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Posted: 10/9/2014 1:48:19 AM EDT
10/9 Update - The price was just changed to $17,500 for me.
I have first dibs on this all original, and all matching 1943 MP40, and I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger, but I'm just not sure what to look for. Any help from the experts is appreciated. Here is what is included with it -6 1943 mags -2 1943 mag pouches -Correct Nazi loader -Slightly comical letter about how the soldier got it, brought it back, and gave it to his toddler son (good old days). He sounds like he was a great and funny man. Sadly he passed away a while back. I like history, hence why I buy C&R guns, and not rewats or tube guns, and the letter is neat, and magazines all dated 1943, but really my main thing of interest is the gun PERIOD. Couple things I have noticed, questions for you experts, and things to look at. -That spot near the magazine button. Is that a repair? Bad / good? -That spot under and in front of the mag well. Is that a normal dent? What could it be? Problem? -To bring it home, he had to tap a bolt into the end of the barrel. He then had a great gunsmith remove the 1/2" of threads from inside the barrel, and re crowned it about 1/2" back into the barrel. Shoots perfect, and has a very low round count. Big problem? Common? Who cares since it is a low count matching barrel? That's really it. Thanks for your help guys. I really do appreciate it! I'm pretty much ready to buy this gun, but just want to see what you experts think, and if it's a bad buy, good buy, or GREAT buy! Thank you! 
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Posted: 10/9/2014 8:29:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Nice gun, but the price is way high. Ruben Mendiola has two C&R MP40s on the Subguns NFA ad board right now for $17k and he's always at the very top of the market on his prices. Not slamming him- he sells good stuff and has an absolute sterling reputation, but if he thinks they're worth 17, then that's what the market price is and just from a quick examination of his pictures, his guns don't appear to have the flaws you note in your post on the gun you are looking at.
YMMV |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 9:44:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice gun, but the price is way high. Ruben Mendiola has two C&R MP40s on the Subguns NFA ad board right now for $17k and he's always at the very top of the market on his prices. Not slamming him- he sells good stuff and has an absolute sterling reputation, but if he thinks they're worth 17, then that's what the market price is and just from a quick examination of his pictures, his guns don't appear to have the flaws you note in your post on the gun you are looking at. YMMV Thanks. Problem is that Rubens guns are non matching, and he believes refinished. That changes a lot. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 9:54:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Over priced IMO, probably can get it for $12-15k depending on matching parts, condition, accessories etc... I would try and talk the guy down a couple thousand dollars, if you are buying in person from a friend or someone you know remind them you are saving them time and hassle of having to selling it online, plus the savings of the 10% or w/e the fee the middle man seller would take.
Here is the current market price http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_5.html |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 12:00:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Over priced IMO, probably can get it for $12-15k depending on matching parts, condition, accessories etc... I would try and talk the guy down a couple thousand dollars, if you are buying in person from a friend or someone you know remind them you are saving them time and hassle of having to selling it online, plus the savings of the 10% or w/e the fee the middle man seller would take. Here is the current market price http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_5.html Spartikis, the chart you reference is for tube guns -- MP40s which came in as parts kits and were built up on tubes of varying quality, and registered here. The chart for MP40 C&R guns is here: http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_6.html It lists the average at $17k or so. But most C&R MGs available today are either refinished or SN mixmasters -- an original finish, matching-number C&R MG commands a premium. In addition, MP40s have been very popular with reenactors, who bought 'em cheap decades ago blanked them, beat the living crap out of them and often refinished them regularly. This one apparently escaped that fate, and that makes it more rare and valuable. (Reminds me of when folks were buying NIB M16A2s back around Y2K for $5k, then cerecoting them black to match their new accessories. Sigh.) The flaws do not look serious to me. The gun is 71 years old, been through a war, then dragged to another continent in a duffle bag. I hope I look that good when I hit 71 ... 
Does it have the original capture papers with it? If not, are you buying from the estate of the GI? An FOIA request would be fascinating. I know, buy the gun, not the story ... but in my experience, while the market may not add much value to such documentation, individual collectors do love it. So $19k may be top price ... but it's a great example, judging from the pix and info you give. You can't pay too much for a machine gun; you can only pay it too soon. Your Mileage May Vary. 
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Posted: 10/9/2014 12:01:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 10/9/2014 3:49:54 PM EDT
[#6]
We just spoke, and he decided $17,500 would be good. Looks like I'm buying it :)
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spartikis, the chart you reference is for tube guns -- MP40s which came in as parts kits and were built up on tubes of varying quality, and registered here. The chart for MP40 C&R guns is here: http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_6.html It lists the average at $17k or so. But most C&R MGs available today are either refinished or SN mixmasters -- an original finish, matching-number C&R MG commands a premium. In addition, MP40s have been very popular with reenactors, who bought 'em cheap decades ago blanked them, beat the living crap out of them and often refinished them regularly. This one apparently escaped that fate, and that makes it more rare and valuable. (Reminds me of when folks were buying NIB M16A2s back around Y2K for $5k, then cerecoting them black to match their new accessories. Sigh.) The flaws do not look serious to me. The gun is 71 years old, been through a war, then dragged to another continent in a duffle bag. I hope I look that good when I hit 71 ...
