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Posted: 11/24/2014 2:04:57 AM EDT
[#1]
If you think you are only 6 months away from an Uzi, that's the way I'd go. A Mac is the typical entry level MG, but most people can't save up to an Uzi in that short of a time frame.
Honestly, if you think you can come up with the money that quick, I'd take a loan out against a paid off car and buy the Uzi today. You'll pay it off about the time the paperwork clears. This is typically what I do; refinance cars to buy MGs. I don't have any other debt so I do it to keep my credit score going for when I decide to build another house. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 7:52:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Another thing to think about is if you want a select fire instead of full auto only, as I think Mac are (correct if wrong).
Not a lot of ranges will let you shoot full auto, so if something is select fire, you can sight it in/bang away/practice there, and then blast at a full auto range. One of the better values is the FNC. You can pick up a semi/3 shot/FA rifle for 9-9.5, and it works with AR mags, and is a better rifle than the Mini14. Very few spare parts, but not many break on the FNC to begin with. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 8:49:22 AM EDT
[#3]
I have been extremely happy with my M11/9. For about $7k I have a select fire subgun with a great upper (max11), side folding stock, grip with thumb mag release and larger safety, XPS2 Eotech and Bowers VERS 9S suppressor.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 8:50:44 AM EDT
[#4]
MACs are select fire and I'd give the M11 with the Lage setup a serious look. You can even get 22lr and 5.56 conversions for them.
The FNC is a great gun too and a good value in the MG market. Uzis are fun, reliable guns and the prices seem to have settled down so I don't believe the cost will outpace your saving. My LGS has a model B conversation for under 9k that I fantasize about. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:51:28 AM EDT
[#5]
A Mac is a great entry level MG especially for people on a budget. But it seems like a lot of people quickly get bored with them because of their limited use. They can be had for $4-5k if you are patient enough to wait for a good deal. Ruben, frank and others have a large selection but their prices are on the high end usually, prob the reason they have so many In stock, they are priced for maximum profit, not to move quick. I'm on my phone but PM me and ill give you a large list of site to look for good deals.
With that being said I would highly recommend a m16 platform. While much more expensive the versatility far surpasses most other firearms. Most people have a collection of ar15 uppers in various caliber and lengths so its like having multiple MG for the price of one and there is always some new accessory you can add or thing you can do with them to keep it fun and interesting. I bought mine to be used primarily with a MK18 upper and I've seen you post in the MK18 thread as well so I'm sure you would be a fan. The cheapest option would be to get a RLL, I've seen them sell for around $12-15k recently, the next cheapest would be a non-colt RR around $15-18k Not trying to pressure you Into something you can't afford and I'm sure if you bought a Mac you would like it just think an m16 is more useful and is the kind of firearm you buy and keep for life. EDIT: http://www.sturmgewehr.com http://www.shootersdepot.com http://www.atfmachinegun.com http://www.autoweapons.com http://www.impactguns.com http://www.subguns.com http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com http://www.davidspiwak.com http://dealernfa.com http://www.gunbroker.com http://www.nfasales.com Also check this website out for a rough idea or the value of specific MGs http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/ |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:09:58 PM EDT
[#6]
I have bought 2 MG both from Ruben.
I would buy a Powder Springs PS MAC M10/45 Why 45? because then you can shoot the 45 ACP if you want. The LAGE MAX 10/9mm will fit on the M10/45 just requires a 9mm magwell adapter. The PS MAC M10/9mm and M10/45 lowers are basically the same only difference is the pistol grip/magwell on the 45 is larger. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 3:34:47 PM EDT
[#7]
To be honest, I don't know what to tell you. It's a tough call and I think one that only the buyer can make.
For instance, I have a Colt M16A1 and an HK sear. My next mg purchase will probably be either an Uzi or an AK47. Why? Because as a kid, I used to idolize specific weapons, not merely because of their rates of fire or caliber, but because of their very design. To me, the 5 coolest transferable machine guns on earth are the M16, the MP5, the AK47, the Uzi, and the M60 or M249 (of which there's only like 1). There are other cool guns out there, but those are the ones I want in my safe first. Now, you need to ask yourself how you feel about it. Have you always craved either an Uzi or an M16? Or do you simply want a machine gun because it's a machine gun, and which one doesn't really matter to you? If it doesn't, buy the MAC with a Lage upper. I think that's the best value out there right now and it's one helluva platform. I want to buy one myself, but as I say, I have other priorities for now. I guess I should be the one to caution you also that there is a risk with these things, more recently than not, that they will tank in value over the next few years if this ATF lawsuit sees success. If they manage to kill the Hughes amendment and strike down the machine gun ban, the value of all our stuff will plummet. It's a really really low chance that that will happen, but it's worth noting. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 3:40:24 PM EDT
[#8]
M11/9 with Lage is a great gun. So many options and support (I think M11/9 is most common transferable MG with 17,000 made).
