I'm seeing M-10s in the ballpark of $5k whereas M-11s are all around $6k or more.  Here's a M10 (9) for $5185. Why the diiference in price from a M11?

What am I looking for when buying one? Anything in particular?  I plan on running a Lage upper on it.

Thanks in advance.

Its probably because of a couple of issues.

1. M11/9s have a reputation for better aftermarket support

2. M10/9s in the doublestack mag (Walther MPL) variety had a historical reputation for high cost and scarcity. Although not really an issue today.

3. There are a bunch of M10 manufacturers out there of differing quality, which scares some folks off.  All M11/9s are SWD and pretty much identical.

3. I don't believe Lage ever came out with a M10 version of the 22lr kit

4. Cosmetically the longer/thinner M11 probably looks a touch bit better when the taller Lage upper is installed.  The squatter/fatter M10 frame makes the already larger frame MAC look even taller.  Probably comes down to personal choice but the Lage uppers look a bit more at home on the M11.

I just went through this recently.  
This is what I learned....
M10s are the higher quality gun compared to the m11/9, they are literally made better, so always have a higher price tag.  UNTIL Richard lage made his uppers for the m11/9.  Now because of all of the variations of uppers and parts the m11/9s are going way up in cost.  Versatility is worth a lot in the MG world for most.  
They will both continue to rise in cost and at times one or the other will be higher depending on what is coming out or happening in the world.  Also remember there are fewer m10's.

A couple things to take into account though.  What do you want to shoot out of it, looks, history, quality, and lastly ability to shoot the gun in stock form.
If you want to shoot 45,9,22 go with a m10/45
If you want to shoot 9,22 go with a m10/9
If you want to shoot .380, 9 and drums go with an m11a1
If you want to shoot 9,22 and drums go with a m11/9

I prefer the beefier stockier look of the m10 over the long, lean look of the m11/9
More history with the m10
Higher build quality in the m10
Slower ROF in the m10 than the m11 in stock form.  Depends on what your preference is.

In the scheme of things 1k isn't much, so if you want the m11/9 over the m10 don't let the difference in cost change your mind otherwise you'll never be happy.

I ended up deciding on an m10/9 over the m11/9 for the reasons I listed above.
I don't knock the m11/9 at all, definitely a good gun, lots of people love it, I just preferred the MAC10

Good luck with your decision!

ETA '86 m11/9's are known to have issues, because they were being built quickly to get registered before the ban so be careful with these.

Check out nfasales.com for some good m10's

Thanks guys. This helps.

Soooo what you're saying is a factory mac10 is of higher quality than a factory Mac 11? But the Mac 11 with Lage upper is preferred to a Mac 10 with Lage upper?

There are many variations of traditional MAC 10s out there.  Original Military Armament Corp - Powder Springs GA. guns, Military Armament Corp - Marientta GA. guns, RPB, Jersey Arms, Leatherwood, SWD, etc.

Some of the MAC10 guns are hybrids where Jersey arms made a receiver channel but SWD finished the final welding and build years later.

Original MAC Powder Springs guns from an esteem perspective seem to be held at the top of the totem-pole by many folks.  Leatherwood/Texas MACs see to fall toward the bottom due to their use of non-standard parts, build quality (although many were reworked), and a Cobray logo that was milled off the frame, leaving a divot in its place.

That said all MAC10 to the best of my knowledge used thicker gauge sheet metal in their construction vs. their SWD M11 counterparts, so that may be where some of the better quality reputation comes in.  

All M11/9s were made by SWD from roughly 82 to 86.  While tolerances on any MAC build are not necessarily the best, the M11/9 family all being made by the same company makes them more identical to each other than say an M10 frame made by Leatherwood and rewelded by another C2 vs. an original MAC PS gun.

For accessory makers this greater standardization across platform probably makes things a bit easier.  There are also more M11/9s out there so the market is larger as well.

