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Posted: 9/8/2015 9:01:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Not quite the same, but my first gun was an M1 Carbine
I'd have ZERO hesitation in buying an M1 or an M2 if such things were legal where I live. Neither are - lost my M1 in the gun ban here some decades ago - but it was a FUN range gun & very very simple to load for: never had 1 factory round through it in all the time I owned it (nowhere stocked the ammo so it was reloads only from day one) An M2 - hell yes! 
Possibly among the top two or three full auto's I'd love to own - one other being a kp/31 9mm Go get it!! |
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Posted: 9/8/2015 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not quite the same, but my first gun was an M1 Carbine I'd have ZERO hesitation in buying an M1 or an M2 if such things were legal where I live. Neither are - lost my M1 in the gun ban here some decades ago - but it was a FUN range gun & very very simple to load for: never had 1 factory round through it in all the time I owned it (nowhere stocked the ammo so it was reloads only from day one) An M2 - hell yes!
Possibly among the top two or three full auto's I'd love to own - one other being a kp/31 9mm Go get it!! Sad to hear about you losing your gun. Question for someone that's never been over there. How did it work when the ban happened? Did they allow you to grandfather things and keep it if registered, or was it just a strait up confiscation with no other options? If it was confiscation, that's messed up. How is that even legal? Or I guess in other countries that is legal? Did they at least pay you for the value it was worth? OP - I know that for me, I have thought about buying a full auto M2 for a while, but when I get around to it, there are just many more full autos that are out there that I would rather have. I'm sure this is the way many other full auto collectors feel. The ammo is also a slightly od caliber. With that being said, I'll probably get one in a couple years once I'm done getting some other things first. |
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Posted: 9/8/2015 10:25:01 PM EDT
[#3]
collegeboy stated--
"OP - I know that for me, I have thought about buying a full auto M2 for a while, but when I get around to it, there are just many more full autos that are out there that I would rather have. I'm sure this is the way many other full auto collectors feel. The ammo is also a slightly od caliber. With that being said, I'll probably get one in a couple years once I'm done getting some other things first.' The collection you have (that I've seen) is certainly most impressive; any particular driving force or "theme" that you use to prioritize acquisitions? (for example, "WW2 arms," etc.) |
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Posted: 9/8/2015 10:39:52 PM EDT
[#4]
The first M1 Carbine I'd ever shot was an M2! But only one 30 rd mag. Shot three rounds semi then flipped the happy switch and emptied the mag with 3 round bursts. It was damned easy to keep all three rounds on a 25 yd gong. I swore if I ever bought a machine gun it would be an M2.
I would guess the scarcity of ammo and lack of being able to reconfigure it to something else is what makes it so underappreciated. |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 12:03:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Never fired one but seems like a fun gun, and at only a bit more than a entry level MG like a stem or a Mac. You could also reload to get the price down on the ammo
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Posted: 9/9/2015 11:00:53 AM EDT
[#6]
For this route, I would go with a registered kit instead of M2 receiver. With the kit, there are caliber options and host options. Price is about the same at this time.
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Posted: 9/9/2015 1:38:03 PM EDT
[#7]
It's strange that the M2 has been ignored by collectors.
The M1 is very avidly collected by gun collectors and it has all of the properties that make a gun very collectable: 1. Old school solid steel and wood construction 2. Associated with huge dramatic historical event (WW2) 3. Made by famous gun-makers 4. Easily recognizable iconic gun design 5. Short "bad ass" carbine length gun issued to officers and elite troops like paratroopers 6. Excellent fit and finish 7. Excellent reputation and long military service 8. USGI military weapon The M2 adds another desirable feature for collectors: 9. Full auto You would think that with all that going for it, it would be one of the hot collectables. But it sits languishing at the bottom of the NFA heap along with "the shooters", guns with little or no collector interest. It's strange. Maybe sometime in the future it will take fire and suddenly jump into the next price bracket. By the way, the list I wrote is just a summary of the features that make guns interesting to collectors. It would apply to any guns. Most people think that "old and rare" makes guns desirable to collectors but actually old and rare don't count for much. There are plenty of old and rare hardware store shotguns and 22s sitting in closets all over the USA that are worth $50 each |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 2:18:11 PM EDT
[#8]
My first M1 Carbine cost me $17 plus $4 shipping, and it was mailed to my house by the U.S. Department of Civilian Marksmanship. Those were the days.....
