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Posted: 4/22/2017 3:51:52 AM EDT
[#1]
Dang, you didn't make this easy. All three of those are top-notch cans.
The omega is a tad quieter, plus it has lots of aftermarket support. You can get titanium endcaps and direct thread mounts for cheaper than SiCo sells them...and bring the weight down to 11 OZ 
Plus, I don't see dead air or rugged selling any sort of direct thread mount at all, which (at least to me) is important on precision bolt actions. Sandman would be my runner up due to how awesome the mounting system is... But then again, the omega can use their system with a kymo mount, if you ever want to upgrade in the future. Omega. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 7:35:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Just looking at the requirements I don't think that either the Sandman S or the Razor will give you those DB readings on a 10.5 barrel. The omega may with the 5.56 end cap.
Also considering that you are using it on an sbr I would make weight more important than sound. The Sandman S is the heaviest and longest of the list when the omega uses a flat cap. I have all three and the omega is not coming off my home hd gun. I'm shooting the Razor this weekend to see how it performs. With that said, I would choose the omega for the price and the direct threading. The razor would be second due to the length and weight. The mount appears to be solid and will know more later after I shoot it. Omega on a 11.5 bcm sbr at 8 lbs 9 oz as you see it with a loaded 30 mag 
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Posted: 4/22/2017 9:36:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Those aren't going to get a 10.5-11.5 5.56 down to 134 db. Not. Going. To. Happen.
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Posted: 4/22/2017 11:04:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks guys!
Okay, what if I re-evaluate and say 140 dB or lower and go for durability? I've read some information about the durability of the Omega not being as great because of the way it was constructed to make it so light (glueing???). I've read that the Razor is a solid constructed can and has a good tone. Oh, and if I don't direct thread the Omega is it still less than 7"? |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 11:24:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Why not a surge. k config gets you 7.5. Full at 9 inches gets you quieter. Best of both worlds.
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Posted: 4/22/2017 11:28:01 AM EDT
[#6]
I have an Omega and a Sandman-S, the Sandman primarily sees use on an 11.5" 5.56 SBR right this minute. It certainly takes the edge off, but it's still loud. The Omega right now is primarily my 300 Blackout can, for an upper that hasn't been built yet.
All three of those choices are great cans. You can't really go wrong with any of them. The mount and no minimum barrel length restrictions sold me on the Sandman, and the weight and versatility had me buying an Omega. And while I don't own one, I've seen Rugged's M240 with a Razor doing belt dumps, and they have some video on their Youtube channel beating the hell out of that can with an M16, it seems to be a very stout and durable piece. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 11:39:24 AM EDT
[#7]
I went with the Razor over Sandman S because it's shorter, meters better a little better, and I'd already decided on a Surge over the L. I have no interest in the Omega.
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Posted: 4/22/2017 11:48:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Never heard a bad word about Dead Air.
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Posted: 4/22/2017 1:40:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Does anyone have dB ratings on these three for 5.56 SBRs? Or even a 16" dB rating comparing the three?
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Posted: 4/22/2017 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone have dB ratings on these three for 5.56 SBRs? Or even a 16" dB rating comparing the three? 300 blk 8" sbr: Sandman L 132.6 122.2 121.2 121.4 119.4 Sandman S 135.4 129.2 131.1 129.0 133.0 Silencerco Specwar 762 123.8 122.3 121.9 123.8 121.7 Silencerco Omega with brake 123.9 125.0 122.5 120.6 120.0 Silencerco Omega flat endcap 127.0 124.3 124.1 123.9 121.7 Rugged Surge full size 126.0 119.7 119.0 118.9 118.4 Rugged Surge K config 127.8 124.0 122.5 123.3 123.3 No can 154.1 153.8 153.8 153.5 ------------------------------- 556 16" barrel: No can 160.4 160.4 160.4 160.4 160.2 Silencerco Specwar K 134.3 131.7 132.1 130.6 135.5 Silencerco Specwar 123.8 127.1 128.0 128.1 127.7 Silencerco Omega 762 endcap 132.8 131.6 130.0 128.7 Only 4 shots for some reason (looking at you, JPK, lol) Silencerco Omega 556 endcap 129.0 127.7 127.7 127.1 127.8 Silencerco Omega with brake 134.4 130.4 129.5 129.3 129.6 10.5" SBR 556 No can 162.4 162.6 160.5 162.6 162.6 Dead Air Sandman L 134.1 131.9 131.8 131.2 132.9 Dead Air Sandman S 139.7 139.1 139.9 138.0 136.9 Dead Air brake no can (LOL) 162.3 163.2 No mas!!!! Rugged Surge 762 134.0 131.0 130.5 129.7 130.7 Rugged Surge K 762 endcap 134.8 132.7 Not properly captured 133.4 133.1 Rugged Surge K 556 endcap 134.2 134.7 134.2 132.5 132.9 Rugged Surge 556 endcap 127.6 129.2 129.6 128.1 129.4 Silencerco Omega 762 Anchor brake 131.6 130.5 131.3 130.9 131.0 Silencerco Omega 762 flat endcap 135.7 133.9 133.6 132.8 132.1 Source... Hope this helps. No Razor, sorry. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 3:08:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Omega would be lightest and quiestest of the 3 choices. The Sandman S and Razor would be so close the deciding factor between those 2 would be mount preferance and styling.