Lage M10 vs. Lage M11 the only significant difference I can think of is the cosmetics for some folks and that there is no 22lr kit for the Lage M10 upper that I am aware of.  (somebody can correct me if I am wrong)  The 22LR kit absence from the Lage M10 lineup is a significant detraction for many I presume.

Thanks for that detailed post. How much can I expect to pay for a Mac11 in 9mm? And any sites I should monitor for sale listings?

My very first mg was a PS Mac 10/9.

I love it still today.


I had Sam at pract sol, convert it to a Uzi grip, and then mod my late upper too.


I did have a 22 kit for it, ran like shit.


It heavy as a pig but damn if I do not love her.



Op will this be your only mg?

Above when i said build quality, I was talking about the thicker metal and the small parts in the lower.  This is not from experience, just what I've read here, among other forums.  Obviously it's not a huge difference, since so many more people have m11/9s and there are HUGE complaints about quality.  
Also, as far as quality I would stick with the Marietta MAC or the RPB, and double stamp guns as far as the m10's.  The others could have issues and some have proprietary parts.

M11/9s seem to be going for 6-6.5k now.  I'm sure deals can be found for less, but you have to wait and look.  8 months ago they were going for 5k and less.....
Meanwhile Mac10's are about 5-5.5k.  Both will go up from here.
Dealernfa.com
Nfasales.com
Davidspiwak.com

I've personally bought from the top 2 and highly recommend them, and I've heard good things about David.

Hmm... I'm interested in a Mac11 if I can get a Lage 9mm upper. If I understand it right... I could get a .380 Mac11 and just swap out the upper for a Lage 9mm, right? The .380 Mac11s seem to be a tad cheaper and more available than the 9mm version.

Yep, there are two versions of magwells on the Mac11 though, and one is preferred over the other because of mags.  I'm not too familiar with these guns though. But yes you can get a 9mm upper for the Mac11.

There also appears to have been a few Form 1 MAC10s built by individuals, though I haven't seen one on a "For Sale" website in quite a while.

The mid to late 70's, after MAC went under,  there were complete parts kits often advertised that consisted of all parts and the flats. I belive that they were already drilled as well. A Form 1 MAC would have required a few accurte bends and off to the races I suppose.

Yes, I have little fascination and I don't plan in putting a lot of $$ into MGs.  My instinct is that 20-30 years from now these will be banned and then confiscated.  Maybe a bit longer but demographics are a bitch and the Marxists have long range strategy that hinges on an unarmed population. Just the way it is...so I'll keep this around so the kids can train until a boot steps on my throat.


To be candid  I was blessed, if you can call it that , of having had alomost limitless access to FA weapons and ammo throughout a significant portion of my .MIL career.  I probably have close to 100-150k rounds, or more, out of an MP-5 alone. Just went with the job. Same for CAR15, M4, crew served. So again, I'm not all that fascinated with FA.

I'm really just looking at picking up an inexpensive fun gun for the grand kids. I'll put a Lage on this and a can.

Not certain if they are cheaper or not but I personally prefer the M11A1 (.380 version) over the M11/9. In stock configuration the A1 is a completely useless toy that is a ton of fun to do mag dumps with. Insanely high ROF. And Lage offers aftermarket products to convert it to a reliable 9mm platform.

The only downside is as of now Lage has discontinued production of their Max11A1 uppers. If you like the Max31A1 (drum fed upper) then that shouldn't be a problem.

Ist there any place or sight that give a more precise rundown of MAC prices per builder and caliber ?

MachinegunPriceGuides gives a good ballpark but all makes are lumped together M10 or M11.
I have a PS MAC10 .45 and a RPB M11A1 in .380 that I want to sell and am looking for a fair price.

I want to have all my stuff not needed sold and a Colt Thompson bought before any more rule changes go into effect.

We are re-introducing the MAX-11A1/380 and MAX-11A1/9 upper receivers this year.  They will be billet aluminum, like the rest of our mk2 uppers.