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Posted: 11/24/2014 4:47:28 PM EDT
[#9]
I've two M11s, UZI and other MGs.
For entry, M11 would be a good choice but if you got extra coin, then UZI all the way. Ultra reliable in both 9mm and .22... this is the only MG that I didn't have to tweak... it just work. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 8:44:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Of the guns you listed, I'd get an M11/9. The Uzi is a better gun than the M11/9, just like the MP5 is a better gun than the Uzi. But I don't think the Uzi is $6k better than the M11/9, just like I don't think the MP5 is $12-15k better than the Uzi. Don't get a rifle caliber machine gun as your only machine gun, unless it's something like an M16 that can be changed to shoot pistol calibers and rimfire. Pistol calibers are cheaper to shoot, and there's more places where you can shoot pistol calibers.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 8:54:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Wait and get the UZI. I promise you will not regret it. I've owned everything you mentioned except the AC556 but I have some trigger time with one. There is a reason the better MGs cost more.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:15:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Is $8900 for an Uzi conversion a good deal?
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:16:49 PM EDT
[#13]
I own at least one of every gun mentioned (M11, Uzi, AC556, FNC, M16, MP5)
Once behind the trigger is an Uzi 5K more fun than a properly equipped Lage.....not in my opinion. That said if you really want an Uzi because its your dream gun, than save and get it. There is more than just pure trigger time experience in owning these guns for most of us. Sort of like asking if a porsche is worth 30K over a vette. From a performance on numbers perspective probably not. If you always wanted a porsche...than you probably wont be happy with a vette no matter how close the performance numbers are. If you are 6 months away from an Uzi do that, you will most likely be happier in the long run. That said, if you are only 6 months away from an Uzi, I would suggest holding out a handful more for an RR M16. Of all the guns I own, my registered receiver M16 will probably be the last one to go. I put more rounds through that gun than any of the others, including those with 3X its value. Is an M16 worth 2 to 2.5X a $7K Lage M11 is...yes that trade up definitely is. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:18:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is $8900 for an Uzi conversion a good deal? Depends, what type of conversion. A 100% factory correct conversion of an IMI Uzi (yes) or a Bolt gun conversion of a vector (probably not) You have a link or any other details. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:31:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Where in tx are you?
I say shoot everything you can lay your hands on. You will find a mg to get.
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Posted: 11/25/2014 12:03:26 AM EDT
[#16]
I know this sounds bad but I have never shot a mg
I have a range in my back yard so if anyone is local to Beaumont I will supply the ammo! |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 12:04:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends, what type of conversion. A 100% factory correct conversion of an IMI Uzi (yes) or a Bolt gun conversion of a vector (probably not) You have a link or any other details. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is $8900 for an Uzi conversion a good deal? Depends, what type of conversion. A 100% factory correct conversion of an IMI Uzi (yes) or a Bolt gun conversion of a vector (probably not) You have a link or any other details. http://www.nfasales.com/nfawp/weapons/ Forth row from bottom first column |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 12:13:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://www.nfasales.com/nfawp/weapons/ Forth row from bottom first column Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is $8900 for an Uzi conversion a good deal? Depends, what type of conversion. A 100% factory correct conversion of an IMI Uzi (yes) or a Bolt gun conversion of a vector (probably not) You have a link or any other details. http://www.nfasales.com/nfawp/weapons/ Forth row from bottom first column  If you are ever near Ft Hood you can try my mac(s), uzi, 16 what ever.. If you bring the ammo!!
