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Posted: 1/15/2017 3:16:46 PM EDT
Are there any places online that sell 40mm less lethal or smoke to individual officers with just a copy of department ID?
Link Posted: 1/16/2017 10:55:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Are there any places online that sell 40mm less lethal or smoke to individual officers with just a copy of department ID?
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No.  If you find one though, please let me know.  I had a conversation with a sales manager for CTS last week, and ATF has decided they can't sell or ship 40mm munitions to anyone but agencies on a letterhead, or federal explosives license holders with a magazine.  

Because the propellent in them is not exempt from explosives regulations since they are not .50cal or below (ATF version of "Small arms ammunition").
Link Posted: 1/16/2017 11:02:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Will this affect the sale of practice chalk rounds in the future as well?
Link Posted: 1/16/2017 12:21:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Will this affect the sale of practice chalk rounds in the future as well?
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Who knows.  It appears ATF never published a ruling on this, at least that I could find.  They are maintaining that this has always been the rule, but that it was previously poorly enforced.  Effectively doing what the MA Attorney General is doing with "assault weapons".

It seems there has been inconsistency with enforcement from field office to field office.  I had ATF enforcement guys in one state tell me you need an FEL and magazine for M781, while Grog in another state had them tell him you don't.  

The headquarters stance is that if it has propellent in it, and is not for a specifically exempted shotgun shell or a rifle cartridge .50cal or below, it is a regulated explosive.  Apparently, even possessing black powder for use other than specifically antique cannons/mortars or muzzleloaders requires a federal explosives license (perhaps, say...as in the case that you wanted to make your own fireworks).

They are out of control and out of their minds.
Link Posted: 1/16/2017 12:56:22 PM EDT
[#4]
I just called a place here in PA about getting cs and oc grenades and they have to be bought through the agency. So it's not just the propellant the atf is regulating.
I used to be able to purchase them a few years ago with just my ID. I wasn't aware the "they" were changing any regulations or I would of kept a few.
Link Posted: 1/16/2017 1:27:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just called a place here in PA about getting cs and oc grenades and they have to be bought through the agency. So it's not just the propellant the atf is regulating.
I used to be able to purchase them a few years ago with just my ID. I wasn't aware the "they" were changing any regulations or I would of kept a few.
View Quote


Oh no...with the CS and OC grenades, they say the fuze is a regulated explosive because it contains a small amount of (depending on the fuze) black or smokeless powder that is not in small arms ammunition.

May I take this moment to suggest you all support my bill on lawful commerce in ammunition?  Many seemingly fail to realize the dangers of this slow creep in re:to ATF moving the goal posts repeatedly.
Link Posted: 1/16/2017 3:02:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Bummer.  You guys just rolling your own ammo with stuff from reloadableshells.com then?  I really want a 203 but it's hard to justify if I can't get anything useful for it.

Any forums out there that have 40mm reloading recipes?  Not having much luck with google.  Too much airsoft and video game stuff popping up.
Link Posted: 1/16/2017 3:04:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Oh no...with the CS and OC grenades, they say the fuze is a regulated explosive because it contains a small amount of (depending on the fuze) black or smokeless powder that is not in small arms ammunition.

May I take this moment to suggest you all support my bill on lawful commerce in ammunition?  Many seemingly fail to realize the dangers of this slow creep in re:to ATF moving the goal posts repeatedly.
View Quote


How would we go about supporting your bill?  Got a link?
Link Posted: 1/18/2017 4:12:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Bummer.  You guys just rolling your own ammo with stuff from reloadableshells.com then?  I really want a 203 but it's hard to justify if I can't get anything useful for it.

Any forums out there that have 40mm reloading recipes?  Not having much luck with google.  Too much airsoft and video game stuff popping up.
View Quote


That's the plan. Reloadablshells is the only way to go. Grog has reloading guides he sells...that'd prolly be the best place to start. I haven't got mine yet, but I'll be ordering soon...
Link Posted: 1/21/2017 8:20:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Oh no...with the CS and OC grenades, they say the fuze is a regulated explosive because it contains a small amount of (depending on the fuze) black or smokeless powder that is not in small arms ammunition.

May I take this moment to suggest you all support my bill on lawful commerce in ammunition?  Many seemingly fail to realize the dangers of this slow creep in re:to ATF moving the goal posts repeatedly.
View Quote


I was told (again hearsay from one ATF explosives guy) that the M201 series fuzes are regulated as they have been recovered from improvised grenades in Mexico and the USA.

I hope the new President helps the BATFE get their ducks in a row and stand-down from all these interpretive shenanigans.

~Will
Link Posted: 2/17/2017 1:19:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Oh no...with the CS and OC grenades, they say the fuze is a regulated explosive because it contains a small amount of (depending on the fuze) black or smokeless powder that is not in small arms ammunition.

May I take this moment to suggest you all support my bill on lawful commerce in ammunition?  Many seemingly fail to realize the dangers of this slow creep in re:to ATF moving the goal posts repeatedly.
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just called a place here in PA about getting cs and oc grenades and they have to be bought through the agency. So it's not just the propellant the atf is regulating.
I used to be able to purchase them a few years ago with just my ID. I wasn't aware the "they" were changing any regulations or I would of kept a few.


Oh no...with the CS and OC grenades, they say the fuze is a regulated explosive because it contains a small amount of (depending on the fuze) black or smokeless powder that is not in small arms ammunition.

May I take this moment to suggest you all support my bill on lawful commerce in ammunition?  Many seemingly fail to realize the dangers of this slow creep in re:to ATF moving the goal posts repeatedly.


IIRC (And this is anecdotal) ATF basically told the retailers that while the Fuzes werent Statutorily Regulated, if they didnt police themselves and stop selling to anyone other than Agency Purchases, then the Fuzes WOULD be officially designated DD's in and of themselves.  I was looking to pick up some new production Smokes with the round rubber Body..probably at least ten years ago, and that's wat I was told when i called to get a Fax number to give them my ID.
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