Curious what everyone thinks. Which one would you get and why?

Not an even comparison at all.

M249, proven, good design, I have used one for years, including Afghanistan in 06 and 07.

ARES, clever, not proven. The barrel isn't as good both in quality and the fact that you have to grab the barrel to change it out, WTF?

You get a machine gun to be a machine gun. It just wouldn't hold up if you really had to use it, in direct comparison to existing designs. Though 7.1lbs is pretty impressive.

Either would be fun if you have the money to shoot it... lol

If I was a FFL01 with SOT and could get a demo letter for a M249 SAW or I was an FFL07 with SOTand new how to build one from scratch....than I would pick the SAW.

If you don't fit into either of those categories than you are going to effectively be looking at a Shrike as your only option.

didn't know you had to grab the barrel to change it that is pretty ridiculous. I'm looking at getting an M 249 kit but started contemplating a Ares Shrike because of the weight.

I guess its he weight of the Ares that gets me. Its half the weight of an unloaded 249 which gives you more mobility and could carry more ammo. BUT your right not really been around long enough to be proven.

Im interested to hear more opinions.

You don't need to grab the barrel on the latest gen 5 shrike, it had a handle.

The m249 is way more reliable and proven as mentioned. The shrike has had many variations all of which have had issues. I don't have one but some people love them others hate them. As for weight shrike is lighter but heavier MGs absorb recoil better. The shrike, which is really just and upper for a m16 is more versatile, you can have a belt fed one min, push two pins swap the upper and you have a M4, MK18, 9mm SMG, 300blk, 22lr or various other firearm....a m249 will always be a m249.

If you have the cash and want a dedicated belt fed MG get the M249, if youre on a budget and want one MG that will handle all your needs get a non-colt M16 RR with a shrike upper. If I had the cash and could find a decent deal on a shrike I would pick one up to use on my M16, but at $4-5k its out of my budget at the moment and i would expect something to be a bit more reliable for that price

I do not think there are more than 1 or 2 transferable 249s.

Of all the shoots I have been to, I have never seen Shrike still working by lunch time.

I would get an HK/BF.

I never realized almost all of the M249s were pre-may samples, but it makes sense since must if not all had to be imported after 1976.
$50k+ and needing to have a SOT/FFL seems like quite a hassle and expense to obtain one.

If OP is willing to consider other belt feds i hear the M60E6 is pretty awesome.

To be clear, the Gun Control Act of '68, limited the importation of NFA items including machineguns for private individuals.  My limited understanding is the FN Minimi (the model the M249 is based on) was made in Belgian and did not exist in '68.  So there would be no factory transferable examples that I am aware of.  The few transferables either had the original side plate demilled and then rewelded, or a new side plate was made and registered by a 07 manufacturer before May 19, 1986.

It would seem to me that to answer the original post, the original poster would need to be more specific about what he wants the 5.56X45 belt fed to do.  Do you have to carry it for miles to use it?  Sustained fire important, or is this a range toy?  What is the budget for the project?  Are you an 07, a class III dealer (can you get a Demo letter), private individual?  My guess is that given the answer above, the OP is a private individual.  The # I've heard "kicked around" is a total of five transferables of this model.  So I would imagine that if a transferable came up for sale it would be well into six figures.  I'm sorry but I don't know know how a date in 1976 has an effect on machineguns.  The two major dates for machineguns is I am aware of is the enactment of the GCA of '69 and the Hughs Amendment of the Firearms Protection Act of 1986.  Typically a Pre May would be around half of a transferable example.  $50,000 for a Pre May sounds very low.  The last Pre May Minimi I've notched for sale was around 10 years ago.  It was NIB and was listed for $75,000, as I recall.  YMMV.

Scott

Between the two, a SAW.

Try to get an M60.

There is only one known genuine M249 Transferable per Dan Shea of LMO.   This is one that FNMI built in 84 or 85 as a test sample gun when gearing up for production for the M249 contract with the Military.  The majority of the premays were imported to FNMI prior to 86 as engineering samples as part of getting the production line up.  My understanding is that GunSouth brought in a handful of premay 249s as well.

If you want a premay 249 Dan still has some for sale new in box for 55K.  Need to be an FFL/SOT but no demo letter needed.

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=25389&query=retrieval

A used one sold for $45K back in January.

Could  somebody have built additional transferable M249 prior to 86, I guess it is possible.  However, I wouldn't purchase one without a ton of documentation, given all the funny business of swapping serial number to different guns over the years.

Just look at the MK48 Frank had for sale last week as an example.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=470541046

The MK48 didn't exist until 95 or 96.  I am not saying that its not transferable.....however personally I see no way that it could be given it missed the 86 cutoff date by a decade before FN made the first one.  I would be highly skeptical of any transferable M249, MK46, or MK48 without 100% verified/legitimate paperwork from FNMI confirming as such.

