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Posted: 12/20/2010 8:45:07 AM EDT
[#1]
I don't know about that but not to long ago they seemed to disappear from online places that sold them so something certainly happened.
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Posted: 12/20/2010 10:09:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I don't know about that but not to long ago they seemed to disappear from online places that sold them so something certainly happened. +1 |
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Posted: 12/20/2010 10:38:40 AM EDT
[#3]
I heard the same thing from a good friend of mine.
No hard facts, though. |
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Posted: 12/20/2010 10:56:46 AM EDT
[#4]
I was also told the same and now the security agency I work PT for has to send a copy of the ATF explosives licenses before we can get smoke.
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Posted: 12/20/2010 2:14:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Ok so I talked to ALS about other items today and asked them about smoke being considered DD. This is what I was told, "Smoke devices have been open market for years, in Nov the BATF affirmed the fact that the faze (M201A1 ignitor) is on the explosive material list and therefore is regulated." Besides gov't agencies the only way you can get these now from a ALS distributor is with a tax stamp or if you have a ATF explosives licences, like in my case.
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Posted: 12/20/2010 4:34:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Gay.
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Posted: 12/20/2010 5:09:01 PM EDT
[#7]
what happens to all the Airsofters that have been buying them by the butt load?
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Posted: 12/20/2010 6:14:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Gay. That sums it up! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/20/2010 6:50:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Smoke. It's so destructive.
I hate the BATFE. |
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Posted: 12/20/2010 7:28:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Glad I got a couple while I could.
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Posted: 12/21/2010 3:31:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Totally queer is an understatement. Wonder what the cost of trial and incarseration would be to convict/house "Billy Bob" for 15 years for Possesion and/or Deployment of an unregistered smoke generating device...One more rule to make criminals out of law abiding citizens.
RLS |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 7:11:13 AM EDT
[#12]
This should really piss off the skydiving community as we have been using them for the last 40+ years on ankle brackets during airshows and demos.
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Posted: 12/21/2010 7:53:34 AM EDT
[#13]
is there any grandfathering?
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Posted: 12/21/2010 10:13:42 AM EDT
[#14]
That's fucking retarded. Ive also gotten the same reply in my recent search.
Wondering if it's just comany ass saving from trouble makers or legit. |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 11:19:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Yippee! One less freedom to enjoy!
The terrorists have won kids. |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 12:02:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
This should really piss off the skydiving community as we have been using them for the last 40+ years on ankle brackets during airshows and demos. Don't they get a bit hot? |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 6:53:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Are they going to have an amnesty for all the M18s out in public hands?
Is this now a DD? linky thingy |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 7:09:10 PM EDT
[#18]
I just got to shoot my first 40mm today and asked about smoke grenades and was told they are now a DD by the owner, guess I wont be getting a 40mm now.
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Posted: 12/22/2010 12:09:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Are they going to have an amnesty for all the M18s out in public hands?
Is this now a DD? linky thingy the guy selling that is a douche. he's had a set of half assed M-60 rails from the 80s that are most likely warped on there since 2006 for $900. ok i'm confused now, i've seen 40mm smoke rounds on GB going for $125 each (they are rare) so that mean they can't be sold? |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 12:21:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Smoke. It's so destructive.
I hate the BATFE.[/ x2 I see them become the strong arm of the new gestopo under Obama. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 4:34:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I just got to shoot my first 40mm today and asked about smoke grenades and was told they are now a DD by the owner, guess I wont be getting a 40mm now. Not correct. The reason for the hand smoke grenades being so considered is the fuse. 40mm projectile grenades are still GTG. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 4:40:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
The reason for the hand smoke grenades being so considered is the fuse. 40mm projectile grenades are still GTG. That's nuts. you can make an equivalent fuse with readily available materials that are not in any way controlled. Especially so with smokes, which typically have no delay. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 7:25:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The reason for the hand smoke grenades being so considered is the fuse. 40mm projectile grenades are still GTG. That's nuts. you can make an equivalent fuse with readily available materials that are not in any way controlled. Especially so with smokes, which typically have no delay. Back to my original post: Gay. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 7:43:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Back to my original post: Gay. Definitly flamboyantly homosexual. 
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Posted: 12/22/2010 11:33:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Good grief...
 Please, someone provide a link to the official BATF ruling on the M201 fuze. There is none, as far as my google fu search on the BATFE website goes... http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/ There are the rulings. I don't see the fuze listed...
GROG |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 2:22:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Internet rumor? Hopefully. Still, the very implication, gay.
