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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:38:14 PM EDT
I was referenced to this newsletter when asking about M-18's being classified as Explosive Devices.

JUNE 2013 ATF EXPLOSIVE INDUSTRY NEWSLETTER

I know there are several opinions, but, this is a cite able REFERENCE.

Has there been anything SINCE that has clarified the issue of SMOKE GRENADES ?

I see alot of smokes for sale, but reading the newsletter kinda says they should be handled otherwise!

~Will

Excerpt:

Smoke Producing Devices

ATF has recently been asked if smoke producing
devices are regulated under 18 U.S.C. Chapter
40 and 27 CFR, Part 555.

Smoke producing
devices can be divided into two categories: smoke bombs
and smoke grenades (canisters). These devices consist of
a fuse/fuze and a smoke composition.

Smoke bombs generally come in two forms, a smoke
ball or a smoke candle. A smoke ball is a hollow, cherrysized
sphere of brightly colored clay or cardboard filled
with a smoke-generating composition that produces
a forceful jet of colored smoke for several seconds. A
smoke candle (also called a smoke generator or smoke
canister) is a cylindrical cardboard tube, usually 1.5"
in diameter and several inches long and resembling a
large firecracker, with a fuse.

Such a device creates a
thick cloud of smoke for up to several minutes. Uses
include providing smoke for sewer inflow leak detection,
fire-fighter training, special effects, HVAC testing, truck
and trailer leak detection, smoke-screens for paintball
games, and a variety of other air flow visualization and
leak detection applications. Smoke bombs are typically
initiated with an external fuse.

Generally speaking, smoke bombs do not meet the exemption under 27 CFR
555.141(a)(7) because they do not meet the appropriate
U.S. Department of Transportation UN classification,
or because of their intended use. A determination would
be required to establish if a specific smoke producing
device meets the exemption.

Smoke grenades (canisters) are devices that release
smoke when a pin is pulled. They are used by military
personnel for signaling or as a screening device for troop
movements as well as for law enforcement operations.
Smoke grenades generally emit a far larger amount
of smoke than smoke bombs. Also, smoke grenades
typically contain a fuze, which is not to be confused with
the fuse used in smoke bombs.

Both fuses and fuzes contain a low explosive, such
as black powder, smokeless powder, or pyrotechnic
composition. When installed, fuses are generally visible
from the exterior of the device, while fuzes are contained
within the device and often cannot be seen.

Fuses are initiated by the direct application of flame or electricity,
while fuzes are initiated through an external action or
stimulus, such as direct impact, friction, or complex
mechanical (and sometimes electronic) processes.

Fuses are often used within the fireworks industry, while fuzes
are used in devices such as large explosive ammunition
or grenades.

Additionally, a smoke composition is designed primarily
to generate smoke. The composition is often based on
an oxidizer (e.g. potassium chlorate, potassium nitrate,
or potassium perchlorate), a fuel (e.g. lactose or sugar),
an optional coolant (e.g. sodium bicarbonate), and one
or more dyes. Some smoke compositions are considered
pyrotechnic compositions. Requests for classification
determinations should be directed to the Explosives
Industry Programs Branch.

Please be aware that any smoke producing device that
contains explosive materials is a regulated item subject
to the laws at 18 U.S.C. Chapter 40 and regulations at
27 CFR, Part 555.

Certain explosive devices, such as
devices for signaling in emergency or distress situations,
may be exempted per 27 CFR 555.32 as Special Explosive
Devices.

Requests to exempt a specific product or device from the Federal explosives regulations contained
at 27 CFR, Part 555, should be accompanied by a full
description of the product or device and its intended use.
Information should include the types and amounts
(net explosive weights) of explosives contained in
the completed device; photographs, diagrams and/or
schematics of the completed device; material safety
data sheets, and the Department of Transportation
classification.

View Quote
Link Posted: 8/17/2016 7:50:12 PM EDT
[#1]
What a crappy ruling
M18s openly sold on gunbroker, albeit at stupid prices
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 8:24:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Well it's certainly not a DD so it doesn't need registered as a NFA item.

As far as it being and explosive device I don't see in the letter which says that smoke grenades are illegal. Also this letter seems to be more directed at industry and the Manufacturer's or the smoke grenades. Like your other posts this is another example of the ATF over stepping their bounds while they can't make smoke grenandes illegal they're doing everything they can to make it sound like they are and to scare people from buying/building them.
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 8:56:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What a crappy ruling
M18s openly sold on gunbroker, albeit at stupid prices
View Quote



Yeah.  Well if it makes you feel any better the military pays about $45 per smoke grenade.

WiLL
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 7:30:15 PM EDT
[#4]
Hi buddy.


I haven't seen anything. Nor have I heard any new case law on the subject.
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 10:55:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hi buddy.


I haven't seen anything. Nor have I heard any new case law on the subject.
View Quote


Hey Bro!

I have heard of the M201a1 fuze being seized...  Not to me, but seized by an ATF friend.

WiLL
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 11:24:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Hey Bro!

I have heard of the M201a1 fuze being seized...  Not to me, but seized by an ATF friend.

WiLL
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hi buddy.


I haven't seen anything. Nor have I heard any new case law on the subject.


Hey Bro!

I have heard of the M201a1 fuze being seized...  Not to me, but seized by an ATF friend.

WiLL


If your ATF thug friend is seizing them, then you've already found the answer to your own question, they must be explosive devices. Or it could be just another case of an ATF thug using intimidation to take others property, without any basis of law to justify it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 7:47:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If your ATF thug friend is seizing them, then you've already found the answer to your own question, they must be explosive devices. Or it could be just another case of an ATF thug using intimidation to take others property, without any basis of law to justify it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hi buddy.