As far as the M2 goes, the drawbacks are: --Ammo is expensive, and many/most indoor ranges won't let you shoot it. At least, they wouldn't last time I asked. Since many outdoor ranges ban FA altogether, you are pretty much reduced to MG shoots. --Ammo is inconsistent in loadings, and while an M1 in semi can handle hotter-than-milspec pressures, full-auto is another issue entirely. --The M2 is a wartime adaptation of the semi M1, and the receiver was never designed or built to withstand a lot of FA use over time. I've seen several M2 receivers break over the years (see the issue with hot ammo above), and they are a PITA to repair to a level to withstand FA use again. Generally, they are written off ... something tough to do with a transferable MG. So you've got an MG that you can't shoot in many places, but you probably shouldn't shoot as much as you would, say, an M11/9 or an M16. It makes a great tenth MG in a collection, but not what you might want for a first or second FA toy. As far as registered M2 kits: These avoid the receiver-break issues, but be aware that there was no rule about which part to engrave with SN and maker's mark. If you get one, look for one with the name/SN on the trigger guard, which rarely sees any wear. Try to avoid those with this info on the selector, which has been known to break. YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 5:19:16 PM EDT
[#9]
What he said. I was going to jump on one a while back but their prone to expensive damage is just not worth it . I'd rather get another Mac at that point or a sten. Quote HistoryQuoted:
My first M1 Carbine cost me $17 plus $4 shipping, and it was mailed to my house by the U.S. Department of Civilian Marksmanship. Those were the days..... As far as the M2 goes, the drawbacks are: --Ammo is expensive, and many/most indoor ranges won't let you shoot it. At least, they wouldn't last time I asked. Since many outdoor ranges ban FA altogether, you are pretty much reduced to MG shoots. --Ammo is inconsistent in loadings, and while an M1 in semi can handle hotter-than-milspec pressures, full-auto is another issue entirely. --The M2 is a wartime adaptation of the semi M1, and the receiver was never designed or built to withstand a lot of FA use over time. I've seen several M2 receivers break over the years (see the issue with hot ammo above), and they are a PITA to repair to a level to withstand FA use again. Generally, they are written off ... something tough to do with a transferable MG. So you've got an MG that you can't shoot in many places, but you probably shouldn't shoot as much as you would, say, an M11/9 or an M16. It makes a great tenth MG in a collection, but not what you might want for a first or second FA toy. As far as registered M2 kits: These avoid the receiver-break issues, but be aware that there was no rule about which part to engrave with SN and maker's mark. If you get one, look for one with the name/SN on the trigger guard, which rarely sees any wear. Try to avoid those with this info on the selector, which has been known to break. YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 6:33:03 PM EDT
[#10]
As well as the negative already noted, designed, at least in part, by a convict. Got a bad reputation, perhaps unjustified, in The Corean Conflict (later known as The Korean War) due to claims of poor ammo penetration and lack of knock down power.
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Posted: 9/9/2015 10:43:57 PM EDT
[#11]
hey back in the olden days of the late 90s, wasn't an M2 worth about a half dozen H&K sears... so they were popular once.
As far as forbidden on an indoor range? Is it a range only setup for pistol calibers? Never heard anything like that here in AZ but any indoor range that tries to be a hard ass around here goes out of business. |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 10:54:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks to everyone who has taken time to respond to my original post. I'll
just respond to a few points & add comments. tony_k said--
Ammo is expensive, and many/most indoor ranges won't let you shoot it. At least, they wouldn't last time I asked. Since many outdoor ranges ban FA altogether, you are pretty much reduced to MG shoots. --Ammo is inconsistent in loadings, and while an M1 in semi can handle hotter-than-milspec pressures, full-auto is another issue entirely. --The M2 is a wartime adaptation of the semi M1, and the receiver was never designed or built to withstand a lot of FA use over time. I've seen several M2 receivers break over the years (see the issue with hot ammo above), and they are a PITA to repair to a level to withstand FA use again. Generally, they are written off ... something tough to do with a transferable MG. -- So you've got an MG that you can't shoot in many places, but you probably shouldn't shoot as much as you would, say, an M11/9 or an M16. It makes a great tenth MG in a collection, but not what you might want for a first or second FA toy. - My most convenient indoor range allows FA & .30 carbine, so I'm good there - The receiver & ammo issues may be valid (will do more research), but I probably won't run it that hard, anyway. If I can find one, the registered conversion kit would mitigate this issue. - Agreed-- I likely won't shoot it nearly as much as my M11/9 and M16 (if for ammo availability issues if no other reason) I'd rather get another Mac at that point or a sten A C&R Sten would definitely have some historical appeal, but to me Stens look like they were made in a garage... (and some were, I suppose... ). And, not only is the M1/M2 more refined than the Sten, the carbine (5.2 lbs.) is actually lighter than a Sten (7.1 lbs). As well as the negative already noted, designed, at least in part, by a convict. Got a bad reputation, perhaps