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Posted: 12/22/2010 2:38:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Hey guys I am not shitting you ALS told us straight out and like I quoted the fuse (M201A1 ignitor) that is used is on the explosives list and since November ALS has stopped selling these things to companies that sell them to civilians that is why ammunitiontogo and firequest no longer carriers them. ALS also requires all sales of them to be to gov't, LEO or individuals/entities that have special licences like in our case a explosives licences, because again of the fuse. I know it sucks and I am not trying to spread any BS nor am I trying to piss anyone off I am just stating what Mike Aulman; senior vice president of ALS told me. And with further questions I found that the M201A1 fuse is made with a perchlorate explosive mixture and perchlorate is one the ATF explosives list so as Grog pointed out the fuse itself is not on the list the materials in making the fuse is. And when its all said and done i still agree with it's GAY!
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Posted: 12/22/2010 2:50:19 PM EDT
[#28]
fuck me...... And fuck the BATFE  
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Posted: 12/22/2010 3:26:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Ok, lets skip the whole "fuck the ATF" for the meantime and talk legalities. Are smoke and tear gas grenades currently in private hands legal? And only current and future sales would be effected by this law? Basically, I want to know if I have a basement full of illegal devices that's going to land me in jail for the next hundred years.
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Posted: 12/22/2010 3:30:45 PM EDT
[#30]
You might also notice that, safety fuse, black powder, and smokeless powder is also on that "list". The list has nothing to do with being able to purchase the materials on it. I think ALS decided not to sell to civillians, and this is the easiest way for them to explain their decision. "ATF made us do it."
Here is the "list" for all to read: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-28874.pdf There are several manufacturers out there that "use" supposed things like this as an excuse not to sell to civvies. I know this to be true, as I have dealt with several dealers in less lethal 37/40mm munitions. The latest one told me flat out that he could sell everything in his invetory to civvies, except his liability insurance would be through the roof, so he chooses to only sell to LE/MIL or overseas export. That way, no one can sue him for being shot in the keester by some jerk with a launcher. It's plain and simple liability. No one wants to be liable. I would add that, according to REAL current regulations, ALL DDs MUST have a serial number, and be registered to their owner and/or Government Agency. There are NO serial numbers on M201 fuzes (a fuse is that rope stuff you light with a match. Fuze is a mechanical ignition system, like the M201) and no way to control something that many thousands of are already in civillian hands, including already fired ones. If they are now magically a DD, then every time an agency sets off a practice flash bang, CS, or smoke, they would have to report the destruction of the supposed DD on an ATF form... I don't see that ever happening. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 3:56:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Grog I do not doubt the points you make as I believe them to be true as well as some of them are and I also would not doubt this to be a way ALS or higher powers are trying to regulate this stuff. I'm just simply stating what I was told and have found out that's all and at this time I am not going to jump to any conclusions.. and thanks for the correction on the Fuze/fuse stupid spell check!
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Posted: 12/22/2010 4:47:02 PM EDT
[#32]
No problem Bro, GROG
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Posted: 12/23/2010 3:18:32 AM EDT
[#33]
In that case. Dealers are gay!
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Posted: 12/23/2010 7:47:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
In that case. Dealers are gay! Lawyers that make these dealers FEAR for their very livelyhood under threat of legal liabilities that these said lawyers will rain down on them if they are relevantly connected to an injury or TORT case = DOUCHEBAG LAWYERS Stupid lawyers who threaten lawsuits are to blame. Not the BATFE, not some GOV conspiracy - it all comes down to money... Will |
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Posted: 12/23/2010 2:31:05 PM EDT
[#35]
The 40mm is the perfect example of this nonsense. The US Government pays $12.00 each (back in 2009) for an HEDP M433 round. Smokes, paraflares, smoke markers, and buckshot cost them LESS. Now, I go and jump through all the "hoops" doing all the fingerprint cards, criminal history check, bothering the DA for his signature on yet another form 1, and for what? I have two 40mm launchers I had to build and scrounge for parts for MYSELF. I can't go out and buy ammo from an MEI catalog, ANY of the cool rounds to fire from the damn thing. I have to make, design, and produce my own. Why? Because of this shit. US manufacturers that will NOT sell to their own fellow citizens, because of simple liability. They won't even bother to talk to us most of the time.
M203s are perfectly legal for most of us in the US to own. I had to BUILD mine. Why? Because a good ole American Company like Colt, will sell an M203 to the Government for 320 bucks, but I have to pay over 1000 for mine, AND I can't buy a brand new Colt either, not because it's illegal, but because they won't sell me one. They won't even TALK to me about one. Funny, huh? Personally, I think it's disgusting that Americans can't buy good products from American companies anymore. Damn sad is what it is. |
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Posted: 12/23/2010 3:16:39 PM EDT
[#36]
If that is not the damn truth!! I agree 100%
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Posted: 12/23/2010 5:31:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Not seeing any of this, I tried to buy two yesterday. I was told the same that they are regulated now, however ALS was working on a new fuse that would deregulate it. Just what I was told
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Posted: 12/23/2010 5:44:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Sweet Pre-Ban Smokes, Can't wait to see the for sale ads popping up for these things now.
