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 m1garand__man 
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Joined: Apr 2007  MT, USA
 Posts: 1547 Feedback: 100% (4) |
Posted: 2/28/2012 8:59:15 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 2:59:45 AM
[Last Edit: 4/9/2012 3:47:13 PM by akuser-47]
I don;t believe that gas in a glass jar or bottle would be atf issue. I mean we are driving around every day in a giant car bomb if that is the case if you fill a gas can and have a rag for a cap cause you lost the cap then it would be a destructive device. They would have to have an initial threat in place with proof and then the evidence would maybe hold up in court. I think it would be near impossible to declare that as D.D. with all the containers people use it is a dot law last I checked that gas can only be transported and stored in a red canister made for it. So they could still charge you if you have them stored in this manor. Unless laws are changing again as they always do be carefull and don' t do anything illegal ever
 
I guess from comments below my post here I am in the wrong and there is no law regulating what can contain gasoline. Be careful no matter what you carry it in. |
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Homeinvader
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Joined: Jul 2003 USA
Posts: 2901 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post |
Posted: 2/29/2012 3:49:47 PM
[Last Edit: 2/29/2012 4:42:01 PM by Homeinvader]
A true molotov cocktail is not an explosive, it's an infernal device much like a flamethrower. No regulation, but use one in the commission of a crime it would become a weapon.
ETA: just looked it up and I am wrong. A Molotov cocktail is interpreted to be a weapon itself, therefore a DD. Very interesting.... |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 4:15:39 PM
I had the exact same thought when I watched that.
The ATF seems to make a rather clear statement concerning this. I'm willing to bet we haven't heard the end of this... who knows, maybe NatGeo is trying to drum up more viewers by making a national legal case out of one of their episodes... |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 4:20:14 PM
Originally Posted By akuser-47:
I don;t believe that gas in a glass jar or bottle would be atf issue. I mean we are driving around every day in a giant car bomb if that is the case if you fill a gas can and have a rag for a cap cause you lost the cap then it would be a destructive device. They would have to have an initial threat in place with proof and then the evidence would maybe hold up in court. I think it would be near impossible to declare that as D.D. with all the containers people use it is a dot law last I checked that gas can only be transported and stored in a red canister made for it. So they could still charge you if you have them stored in this manor. Unless laws are changing again as they always do be carefull and don' t do anything illegal ever They can charge you for having a machine gun if you own a LL or DIAS and an AR... Basic point is, the ATF has a lot of leeway for some reason when it comes to laws. I wouldn't want to leave it up to chance on whether they will send me to Federal prison over such matters. At a minimum, the trial and subsequent lawyer fees will be a big enough pain. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 6:27:55 PM
Sad that these things of such importance are so open to be interpeted as they see fit.
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jestertoo
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Joined: Sep 2006 TX, USA
Posts: 3769 Feedback: 100% (102) Link To This Post |
Posted: 2/29/2012 6:55:28 PM
Wow.. Flame throwers, legal and unregulated.. Gas in a bottle with a rag, regulated.
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Posted: 2/29/2012 10:43:52 PM
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
Wow.. Flame throwers, legal and unregulated.. Gas in a bottle with a rag, regulated. Just think if flame throwers were controlled as a DD. If you happened to have a lighter in your pocket while holding some engine starting fluid, you could be charged with constructive intent. Hell, they could even start locking up circus fire breathers for being human flame throwers. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 10:48:40 PM
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
Wow.. Flame throwers, legal and unregulated.. Gas in a bottle with a rag, regulated. Just think if flame throwers were controlled as a DD. If you happened to have a lighter in your pocket while holding some engine starting fluid, you could be charged with constructive intent. Hell, they could even start locking up circus fire breathers for being human flame throwers. http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/sons-of-guns-flame-cannon-unleashed.html |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 10:52:17 PM
I exclaimed the same sentiment to my wife when I saw it. It's the rampant stupidity that keeps me coming back.
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niteghost
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Posted: 2/29/2012 11:00:28 PM
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
Wow.. Flame throwers, legal and unregulated.. Gas in a bottle with a rag, regulated. Just think if flame throwers were controlled as a DD. If you happened to have a lighter in your pocket while holding some engine starting fluid, you could be charged with constructive intent. Hell, they could even start locking up circus fire breathers for being human flame throwers. And I'm sure they would. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 11:07:55 PM
[Last Edit: 2/29/2012 11:10:27 PM by RenegadeX]
Originally Posted By m1garand__man: If you have been watching the Natgeo series "Doom's Day Preppers" you may have seen the minister who is stocking up on alcohol and makes some Molotov cocktails and testes them on camera. It was my impression that making a Molotov cocktail even if it meant wrapping a rag on a bottle of everclear and lighting and throwing it was considered the manufacture and use of an explosive DD. I am assuming that he did not register them on a form 1. However asinine it may be to assume that a legal bottle of grain alcohol with a rag wrapped around it is creating a title II weapon I'm sure that’s what the ATF would consider it. Am I wrong? If not how did they get away with airing that on national television? Not wrong, MC are DDs. Plenty of convictions if you choose to google for it. Like the other idiot, who knows what the future holds for this clown. http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2012/02/020102-bos-connecticut-man-pleads-guilty-to-unlawful-possession-of-molotov-cocktail.html |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 6:00:30 PM
......last I checked that gas can only be transported and stored in a red canister made for it.
Military jeep owners would be shocked to hear this. Most of us have olive-drab 5-gallon Jerry cans full of gas on the backs of our jeeps... |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 6:05:59 PM
[Last Edit: 3/3/2012 6:10:29 PM by Prepared1]
They did the molotov coctail thing on Orange County Choppers a few years back also. I wondered how they got away with it then as well.