I haven't seen anything. Nor have I heard any new case law on the subject.


Hey Bro!

I have heard of the M201a1 fuze being seized...  Not to me, but seized by an ATF friend.

WiLL


If your ATF thug friend is seizing them, then you've already found the answer to your own question, they must be explosive devices. Or it could be just another case of an ATF thug using intimidation to take others property, without any basis of law to justify it.



There are plenty of OTHER manners in which property can be "seized".

For instance STOLEN MILITARY PROPERTY.  

Another is ACTUALLY USING THE M201a1 FUZE SYSTEM IN AN IED (home made grenade, well, attempt...)

They were seized from the decedents 'estate' along with other items that had been 'modified' & posed a hazard to the public.

Awesome for you to jump on my friend with a 'thug' label 'cause he WORKS for the ATF.

I understand your frustration though, I don't care for the ATF as a GOV entity, and some of their folks are CLUELESS when it comes to Firearms & Explosives.

Anywho, the thread is about EDUCATION and LEARNING - has anyone heard of ANY other examples of the above newsletter or other interpretations?



Will
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 2:19:13 PM EDT
[#8]
I agree Will.
I was one of those who had M201a1's seized and OOW made it right.
For whatever reason they got out improperly and shouldn't have been sold.
I enjoy cool stuff as much as the next guy but NONE of my toys are worth throwing a fit over if it's not 100% correct.
I too know some ATF people and they have been stand up guys to me.
YMMV
Link Posted: 8/31/2016 1:26:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Latest ATF Explosive newsletter released:



BATFE Annual Explosive List

2015 Annual List of Explosive Materials

Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 841(d) and 27 CFR §
555.23, the Department of Justice must publish
and revise at least annually in the Federal Register
a list of explosives determined to be within the coverage
of 18 U.S.C. § 841 et seq.

ATF updated the list of explosives in 2013 when it added
the term, ‘‘Black powder substitutes’’. The addition of
this term expanded the list to include any materials not
already covered under their chemical, mixture or common
names, but placed this common general term on the list to
clarify that these materials are explosives.

In 2014, ATF added the term, ‘‘Pyrotechnic fuses’’ to
clarify that ‘‘pyrotechnic fuses’’ (e.g., black match,
ignition fuse, quick match) that are not otherwise exempt
as a component of ammunition or as black powder
articles intended for the sporting, recreational, or cultural
purposes in antique firearms or devices, are regulated
explosive materials regardless of their size or specific
energetic composition. The addition of this term did
not expand the list to include any materials not already
covered under other names. ATF generally classifies
pyrotechnic fuse as low explosives subject to the Federal
explosives laws and implementing explosives regulations
at 27 CFR Part 555—Commerce in Explosives and the
U.S. Department of Transportation classifies them as
Class 1 explosives.

ATF has made no changes to the list of explosive
materials in 2015. The list includes all mixtures
containing any of the materials on the list. Materials
constituting blasting agents are marked by an asterisk.
While the list is comprehensive, it is not all-inclusive.
The fact that an explosive material is not on the list
does not mean that it is not within the coverage of the
law if it otherwise meets the statutory definitions in 18
U.S.C. § 841. Explosive materials are listed alphabetically
by their common names followed, where applicable,
by chemical names and synonyms in brackets.

[List Truncated - go to link above for alphabetical listing]
View Quote
Link Posted: 9/15/2016 12:24:53 PM EDT
[#10]
OK, I'm having a hard time understanding this... I have read through the post. But still do not see anything definitive as of yet unless I missed it...



I did see on that last report where it stated potassium mixtures. Is that the answer, meaning no?
Link Posted: 9/17/2016 7:59:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Bolded, and redded:


Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 841(d) and 27 CFR §
555.23, the Department of Justice must publish
and revise at least annually in the Federal Register
a list of explosives determined to be within the coverage
of 18 U.S.C. § 841 et seq.

ATF updated the list of explosives in 2013 when it added
the term, ‘‘Black powder substitutes’’. The addition of
this term expanded the list to include any materials not
already covered under their chemical, mixture or common
names, but placed this common general term on the list to
clarify that these materials are explosives.

In 2014, ATF added the term, ‘‘Pyrotechnic fuses’’ to
clarify that ‘‘pyrotechnic fuses’’ (e.g., black match,
ignition fuse, quick match) that are not otherwise exempt
as a component of ammunition or as black powder
articles intended for the sporting, recreational, or cultural
purposes in antique firearms or devices, are regulated
explosive materials regardless of their size or specific
energetic composition
. The addition of this term did
not expand the list to include any materials not already
covered under other names. ATF generally classifies
pyrotechnic fuse as low explosives subject to the Federal
explosives laws and implementing explosives regulations
at 27 CFR Part 555—Commerce in Explosives and the
U.S. Department of Transportation classifies them as
Class 1 explosives.

ATF has made no changes to the list of explosive
materials in 2015. The list includes all mixtures
containing any of the materials on the list. Materials
constituting blasting agents are marked by an asterisk.
While the list is comprehensive, it is not all-inclusive.
The fact that an explosive material is not on the list
does not mean that it is not within the coverage of the
law if it otherwise meets the statutory definitions in 18
U.S.C. § 841. Explosive materials are listed alphabetically
by their common names followed, where applicable,
by chemical names and synonyms in brackets.



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