unjustified, in The [K]orean Conflict (later known as The Korean War) due to claims of poor ammo penetration and lack of knock down power I've never personally thought of the involvement of David "Carbine" Williams as necessarily a negative for the .30 carbine project, although he certainly was a convicted felon. As for the round-- I have an M1 carbine already, and I've "come to peace," as it were, with the round's intended operational envelope and capabilities (as well as its limitations). I have heard that late in the Korean war, the M1/M2 Carbine was preferred even over the Garand for breaking up the "human wave" tactics used by the Chinese (in particular, the Garand's superior range wasn't of much value during night battles in Korea, whereas the 30-rd capacity of the M1/M2 was advantageous). SD |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 12:55:29 PM EDT
[#13]
the German troops loved the M1 Carbine in WWII and used every one they could get their hands on
they even printed a user's manual for it ironically, the gun was developed because of the blitzkrieg tactics of the Germans, where support troops would suddenly find themselves on the tip of the spear there was a rumor circulating that the M1 would not penetrate the winter uniform of a Chinese soldier but I would not want to be the test subject for that the M1 round has the same energy at 200 yards as the muzzle energy of a 38 special I call "gun shop BS" on that rumor as far as the gun itself goes, they made 6 million of them and used them in WWII, korea and Vietnam if the gun had problems, it would have been discovered over that massive test several million guns used in 15 years worth of global war should be enough to figure out if the gun works or not |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 3:40:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Somewhat tested on Box of Truth (http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-36-frozen-clothing-and-the-box-o-truth/) and I could have sworn it was tested on Mythbusters. Anyway, .30 carbine has no problem with any reasonable amount of fabric, frozen or otherwise.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the German troops loved the M1 Carbine in WWII and used every one they could get their hands on they even printed a user's manual for it ironically, the gun was developed because of the blitzkrieg tactics of the Germans, where support troops would suddenly find themselves on the tip of the spear there was a rumor circulating that the M1 would not penetrate the winter uniform of a Chinese soldier but I would not want to be the test subject for that the M1 round has the same energy at 200 yards as the muzzle energy of a 38 special I call "gun shop BS" on that rumor as far as the gun itself goes, they made 6 million of them and used them in WWII, korea and Vietnam if the gun had problems, it would have been discovered over that massive test several million guns used in 15 years worth of global war should be enough to figure out if the gun works or not |
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Posted: 9/14/2015 9:17:42 AM EDT
[#15]
I've got one incoming on a F4. Was selling some guns to buy a SW76, those guns included consecutive M1 Garands and a high 6M serial Garand. I ended up trading those 3 and a few more guns to a museum for an M2, but I was 3/4 of the way into raising the money for my SW76, so I had to dig deeper.
Anyway, it's a registered receiver gun, and there is some history behind this particular piece. I wasn't seeking out an M2, but ended up with one. I'll shoot it a little, but my M11/9+Lage uppers are what I run every weekend, followed by my BRP U9 (Stemple Tube Gun). It (the M2) will get shot some but not as much. |
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Posted: 9/14/2015 1:18:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks to all who have responded. Here's at least one documented source I was able to find
for M1 carbine performance in combat: "Infantry Operations and Weapons Usage in Korea, Winter of 1950-51" (see Chapter XIII) Worth a quick look by all those interested in this topic, but suffice it to say that the entire report is highly critical of the M1 Carbine, at least in the Korean war setting. In summary, criticisms included: - limited range & stopping power
- unreliable, especially in the cold and/or fully automatic fire (needed to "warm up") - "too delicate" All that said, I did find this part of the report almost amusing-- "The carbine is a handy weapon for the individual whose duties take him to the line only
occasionally, for rear area troops dealing with minor threats to their local security, and for minor escort and convoy duties where there is a danger of being jumped suddenly and at close range. In guerrilla-infested country, or in lateral operations by vehicles behind a thinly held front where the threat of infiltration is constant, its automatic features provide an additional measure of protection. For example, three men in a jeep, moving through country where they might be jumped by a small enemy group at a bad spot in the road, are doubtless better protected if they carry one tommy gun and two carbines, rather than a tommy gun and two M1s." In a sentence, "when used in the role for which it was designed the M1 carbine is actually not so bad." SD |
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Posted: 9/14/2015 4:22:47 PM EDT
[#17]
I love mine. Fun to shoot. Historical. Ive got enough ammo for it ill never run out, but truthfully, i dont bring it out too often.. Just prefer the uzi, m16 or belt feds that get shot a lot more.
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Posted: 9/19/2015 9:26:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hail Mary:
For this route, I would go with a registered kit instead of M2 receiver. With the kit, there are caliber options and host options. Price is about the same at this time. there's an idea I hadn't thought of. Isn't there a company making a 9mm version of the M1 Carbine now? I wonder if a conversion kit would work with one of those. You could get a "historical" gun, plus a cheap-to-shoot gun, and swap the conversion kit. |
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