ETA: Sorry it's American Chopper. |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 1:47:33 AM
Originally Posted By AlexanderA:
......last I checked that gas can only be transported and stored in a red canister made for it.
Military jeep owners would be shocked to hear this. Most of us have olive-drab 5-gallon Jerry cans full of gas on the backs of our jeeps... And I guess Im guilty of transporting diesel in military brown plastic 5 gal jerry cans. lol  |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 11:47:50 AM
[Last Edit: 3/5/2012 11:49:20 AM by JeremyAR-15]
Yes, MC's are Destructive Devices. Its specifically names them in the ATF's list of DDs. And yes, the ATF has given itself the authority to judge "constuctive Intent." However, most of us could walk into any Joe's house and find a wine bottle in the recycle bin, an oily rag in the garage, gasoline in the shed, ect. The ATF is not going to arrest you because you have those items. Where our minister friend is going to be in trouble is that he openly purchases the item for the sole purpose of constucting an illegal weapon. Furthermore, he demonstrates such unregistered weapon on national TV. So, yes, the ATF could be kicking down his door right now and hauling his ass to jail.
Moral? Opsec people, Opsec. If NatGeo knocks on your door and asks to do a documentary on you, you kindly tell them that "you don't know what they're talking about" and turn them right around. |
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Homeinvader
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Joined: Jul 2003 USA
Posts: 2908 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/5/2012 12:54:01 PM
Originally Posted By JeremyAR-15:
Yes, MC's are Destructive Devices. Its specifically names them in the ATF's list of DDs. And yes, the ATF has given itself the authority to judge "constuctive Intent." However, most of us could walk into any Joe's house and find a wine bottle in the recycle bin, an oily rag in the garage, gasoline in the shed, ect. The ATF is not going to arrest you because you have those items. Where our minister friend is going to be in trouble is that he openly purchases the item for the sole purpose of constucting an illegal weapon. Furthermore, he demonstrates such unregistered weapon on national TV. So, yes, the ATF could be kicking down his door right now and hauling his ass to jail. Moral? Opsec people, Opsec. If NatGeo knocks on your door and asks to do a documentary on you, you kindly tell them that "you don't know what they're talking about" and turn them right around. It's " constructive possession" and ATF didn't make this up, this concept has been affirmed throughout the judicial system up to and including SCOTUS. CP is the framework by which they charge you with actual possession. |
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jman_131
Thanks for Reading.
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Joined: Dec 2008 WV, USA
Posts: 1794 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 3/15/2012 6:36:10 PM
If he referred to it as a Molotov cocktail, it is a destructive device. (I wonder how you engrave it...) If he said it was a bottle containing gasoline, and next to it is a rag that he uses to wipe up spills with, then I think that is a gray area.
 Jeremy |
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Posted: 3/16/2012 11:01:51 PM
Originally Posted By jman_131:
If he referred to it as a Molotov cocktail, it is a destructive device. (I wonder how you engrave it...) If he said it was a bottle containing gasoline, and next to it is a rag that he uses to wipe up spills with, then I think that is a gray area.
Jeremy Probably acid etch. I heard in this forum once of a guy who had an empty bottle registered as a DD and etched as such to keep as a conversation piece. LOL I wish I had $200 to just throw away. |
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tankdriver
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Joined: Mar 2004 TN, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2012 8:24:33 PM
I figure the producion company asked ATF for premission. There are all kinds of explosives used in movies, and TV.
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sardo_67
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Posted: 3/26/2012 4:22:02 AM
the guy doesn't know the law, made one, used it on film then it was put on TV. i doubt the ATF is gonna come knocking on his door as 80% if not more of the people employed by the ATF even realized they just witnessed a felony. i also hope they have better things to do.... well no they DO have better things to do with their time than go after some ass clown.
registering a MC, one member here was going to make a stainless steel and reusable cap that he engraved his info onto that would screw onto the bottle with an attached lit rag. he cold then reuse the cap and adapter in a legal MC. kinda cool in a way and i want to make one like that just to have it but i can't blow the $200 quite yet. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 11:00:37 PM
If we thought the MC was bad enough, did anyone see the idiot with the pipebombs?
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suprduc
I enjoy the recoil
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Joined: Jun 2010 IA, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2012 11:08:42 PM
Also remember that television shows are made in an effort to increase a company's ratings. Don't believe everything you see in terms if legalities. The ATF could have been standing right there watching the whole show that is made for "entertainment purposes".
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Posted: 4/20/2012 11:23:58 PM
Umm... didn't a recent episode feature an old balding dude making pipe bombs with his cousin or some shit. I swear he was filling capped 1inch steel tube with powder, stuffing a fuse through one end and planned to use them as perimeter defenses that would be remotely wired to his house for detonation.
Tell me one of you saw this also. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 11:35:57 PM
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
the guy doesn't know the law, made one, used it on film then it was put on TV. i doubt the ATF is gonna come knocking on his door as 80% if not more of the people employed by the ATF even realized they just witnessed a felony. i also hope they have better things to do.... well no they DO have better things to do with their time than go after some ass clown. Yes, there are cartels in Mexico waiting for their next weapon shipment and tons of cocaine to bring back to the US. registering a MC, one member here was going to make a stainless steel and reusable cap that he engraved his info onto that would screw onto the bottle with an attached lit rag. he cold then reuse the cap and adapter in a legal MC. kinda cool in a way and i want to make one like that just to have it but i can't blow the $200 quite yet. |
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mstennes
Working so the other 50% doesnt have to!
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Posted: 4/21/2012 12:07:37 PM
Originally Posted By JeremyAR-15:
If we thought the MC was bad enough, did anyone see the idiot with the pipebombs? I was just thinking of that, he even stated their illegal? WTF ?
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