I have had a Shrike for about 4 or 5 years now.  I wouldn't personally consider them a military grade firearms.  They can be quirky at times and durability isn't necessarily their strong suit, so it wouldn't be my first choice to take into harms way.   However, if you are just looking to shoot up tannerite and watermelons like most civilian collectors do, a Shrike will scratch that 5.56 beltfed itch for a lot less than a Premay 249 or the trouble to get/make a post-sample.

there are a handful of pre-may m249s for sale right now on Subguns and sturm, all around $45-60k. I could def see a NIB selling for $75k though given their rarity, prob only an options for the serious MG collectors who are willing to jump through all of the hoops. If you watch for good deals i would think a shrike could be built with a RR for around $20k

As far as transferable .223 belt-feds are concerned, there's two options- the Shrike and the Michael's Machines 23E.  If you want something really light to shoot from the shoulder while standing, the Shrike is the way to go.  If you want something more like an LMG that is scary accurate off a bipod, get the 23E.

There was another conversion available for a while based on the Ceiner/old Colt belt-fed design that uses an AR lower, but it requires modifying the lower so it's probably best used for a postie or with a DIAS.  I don't know what the status of that conversion is right now.  They needed to use modified links, which was a PITA and they were supposedly working on a Mk. II version that would use standard links.

Unless, of course, you have a winning Powerball ticket stashed away somewhere.......

Shrike seems to have issues with common links and routinely needs the belts resized.  Sure is a lot lighter though.



I would love to see a new LMG that was more reliable than the Shrike but not as heavy as the SAW.  Unfortunately they would all be posties

Unless its just a upper similar to the shrike. Its a shame the shrike isnt a bit more reliable at a slightly cheaper price as it would be a no brainier.

Valkyrie Armaments is working on q "Mark 2" that uses standard links.  Slidefire currently has the rights to the belt feed mech.  My understanding is they are currently working on Colt hosts and are in the process of machining the guns and finishing the mech parts.  I'm fortunate enough to have a Mark 1 20" water cooled upper and a MGI quick change upper with three 14.5" heavy fluted barrels using modified Ares piston kits.  The special links can be a pain, but the gun runs great.  Here is my wife running 500 rds of Lake City in one pull, .<iframe width="640" height="360" src="RFcxuOzsoXA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> if you want to see it.

Scott

I thought about grabbing a shrike, but I'm thinking of grabbing an HK23e or 21e clone instead and hooking that up with my sear pack.  

Have to admit that I'd love to have a SAW though

I have a post sample SAW on order.  Any thoughts on need-to-have accessories other than some nutsacks and a spare barrel?
Seems like in most cases the gun is only the starting point when it comes to costs.

Hey congratulations man. Saws are great. There's a lot of haters out there, but don' listen to them. Run it wet (something with more consistency than CLP) and have fun. Personally I like to strip them down so they are light and shoot them that way. Extremely controllable.

My MM23/MM21 is almost boringly reliable.  My only continuing dread, other than ammo costs, is when I have to source some replacement barrels at $2k a pop, as I have all the other common replacement parts sourced reliably or already on-hand.

Shrike barrels are cheap by comparison.

While a post-sample M249 is cheaper than either a shrike upper or an MM23/MM21 host, I'm pretty sure M249 replacement barrels are up there, too...

If I could get any 5.56 beltfed, it would be a SAW, but that's a dream, so a Shrike and an MM23E had to do.

I haven't shot the Shrike for a while, the last time out, my brother had 2 or 3 belts go fine, then I tried and it wouldn't run right. I don't know why, probably tight links. I have since added the plastic bock to prevent the wear issue in the feed ramp.

My MM23E had issues so I had to send it back twice: last time I ran it I had 3 belts through and it ran great. I really have to go out more with it.

It's a bit heavy, so the MM hasn't been shot in a while either. The MM has no issues at all with tight links: there's so much energy in that bolt the empties are flung 20 yards, and the case mouth gets really deformed. Forget reloading half of them... and the rate of fire is impressive: a $40 belt is gone in less than 8 seconds...

Since my M60 hasn't had any issues, anything I've shot since has not lived up to the hype. But then it's hard to keep fed...

Is that M249 that you're describing possibly a minimi?  I started a thread on here a few years back on the subject and I would have to go back and look at exactly what was discovered or determined in that thread. I know that there is a fully transferable FN factory Minimi and if I recall from the thread, it's either the only one transferable or something like that.  I know for the fact it exists because my friend's father owned it from around 86 through sometime in the 90s.  It was purchased from Mckool firearms in Tulsa OK.

the thing that kept me from getting a shrike was that

1 Ares has no warrantee on them
2 some folks have had the rear receiver lug break off due to the side to side rocking that feeding from a belt induces
3 ares requires you send in your upper for them to fit a new $900 upper
4 the charging handles have also been breaking off

there is more options for full auto 223 belt guns than you guys think.



Basically for 5.56mm belt guns that are transferable
Stoner 63



Stoner 63A



Colt CMG-1



Colt CMG-2



Colt M16 conversion



Ceiner copy of Colt conversion



M60 with JRW conversion to 5.56



M249 - very few



Minimi rewelds - few



HK23E RR



HK23E - sear



Shrike - on M16/sear

XM-214 - minigun
Presample guns



Stoner 63A



Ameli



Negev



HK23E



M249 - most common