMC, AC556, or AK can not change barrels easily or quickly.  So pound mag after mag and you can ruin the barrel.  That is the big reason why I started with the M16.  I could run a Beta C, push two pins, change uppers, and run another Beta C.  I could also change calibers by pushing two pins.  Of course with versatility comes additional price.  The FNC, or AC556 is about half the money of a Colt or DIAS.  The AK is around the price of the Colt gun.  That is not so much about the versatility as availability.  It is my understanding that the AK was so cheap, and 7.62X39 or even more so, 5.45X39 ammo was harder to get, that not many AKs got registered.  So a full auto AK is harder to find so it costs more money.  Good luck with your search.

Scott
Link Posted: 2/15/2016 2:31:47 AM EDT
[#19]
It's pretty much impossible to answer the OP's question

what makes a gun the best?  cost?  coolness?  historical? cheap ammo?

does he mean a select fire assault rifle?  he mentions the M16

or he mean a shoulder fired magazine fed light machine gun like a bren gun or BAR?

what price range is he willing to spend?

he wants parts availability.  meaning what?  an endless supply of parts like an UZI or reasonably available parts like an M14?

the question is too vague


aside from that, I think people put too much emphasis on versatility

most guns cannot be changed around into endless combinations like an M16, but nobody ever complains

nobody ever says, "gee whiz, I wish I could change my BAR into 9mm"

as the owner of an M16, I think the presto-change-o aspect is over emphasized
Link Posted: 2/15/2016 10:04:02 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
It's pretty much impossible to answer the OP's question

what makes a gun the best?  cost?  coolness?  historical? cheap ammo?

does he mean a select fire assault rifle?  he mentions the M16

or he mean a shoulder fired magazine fed light machine gun like a bren gun or BAR?

what price range is he willing to spend?

he wants parts availability.  meaning what?  an endless supply of parts like an UZI or reasonably available parts like an M14?

the question is too vague


aside from that, I think people put too much emphasis on versatility

most guns cannot be changed around into endless combinations like an M16, but nobody ever complains

nobody ever says, "gee whiz, I wish I could change my BAR into 9mm"

as the owner of an M16, I think the presto-change-o aspect is over emphasized
View Quote


Admittedly I have yet to fire anything other than 5.56 through my M16 and likely never will, but its nice knowing I have the option too. And for people who only have the funds to buy one gun you def want as many options as possible. If you can afford multiple guns the versatility of the M16 is far less important as you will likely have dedicated belt feds and subguns.
Link Posted: 2/16/2016 1:05:43 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:as the owner of an M16, I think the presto-change-o aspect is over emphasized
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So I have to ask, why didn't you buy a FNC or AC556 for less money if you aren't interested in the "presto-change-o aspect" of the M16.  The "presto-change-o aspect" of the M16 is exactly why I bought a Colt M16 as my first machinegun.  I have since sold the Colt gun in favor of a DIAS.  With the Colt gun I had:

.22lr subgun
9mm closed bolt subgun (Both 10.5" factory Colt and 7" DOE uppers)
7.5", 11.5", 14.5", 16" and 20" water cooled mag and Beta C fed 5.56X45 machineguns
14.5" 6.5 Grendel machinegun
11.5" and 16" 7.62X39 mag and drum fed machineguns.

Since going to the DIAS I have gone to the MGI system.  So the 20" water cooled has been upgraded to a KNS spade grip lower with a Valkyrie Armaments belt feed mech.
I also have a MGI upper with three custom Ares piston converted 14.5" fluted HBARs that is modified for use with the Valkyrie mech to have a SAW type machinegun.
A standard magwell that has been modified for use with modified Thompson mags with a Ron Williams .45 ACP direct impingement upper.
The two 7.62X39 uppers have been modified for use with AK mags and drums with a AK mag well.

The very first time I shot my Colt gun, I ran it in 11.5" and 16" 5.56X45 and 7.62X39.  Run a Beta C, push two pins and install a fresh upper.  Where as the FNC or AC556, run a Beta C and set it aside to cool so the barrel won't get overheated.  I bought a machinegun to shoot not to wait for the barrel to cool.  But that is my choice.  You are of course entitled to your own choice.  YMMV.

Scott
Link Posted: 2/16/2016 12:54:31 PM EDT
[#22]
I bought my M16 because it’s badass.

The idea of being able to shoot other calibers appealed to me for obvious reasons but I never got around to doing it.


If you looked at this topic scientifically, like you were buying a new dishwasher or garden tractor and you want the most value and “usefulness” for your dollar, the obvious winner would be the M16 platform.

From that standpoint, it’s impossible to beat.  No question about it, nothing even comes close.


But these MGs are part of the world of gun collecting, they are not appliances.

Collecting anything is about imagination, not efficiency.

Most people don’t buy these guns because they are useful, they buy them because they are cool.

Why do people spend $150,000 on a 1960s Vette when they could get a brand new Z06 Corvette for half the money and literally run circles around the older model?

Even a new Camaro would smoke a 1960's Vette.

Link Posted: 2/16/2016 2:01:04 PM EDT
[#23]
If you don't want an M16, BAR - meets the "rifle" category; shares ammo with the 1919; has lots of panache (used along with the Thompson by good guys and bad guys in the 20s and 30s) plus served with honor in the military in "The Great War"; and has a high recognition factor among firearms affectionados.  I don't know about parts, though.

Best of luck and enjoy whatever you decide to pursue.