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Posted: 11/25/2014 12:17:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://www.nfasales.com/nfawp/weapons/ Forth row from bottom first column Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is $8900 for an Uzi conversion a good deal? Depends, what type of conversion. A 100% factory correct conversion of an IMI Uzi (yes) or a Bolt gun conversion of a vector (probably not) You have a link or any other details. http://www.nfasales.com/nfawp/weapons/ Forth row from bottom first column NONONONO, its a sloted bolt Uzis need 3 things to be converted. The Blocking bar removed, the restricter ring removed, and unmm something else. that is a Reg bolt or a RR with a unreg bolt. both of these are bad. Look for a Vector HR 4332 |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 12:23:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NONONONO, its a sloted bolt Uzis need 3 things to be need. The Blocking bar removed, the restricter ring removed, and unmm something else. that is a Reg bolt or a RR with a unreg bolt. both of these are bad. Look for a Vector HR 4332 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is $8900 for an Uzi conversion a good deal? Depends, what type of conversion. A 100% factory correct conversion of an IMI Uzi (yes) or a Bolt gun conversion of a vector (probably not) You have a link or any other details. http://www.nfasales.com/nfawp/weapons/ Forth row from bottom first column NONONONO, its a sloted bolt Uzis need 3 things to be need. The Blocking bar removed, the restricter ring removed, and unmm something else. that is a Reg bolt or a RR with a unreg bolt. both of these are bad. Look for a Vector HR 4332 Thanks, seemed too good to be true, and like always it was |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 1:14:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Agreed that Uzi looks to be a married bolt conversion that was done by one of the less regarded quality-wise C2s back in the 70s & 80s (HTA i.e. JD Farmer of Hard Times Armory)
Most likely the semi auto bolt was run through a couple passes in a table saw with a concrete/cutoff blade mounted in it to make the channel, the striker was just welded forward and who knows how the lower lip on the bolt face was done (vs milling a proper slot in a factory full auto bolt) Given all these married together and now irreplaceable conversion parts, it doesn't give you much options to fix it the right way if the gun doesn't run right. Ruben has what appears to be a proper conversion gun for 11.6 that I would take in a heartbeat over an HTA slotted bolt conversion gun for only 2.7K more. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:35:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Any opinions on the one that is on EE?
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:26:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any opinions on the one that is on EE? That is a Vector built gun on a Group Ind. receiver. I have one of these and it has never had any issues. The Vector built / Group receiver guns are some of the better ones out there. Did Vector put out some problematic gun...sure but most if not all were fixed under Vectors warranty many years ago and now run just fine. The majority of the issues were in relation to the welds on the trunion that were not deep enough. These are full SMG spec guns as well so there should be any easy fix in case there is a problem down the road. That is a pretty solid buy for 11K. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 2:24:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a Vector built gun on a Group Ind. receiver. I have one of these and it has never had any issues. The Vector built / Group receiver guns are some of the better ones out there. Did Vector put out some problematic gun...sure but most if not all were fixed under Vectors warranty many years ago and now run just fine. The majority of the issues were in relation to the welds on the trunion that were not deep enough. These are full SMG spec guns as well so there should be any easy fix in case there is a problem down the road. That is a pretty solid buy for 11K. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any opinions on the one that is on EE? That is a Vector built gun on a Group Ind. receiver. I have one of these and it has never had any issues. The Vector built / Group receiver guns are some of the better ones out there. Did Vector put out some problematic gun...sure but most if not all were fixed under Vectors warranty many years ago and now run just fine. The majority of the issues were in relation to the welds on the trunion that were not deep enough. These are full SMG spec guns as well so there should be any easy fix in case there is a problem down the road. That is a pretty solid buy for 11K. This, And I have a Vector 22 kit with Vector metal mags and it RUNs like a sewing machine. Research and learn the ins and out now, that way when a deal pops up you have knowledge and cash in hand. That said, if you do get a Mac 11, 10, or a 11a1. you can upgrade it to be a better shooter then an Uzi. But it will be heavier and not be built like a tank. But you can sell and recope a lot of the the money and buy an Uzi with the sale money. Macs and Uzis are both great guns. You will do well with ether.. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 2:47:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Guys I really appreciate the advice. That said I believe I am going to wait till after Christmas to get my bonus and try to find a deal on a Uzi/ m-16 RR.
Hopefully I can find something local |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 5:56:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any opinions on the one that is on EE? I LOVE that gun specifically. That Hebrew marked lower gives me a serious hardon. I know I can't swing it having just bought my mp5, but man I really want that gun. If he was local, I would try my hardest to work out a payment plan or something on it, such is my craving. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 2:25:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Now the price of a Uzi has me thinking of a RLL
DOES IT EVER END |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 4:49:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now the price of a Uzi has me thinking of a RLL DOES IT EVER END Auto Connectors are fun, but for the small jump from there you can have a RR.  And once you hit the RR area, you can use ALL you current Ar stuff uppers, mags, optics, stocks. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 8:18:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Gahhhhh you are so right!
