1/4 ounce rule: - AR15.COM

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Posted: 9/14/2014 10:10:42 PM EDT

Help me out guys. I'm looking for a specific ATF ruling or letter to reference that the 1/4 ounce burst charge includes the booster propellant. Thanks!

Posted: 9/15/2014 9:18:23 PM EDT

[#1]

My understanding is that there is no interpretation in writing on this. I think that everyone includes the propellant to be on the safe side.

I could be wrong, however.

Posted: 9/16/2014 7:33:17 PM EDT

[#2]

From The "Federal Firearm Regulations Reference Guide"
Page 5, 921-1
(4) The term "destructive device"
means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or
poison gas—
(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile(Projectile) having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

The way I see it, IANAL, They are on 2 separate lines so they are separate. The ATF also defines Missile as Projectile. I have been looking into this recently as well.

MAHA

Posted: 9/17/2014 9:05:45 PM EDT

[#3]

Maha:

I'm read it as such as well, implying two different criteria that is independent of each other. What does arfcom say? Does this warrant a letter to the ATF asking for clarification?

Posted: 9/17/2014 10:22:52 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Maha:
I'm read it as such as well, implying two different criteria that is independent of each other. What does arfcom say? Does this warrant a letter to the ATF asking for clarification?

View Quote

Most see it as all inclusive. A lot are not willing to talk about it openly for what ever reason.

I have thought about writing and asking about it, but I dont want to be "That Guy" that writes a letter and screws everyone. I doubt anything negative will come from it but you never know with the ATF.

MAHA

Posted: 9/18/2014 1:25:16 PM EDT

[#5]

I am wondering if they are pushing the 1/4 oz rule for safety reason. A 1/4 oz of powder is quite a bit. If you have a failure it could be very dangerous.

I have also seen where bird bombs are illegal. Any truth to this?

Posted: 9/18/2014 4:06:05 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am wondering if they are pushing the 1/4 oz rule for safety reason. A 1/4 oz of powder is quite a bit. If you have a failure it could be very dangerous.

I have also seen where bird bombs are illegal. Any truth to this?

View Quote

It is a lot of powder, and think of what you could do if the limit was higher. A 60mm Mortar goes for over a mile.

IIRC Bird bombs are considered Anti Personel, so they must be fired out of a Registered DD. Some states my have a ban on them but federally I have not seen anything.

MAHA

Posted: 9/19/2014 4:32:01 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

Most see it as all inclusive. A lot are not willing to talk about it openly for what ever reason.

I have thought about writing and asking about it, but I dont want to be "That Guy" that writes a letter and screws everyone. I doubt anything negative will come from it but you never know with the ATF.

MAHA

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Maha:
I'm read it as such as well, implying two different criteria that is independent of each other. What does arfcom say? Does this warrant a letter to the ATF asking for clarification?

Most see it as all inclusive. A lot are not willing to talk about it openly for what ever reason.

I have thought about writing and asking about it, but I dont want to be "That Guy" that writes a letter and screws everyone. I doubt anything negative will come from it but you never know with the ATF.

MAHA

I've thought about writing the same letter. IMO these situations call for some sort of official statement. Better to figure out black and white definitions then to operate in the grey. A lot of people already assumes 1/4 includes lift charge. ATF either confirming or denying this would do no one any harm.

Posted: 9/19/2014 9:04:08 PM EDT

[#8]

1/4 ounce is about 110 grains. If the propellent charge was included in the net explosive weight, most rifle cartridges would be DDs. Everything you need is in the regulation, writing a letter is unnecessary and probably lead to more confusion.

Posted: 9/19/2014 10:48:12 PM EDT

[#9]

I'm leaning towards warhead only...
(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.
Missiles, I mean real missiles, have propellant and a warhead. There were solid-fuel and early liquid-fuel rockets in 1934. Solid-fuel rockets already had a history as military weapons.

Posted: 9/20/2014 1:45:04 AM EDT

[#10]

Where I come from, rocket means a rocket motor with an explodey thing on the front. A missile is a rocket with a guidance system stuffed in it somewhere. I don't think this is what they mean.

I believe in this usage, 'missile' means 'thing that flies through the air however it may have gotten there', and would include what I would call a 'projectile'. They address propellant charges specifically and separately.

Posted: 11/7/2014 5:37:52 PM EDT

[#11]

IIRC Bird bombs are considered Anti Personel, so they must be fired out of a Registered DD

View Quote

Last time I checked, they were simply restricted thanks to the CPSC. To purchase, you hafta have an agriculture or aviation issue, sign a form, and something else I forget.

Posted: 11/7/2014 5:46:19 PM EDT

[#12]

I was wrong.

http://www.suttonag.com/epcd_license_help.html

In order to possess a firecracker in a shotgun shell made by someone else, you gotta have the same license a blaster needs....

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