Does it have the original capture papers with it? If not, are you buying from the estate of the GI? An FOIA request would be fascinating. I know, buy the gun, not the story ... but in my experience, while the market may not add much value to such documentation, individual collectors do love it. So $19k may be top price ... but it's a great example, judging from the pix and info you give. You can't pay too much for a machine gun; you can only pay it too soon. Your Mileage May Vary.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Over priced IMO, probably can get it for $12-15k depending on matching parts, condition, accessories etc... I would try and talk the guy down a couple thousand dollars, if you are buying in person from a friend or someone you know remind them you are saving them time and hassle of having to selling it online, plus the savings of the 10% or w/e the fee the middle man seller would take. Here is the current market price http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_5.html Spartikis, the chart you reference is for tube guns -- MP40s which came in as parts kits and were built up on tubes of varying quality, and registered here. The chart for MP40 C&R guns is here: http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_6.html It lists the average at $17k or so. But most C&R MGs available today are either refinished or SN mixmasters -- an original finish, matching-number C&R MG commands a premium. In addition, MP40s have been very popular with reenactors, who bought 'em cheap decades ago blanked them, beat the living crap out of them and often refinished them regularly. This one apparently escaped that fate, and that makes it more rare and valuable. (Reminds me of when folks were buying NIB M16A2s back around Y2K for $5k, then cerecoting them black to match their new accessories. Sigh.) The flaws do not look serious to me. The gun is 71 years old, been through a war, then dragged to another continent in a duffle bag. I hope I look that good when I hit 71 ...
Does it have the original capture papers with it? If not, are you buying from the estate of the GI? An FOIA request would be fascinating. I know, buy the gun, not the story ... but in my experience, while the market may not add much value to such documentation, individual collectors do love it. So $19k may be top price ... but it's a great example, judging from the pix and info you give. You can't pay too much for a machine gun; you can only pay it too soon. Your Mileage May Vary.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 4:06:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Congrats! If/when I get up to Texas, I'll be begging to dump a mag or two through it ...
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Posted: 10/9/2014 6:01:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Congrats! If/when I get up to Texas, I'll be begging to dump a mag or two through it ... Gladly. I'm an SOT now, so I should get it pretty quick too :) |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 9:56:46 PM EDT
[#9]
That's a very nice gun and a good price is one you can both live with.
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Posted: 10/10/2014 3:43:19 AM EDT
[#10]
It looks like there is a hole drilled thru the receiver......below the ejection port, and in the same location on the (L) side......that shouldn't be there.....
the "dents" you refer to are where the tube was crimped over the trunion......100% proper |
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Posted: 10/10/2014 7:57:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We just spoke, and he decided $17,500 would be good. Looks like I'm buying it :) Quote HistoryQuoted:
We just spoke, and he decided $17,500 would be good. Looks like I'm buying it :) Quoted:
Quoted:
Over priced IMO, probably can get it for $12-15k depending on matching parts, condition, accessories etc... I would try and talk the guy down a couple thousand dollars, if you are buying in person from a friend or someone you know remind them you are saving them time and hassle of having to selling it online, plus the savings of the 10% or w/e the fee the middle man seller would take. Here is the current market price http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_5.html Spartikis, the chart you reference is for tube guns -- MP40s which came in as parts kits and were built up on tubes of varying quality, and registered here. The chart for MP40 C&R guns is here: http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/german_subguns_6.html It lists the average at $17k or so. But most C&R MGs available today are either refinished or SN mixmasters -- an original finish, matching-number C&R MG commands a premium. In addition, MP40s have been very popular with reenactors, who bought 'em cheap decades ago blanked them, beat the living crap out of them and often refinished them regularly. This one apparently escaped that fate, and that makes it more rare and valuable. (Reminds me of when folks were buying NIB M16A2s back around Y2K for $5k, then cerecoting them black to match their new accessories. Sigh.) The flaws do not look serious to me. The gun is 71 years old, been through a war, then dragged to another continent in a duffle bag. I hope I look that good when I hit 71 ...
Does it have the original capture papers with it? If not, are you buying from the estate of the GI? An FOIA request would be fascinating. I know, buy the gun, not the story ... but in my experience, while the market may not add much value to such documentation, individual collectors do love it. So $19k may be top price ... but it's a great example, judging from the pix and info you give. You can't pay too much for a machine gun; you can only pay it too soon. Your Mileage May Vary.
My mistake, I'm not familiar with the variations of German sub guns. Congrats on the purchase! Looks like it would be a fun gun
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Posted: 10/10/2014 8:57:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Nice. $17,500 is a good price for that gun.
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Posted: 10/10/2014 4:22:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It looks like there is a hole drilled thru the receiver......below the ejection port, and in the same location on the (L) side......that shouldn't be there..... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/011_zps68450157.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/007_zps6ae6d2ae.jpg the "dents" you refer to are where the tube was crimped over the trunion......100% proper What could that be from you think? |
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Posted: 10/10/2014 5:34:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What could that be from you think? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It looks like there is a hole drilled thru the receiver......below the ejection port, and in the same location on the (L) side......that shouldn't be there..... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/011_zps68450157.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/007_zps6ae6d2ae.jpg the "dents" you refer to are where the tube was crimped over the trunion......100% proper What could that be from you think? The "demilling" to bring it home may, in addition to the muzzle bolt, have included cross-pinning the MP40's bolt as well. There were no demil standards at the time, so the officers signing the trophy papers could make up their own rules. 
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Posted: 11/4/2014 11:57:23 PM EDT
[#15]
I passed on this gun after all, so if anyone is interested, it is on gunbroker now.
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