A RR is almost double what I have saved right now (7.5k) |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 9:05:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Any of you guys familiar with NFA adventures in DFW? He's selling a m11/9 unfired for 5500 doesn't seem like a bad price at all for a local deal
Also thanks for all the help and sorry for all the questions, just want to gain all of the knowledge I can. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 9:18:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any of you guys familiar with NFA adventures in DFW? He's selling a m11/9 unfired for 5500 doesn't seem like a bad price at all for a local deal Also thanks for all the help and sorry for all the questions, just want to gain all of the knowledge I can. Never heard of them. 3 things. 1) you will be paying a Perm for a NIB gun. 2) NIB guns might not run as well as used guns at first 3) sales tax
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Posted: 11/27/2014 10:15:41 PM EDT
[#32]
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi
Thoughts? |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:39:13 PM EDT
[#33]
I bought a Sten MkII for my first mg and couldnt be happier. Parts are cheap, it eats everything i give it and it has a cool history to it as well. Other advantage is that if i get bored with it i can get it converted to a Sterling.
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Posted: 11/28/2014 1:43:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi Thoughts? I found my non-colt RR on there. It has lots of great deals on there just need to watch as they go quickly also do your research and make sure the sellers is legit. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 1:53:45 AM EDT
[#35]
No offense to the OP, but it sounds like you're kind of all over the place on what you want and are looking at. Impulsive, hasty purchases especially of this nature can be really unwise. My advice: step back and decide on what specific MG you want and then start looking and putting out feelers. Its one thing to jump on a MG when you are an experienced MG collector and know what you're getting into...its an entirely different matter when ita your first MG, you don't really know what you want and are going in blind.
Just my .02. Good luck with whatever you buy. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 12:20:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No offense to the OP, but it sounds like you're kind of all over the place on what you want and are looking at. Impulsive, hasty purchases especially of this nature can be really unwise. My advice: step back and decide on what specific MG you want and then start looking and putting out feelers. Its one thing to jump on a MG when you are an experienced MG collector and know what you're getting into...its an entirely different matter when ita your first MG, you don't really know what you want and are going in blind. Just my .02. Good luck with whatever you buy. Agreed, it is to a good idea to sit on a purchase of this size for a couple months, especially since its it exactly an item easy to return or resell until the form 4 is approved. If you have a local range that rents MG or can find someone from arfcom that will let you shoot there's its a good idea to try a few and see how they feel and which seems most fun and cost effective. For me an m16 was a no brainer but for someone else it might be authentic tommy gun stored in a gangster style violin case, or a Mac that's cost effective. |
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Posted: 11/29/2014 1:41:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any of you guys familiar with NFA adventures in DFW? He's selling a m11/9 unfired for 5500 doesn't seem like a bad price at all for a local deal Also thanks for all the help and sorry for all the questions, just want to gain all of the knowledge I can. If you mean NFA Ventures, Carey Jones, you have nothing to worry about dealing with him. |
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Posted: 11/29/2014 5:21:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed, it is to a good idea to sit on a purchase of this size for a couple months, especially since its it exactly an item easy to return or resell until the form 4 is approved. If you have a local range that rents MG or can find someone from arfcom that will let you shoot there's its a good idea to try a few and see how they feel and which seems most fun and cost effective. For me an m16 was a no brainer but for someone else it might be authentic tommy gun stored in a gangster style violin case, or a Mac that's cost effective. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No offense to the OP, but it sounds like you're kind of all over the place on what you want and are looking at. Impulsive, hasty purchases especially of this nature can be really unwise. My advice: step back and decide on what specific MG you want and then start looking and putting out feelers. Its one thing to jump on a MG when you are an experienced MG collector and know what you're getting into...its an entirely different matter when ita your first MG, you don't really know what you want and are going in blind. Just my .02. Good luck with whatever you buy. Agreed, it is to a good idea to sit on a purchase of this size for a couple months, especially since its it exactly an item easy to return or resell until the form 4 is approved. If you have a local range that rents MG or can find someone from arfcom that will let you shoot there's its a good idea to try a few and see how they feel and which seems most fun and cost effective. For me an m16 was a no brainer but for someone else it might be authentic tommy gun stored in a gangster style violin case, or a Mac that's cost effective. This Shoot EVERY! Then let it simmer for a week in your head. Then on the 8th day when you wake up with a boner you will know what gun you want b/c you were dreaming of it.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 12:55:38 AM EDT
[#39]
davidspiwak.com has several uzi's to choose from. I bought mine from him a couple of years ago. Excellent service. I later bought a 22 conversion and suppressor from him. Top notch dealer.