A lesson for all I guess, get things you want when you can before you can't |
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Posted: 12/24/2010 2:42:21 PM EDT
[#39]
yup did that, but figured Id get a few more. Nothing says stay away from looting my house then a nice fog of CS smoke.
**Note** Zombies not affected by CS or any other smoke devices, however they will light the night up if you hit them with a flame thrower, wonder if they taste like chicken |
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Posted: 12/24/2010 2:51:45 PM EDT
[#40]
At least LMT will sell launchers to civies...
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Posted: 12/27/2010 9:32:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
At least LMT will sell launchers to civies... Hey Bro... I think even LMT has slowed their sales in the civvie world. I've heard reports of some people having problems with them. Hopefully, they still are selling to civvies, but I know that when they first started out, they were selling 40mm barrels from their sales site. GROG |
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Posted: 1/5/2011 6:10:17 AM EDT
[#42]
wow. smoke. whats next? matches?
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Posted: 1/9/2011 8:08:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
...The US Government pays $12.00 each (back in 2009) for an HEDP M433 round.... That is a heck of a deal for those, there is alot that goes into them with the arming system and I would have thought the cost alot more. |
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Posted: 1/9/2011 4:04:07 PM EDT
[#44]
They buy in bulk... orders of 500,000 units at a time. I'm sure if we could afford that... we could get the $12.00 price too. ;) GROG
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Posted: 1/11/2011 6:02:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
yup did that, but figured Id get a few more. Nothing says stay away from looting my house then a nice fog of CS smoke. **Note** Zombies not affected by CS or any other smoke devices, however they will light the night up if you hit them with a flame thrower, wonder if they taste like chicken CS grenades have been illegal in TX for a good while now 
Sec. 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon; (2) a machine gun; (3) a short-barrel firearm; (4) a firearm silencer; (5) a switchblade knife; (6) knuckles; (7) armor-piercing ammunition; (8) a chemical dispensing device; or (9) a zip gun. (14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.
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Posted: 1/11/2011 6:40:45 AM EDT
[#46]
FTBATFE
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Posted: 1/11/2011 3:51:32 PM EDT
[#47]
redacted
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Posted: 1/13/2011 3:28:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
You might also notice that, safety fuse, black powder, and smokeless powder is also on that "list". The list has nothing to do with being able to purchase the materials on it. I think ALS decided not to sell to civillians, and this is the easiest way for them to explain their decision. "ATF made us do it." Here is the "list" for all to read: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-28874.pdf There are several manufacturers out there that "use" supposed things like this as an excuse not to sell to civvies. I know this to be true, as I have dealt with several dealers in less lethal 37/40mm munitions. The latest one told me flat out that he could sell everything in his invetory to civvies, except his liability insurance would be through the roof, so he chooses to only sell to LE/MIL or overseas export. That way, no one can sue him for being shot in the keester by some jerk with a launcher. It's plain and simple liability. No one wants to be liable. I would add that, according to REAL current regulations, ALL DDs MUST have a serial number, and be registered to their owner and/or Government Agency. There are NO serial numbers on M201 fuzes (a fuse is that rope stuff you light with a match. Fuze is a mechanical ignition system, like the M201) and no way to control something that many thousands of are already in civillian hands, including already fired ones. If they are now magically a DD, then every time an agency sets off a practice flash bang, CS, or smoke, they would have to report the destruction of the supposed DD on an ATF form... I don't see that ever happening. The expert has spoken. I figured it would be a liability issue. I have a few and it sucks that I bought a couple of pouches specifically to carry them. What's the shelf life for the ALS white smoke grenades? 8 years? |
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Posted: 1/13/2011 3:30:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Not seeing any of this, I tried to buy two yesterday. I was told the same that they are regulated now, however ALS was working on a new fuse that would deregulate it. Just what I was told Hmm . . . There could be a silver lining here. 
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Posted: 1/15/2011 12:53:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not seeing any of this, I tried to buy two yesterday. I was told the same that they are regulated now, however ALS was working on a new fuse that would deregulate it. Just what I was told Hmm . . . There could be a silver lining here. I wouldn't be surprised, other than militarys American civilians have to be their biggest consumers. They must be taking a big hit losing all that customer base in one pen stroke by the ATF. |
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