MHO, YMMV, etc.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 12:29:34 PM EDT
[#24]
 So I have a subgun and beltfed and would like to get a FA rifle, besides a M16 what would be the next best rifle to acquire?
Would like one that has a decent availability of parts.

Originally Posted By Squawk1200:
Which beltfed and subgun do you own? That could potentially narrow down the choices.
View Quote

Uzi and a 1919a4.
View Quote


You haven't said yet if you're looking for a primarily "shooter" or "collector" piece this time; I'm guessing
the two you have right now were bought to be "shooters," and given your desire for spare parts,
you are probably looking for a shooter rifle, as well.

For a shooter (rifle) -- I have to echo everyone who has said M16.  A Colt original can be a collector's piece
in its own right, and it will give you more versatility than you have right now.  The availability of the
AR-15 & clones in this country will assume that you have an essentially unlimited supply of cheap
magazines/barrels/other parts for the foreseeable future (*barring a drastic change in the legal environment).
Demand & resale value seem like they will stay pretty safe.

Now, if you've ruled out the M16 for whatever reason-- the HK Sear would be my second choice -- it's a little
less common, and seems to be more expensive right now than an M16A1.  Further, the availability of HK
hosts & magazines is somewhat less so than M16/AR15 uppers, and HK is generally more expensive (for
similar quality).  I've also found some HK hosts need a bit more tinkering to get to run correctly, than uppers
one puts on an M16.

The AC556 would be a less expensive option, and I see parts kits available for these from numerous sources.
(although, I do not think it will be as easy to maintain or suppress, as the M16 or HK).

If you're looking something that's more a collector piece, something like the BAR would be an option... it's
going to be relatively expensive, though.

Good luck!


Link Posted: 2/17/2016 1:27:32 PM EDT
[#25]
I can give advice on what to not buy...M14.



Before you buy an M1A1/M14, read this...




http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5CM1G-FAQs%5CWeld.htm




I would never buy an M1 or M14 without first being allowed to X-ray or magnaflux test the gun.




Two sellers, who I interacted with acted just as described in the article. When I asked to test, they got really offended and demanded that I take them at their word that the guns were not rewelded guns. I really wanted one of the guns, so I offered that instead of testing, I would pay an expert to go examine the gun. He then came up with this BS story that only law enforcement was allowed on his premises. Then when I asked to have my expert meet at a third party location, he started calling me names. Note that I was going to do this all at my expense.




I have given up trying to buy an M14. It's not worth the headache and excuses.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:59:47 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:I have given up trying to buy an M14. It's not worth the headache and excuses.
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If you are interested in that style of rifle, I can recommend the BM59.  Significantly cheaper, the pedigree tends to be better and incredibly shootable.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:22:29 PM EDT
[#27]
HK Sear should be the next on your list. Get a Registered HK sear in 3 calibers (9mm, 5.56 & .308), then add three separate hosts - an MP5, and HK53 and an HK51.

Link Posted: 2/22/2016 1:49:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Sear doesn't have a bore and caliber means nothing to them.



Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

HK Sear should be the next on your list. Get a Registered HK sear in 3 calibers (9mm, 5.56 & .308), then add three separate hosts - an MP5, and HK53 and an HK51.

View Quote

Link Posted: 2/22/2016 2:21:56 PM EDT
[#29]
When I was at Battlefield Las Vegas I fired a FA Micro Galil, if money were no object and FA was legal where I live I would own a vault full of them.

ETA: I dropped damn near 3k shooting there, so I tried lots of stuff
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 11:23:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 12:35:27 AM EDT
[#31]


I know that some of these D44s are being imported
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 10:26:24 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.
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Quoted:
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.


Congrats! Im sure you wont be disappointed.



That would be awesome but I dont know where i would store it let alone shoot it. At least most MGs can fit in the trunk of your car, you would need one truck to pull the cannon and another to haul the ammo and supplies
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 4:42:44 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.
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Awesome. Congratulations. You will love your M16. What did you buy?
Link Posted: 2/24/2016 11:33:15 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:


Awesome. Congratulations. You will love your M16. What did you buy?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.


Awesome. Congratulations. You will love your M16. What did you buy?


Picked up a SP1 conversion.
Link Posted: 2/25/2016 11:58:08 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:


Picked up a SP1 conversion.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.


Awesome. Congratulations. You will love your M16. What did you buy?


Picked up a SP1 conversion.


Be sure to post pictures when you get it
Link Posted: 2/25/2016 5:08:47 PM EDT
[#36]

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Quoted:
Picked up a SP1 conversion.

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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.




Awesome. Congratulations. You will love your M16. What did you buy?




Picked up a SP1 conversion.





 



If you don't mind my asking,  what did it cost you?
Link Posted: 2/27/2016 10:16:20 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:

 

If you don't mind my asking,  what did it cost you?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.


Awesome. Congratulations. You will love your M16. What did you buy?


Picked up a SP1 conversion.

 

If you don't mind my asking,  what did it cost you?


Picked it up for 15k.  Thought it was a very reasonable price in today's market
Link Posted: 2/28/2016 3:36:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Congrats on your purchase!!

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Quoted:


Picked it up for 15k.  Thought it was a very reasonable price in today's market
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well thanks for all the suggestions and I took them to heart and may have a deal pending on a M16.


Awesome. Congratulations. You will love your M16. What did you buy?


Picked up a SP1 conversion.

 

If you don't mind my asking,  what did it cost you?


Picked it up for 15k.  Thought it was a very reasonable price in today's market

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