 Well worth it to buy from a reputable dealer than to worry for 9 months about possibly being scammed.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 2:23:12 AM EDT
[#40]
M11/9 with all the Lage stuff. Great platform. Im seriously thinking of getting another
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Posted: 12/3/2014 7:27:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M11/9 with all the Lage stuff. Great platform. Im seriously thinking of getting another Me too  I have the upper that takes Suomi drums. Now i want the upper that takes stock mags. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:37:20 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm in almost the reverse pattern. I have a RR M16 and an UZI, thinking about getting an M11/9[%|
 (again).
Get down with the sickness!
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:40:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm in almost the reverse pattern. I have a RR M16 and an UZI, thinking about getting an M11/9[%| (again).
Get down with the sickness! Ditto. Except that while I miss my M11/9, I'm thinking instead about getting a 1919. Somehow, my Shrike doesn't fulfill my belt-fed needs. 
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Posted: 12/3/2014 9:46:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Yes, a 1919 is still somewhat "affordable" and I've toyed with that idea too!!!
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Posted: 12/3/2014 10:29:27 PM EDT
[#45]
did someone 1919?
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Posted: 12/3/2014 11:27:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
did someone 1919?
<a href="http://s893.photobucket.com/user/chas8008/media/1919_zpsc336a33f.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac133/chas8008/1919_zpsc336a33f.jpg</a> Where do you shoot yours? i would love a m1919 but do all my shooting at a indoor range :-/ |
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Posted: 12/4/2014 1:01:55 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do you shoot yours? i would love a m1919 but do all my shooting at a indoor range :-/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
did someone 1919?
<a href="http://s893.photobucket.com/user/chas8008/media/1919_zpsc336a33f.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac133/chas8008/1919_zpsc336a33f.jpg</a> Where do you shoot yours? i would love a m1919 but do all my shooting at a indoor range :-/ One time I shot my M60E6 at an indoor range. Everyone literally stopped and just watched lol. It was retarded, but fun. |
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Posted: 12/4/2014 1:21:00 AM EDT
[#48]
OP:
M11/9 is the low price option and, thanks to Richard Lage, one of the best performers out there...but you'll get ahead of it. M10/45's SCREAM with the right upper (USMG sidecocker), some tuning (surface finishing for smooth function and run em wet) and a Gemtech Viper. You'll have a very controllable bullet hose, with the right stock, and mags are, once again, readily available. That's the thing: Mags. Some SMG's have a 'mag' issue: Availability of reliable and affordable mags. Unless you want to spend most of your time at the range loading, you're gonna need a metric ton of mags. I have 50+ for every SMG in the arsenal. Excessive? Maybe, but you'll see. Uzi's don't have the mag supply/price issue (if you're willing to clean up the surplus ones out there). And the right Uzi can be tuned with buffer blocks and a Ti bolt (expensive but crazy fast) and put that grin on your face while being very controllable. M16's are, well M16's: It's what you really want. Admit it. But they aren't cheap. A1's and A2's and Groupie SS's are all I'd buy but you could have fun with a 'lesser' shooter no matter what us 16 snobs will tell you. And the Groupies usually need a lot of truing up to be the uber-16 their indestructible steel construction promises. I've got two of them and they rock. ARES belt fed uppers are work (linkin than collecting links...magnets are a must) but LMG uppers have much heavier barrels and tear it up with Beta Mags and a spade grip from KNS... Haven't even touched on the HK's...they've gotten so expensive I don't want to shoot 'em. You get into this know you're gonna spend the Ferrari money on fun switches. I did. There's almost no goin back... |
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Posted: 12/4/2014 1:22:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Save up..M60E4...or an MG42 yes...mwwaahahahahaha
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Posted: 12/4/2014 1:23:48 AM EDT
[#50]
M240
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