I totally agree.  The shorter platform makes a big difference when aftermarket uppers are used.  All that one gives up is the ability to have 22lr conversion kits, but my days of screwing around with those are long over.  Don't get me started on the fallacy of "cheap shooting" with those uppers...


I totally disagree.  The A1 is highly compact and controllable.  I can easily deliver triple taps on target, but cannot get anything less.  1800RPM from something the size of a large frame Glock is a joy to behold!

IMHO, the A1 is underrated.  This was understandable in the pre-Lage days, but those uppers make it the equal of the M11/9 in terms of the end result, and superior in terms of size.

I really don't think I would but If I was to do another Mac type I'd do the m11a1.  So I'd have the Big Mac and little Mac, skipping the middle one.  I like to be at the extremes

That where I am.  I have an SWD M11A1 and a Powder Springs M10/45.

I would think most of those are open bolt semi auto guns that were form 1'd and converted to full auto.

You should really get a hold of an M11/Nine and a Mac 10 to at least feel (or even better shoot).

Lage Mfg's products have made the Macs usable. The M11/Nine and M11A1 (.380) guns with the large mag well are just a whole lot more comfortable and easier to lug around. A Lage equipped Mac 10 is just way too heavy for my tastes.

M11/Nine is really the best choice (IMHO), but I'd also consider the M11A1 (.380) with the larger mag well that takes zytel mags. This larger mag well gun is easily converted to be able to shoot 9mm (way cheaper and a better all around round) with a Lage Mfg upper.

M11A1 with Lage Mfg Max-31K upper...



M11/Nine with Max-11 mk2 upper...



My favorite, the Max-31...

Check that out...another reason to consider the M 11A1 guns!

Since the M11's were posted here is a M10 with lage upper for comparison. Shown with a LMT 10.5 inch SBR to show size. The LMT has a Gem-tech halo and the M10 has a Silencerco Octane 45.

Damn the m10 just looks so hot to me.  I prefer the fat stumpier look over the m11 setup.  Thanks for the comparison to the ar pic, don't see those at all.

Thanks. The gun just came back from Sam and practical solutions. It is a Texas M10 that he rewelded and setup with standard parts.

How long was the turnaround time on the reweld? I need to get them to do receiver tabs for mine.


OP, I have a PS M10 and love it so far. Paid $4625 before taxes off of GB in June of last year. Haven't got the Lage upper to play nice yet, but the USMG upper runs great with Geco 230 grain FMJ.

Mine was a full rebuild, new internals, magwell, etc. At the time he had like a 3 month wait period to get started. Then like a month to do it. I think he took like just over 3 months total. Rework looks good.

I have both an M11/9 and a MAC-10.   They have both needed seams rewelded.  The MAC is an original Ingram gun.  The M11/9 is tricker out with Lage Mk1 uppers in both 9mm and 22 conversion.   The MAC just has a side cocker with optic rail and lage sliding stock, caliber is 45.

Until recently when Lage released the MK2 aluminum upper, I would have said M11/9 all the way.  With the old steel uppers, the MAC-10 just got too heavy.

However, with an M11/9 all tricked out, it does definitely feel more svelte and seems like something that could have been released onto the market in the last 10-20 years.  However, even handling the newer Mk2 on a MAC, the MAC-10 still feels like your sorta Frankensteining it together.

Lage tends to not experiment much with MAC uppers, he says there is just too much variance between manufacturers.  However, I would gladly send him my MAC to have it personnally fitted with a Suomi drum upper if required.  Forget the company's name, but they had some rifle caliber uppers available briefly and were planning a belt fed upper for the MAC, but they never got around to it.

I likes mine.

Found one on Sturmgewehr.com.  M-10/45 with Lage upper and just sent funds to start the transfer.

Only downside is that it didn't come with the original upper assembly. Will try to find an orginal M10/45 upper but really don't plan on shooting this all that much. I figured I'd get one before I was told by some unelected official that I couldn't.