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Posted: 4/22/2017 3:26:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here you go, wall of text incoming. Full disclosure, all of the readings in this test are about 3-4db too low. However, since the cans were all tested identically, we can compare them. Don't use this data for anything other than comparison. 300 blk 8" sbr: Sandman L 132.6 122.2 121.2 121.4 119.4 Sandman S 135.4 129.2 131.1 129.0 133.0 Silencerco Specwar 762 123.8 122.3 121.9 123.8 121.7 Silencerco Omega with brake 123.9 125.0 122.5 120.6 120.0 Silencerco Omega flat endcap 127.0 124.3 124.1 123.9 121.7 Rugged Surge full size 126.0 119.7 119.0 118.9 118.4 Rugged Surge K config 127.8 124.0 122.5 123.3 123.3 No can 154.1 153.8 153.8 153.5 ------------------------------- 556 16" barrel: No can 160.4 160.4 160.4 160.4 160.2 Silencerco Specwar K 134.3 131.7 132.1 130.6 135.5 Silencerco Specwar 123.8 127.1 128.0 128.1 127.7 Silencerco Omega 762 endcap 132.8 131.6 130.0 128.7 Only 4 shots for some reason (looking at you, JPK, lol) Silencerco Omega 556 endcap 129.0 127.7 127.7 127.1 127.8 Silencerco Omega with brake 134.4 130.4 129.5 129.3 129.6 10.5" SBR 556 No can 162.4 162.6 160.5 162.6 162.6 Dead Air Sandman L 134.1 131.9 131.8 131.2 132.9 Dead Air Sandman S 139.7 139.1 139.9 138.0 136.9 Dead Air brake no can (LOL) 162.3 163.2 No mas!!!! Rugged Surge 762 134.0 131.0 130.5 129.7 130.7 Rugged Surge K 762 endcap 134.8 132.7 Not properly captured 133.4 133.1 Rugged Surge K 556 endcap 134.2 134.7 134.2 132.5 132.9 Rugged Surge 556 endcap 127.6 129.2 129.6 128.1 129.4 Silencerco Omega 762 Anchor brake 131.6 130.5 131.3 130.9 131.0 Silencerco Omega 762 flat endcap 135.7 133.9 133.6 132.8 132.1 Source... Hope this helps. No Razor, sorry. It's down to the Omega with flat end cap (I'll probably buy a 5.56 end cap), or Rugged Razor with 5.56 end cap. Now...if I can only find dB comparison between the Omega and Razor. Razor would be my choice for length...just not sure about the dB comparison to the Omega on SBR. Edit: also, anyone have experience with the gas blow back on the Razor or Omega??? One better than the other? |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 3:35:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Awe...some! Thank you, sir...Extremely helpful! It's down to the Omega with flat end cap (I'll probably buy a 5.56 end cap), or Rugged Razor with 5.56 end cap. Now...if I can only find dB comparison between the Omega and Razor. Razor would be my choice for length...just. It sure about the dB comparison to the Omega on SBR. Also, I saw earlier you mentioned something about durability. Make sure you watch this:  SilencerCo Omega Full Auto Torture Test A lot of people meme about the fact that the omega is constructed with glue and or loctite, which is technically true. In reality, the whole baffle stack is welded together, and adhesives are only used to attach the outer tube. This means that if you get a baffle strike, it is easily fixed, rather than having to Frankenstein the can... Or worse, have to wait 10 months for a new one. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 3:44:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Because you want to use it on a hunting rifle, I have to recommend the Omega because of its weight. With the titanium parts that are available on the aftermarket, it really can't be beat....
I have 2 and I like them for the that reason and the overall modularity... sounds good too. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 3:57:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can tell you that the omega is quieter. It beat the Surge K, which is longer than the Razor. Also, I saw earlier you mentioned something about durability. Make sure you watch this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sj8FP5nh98
A lot of people meme about the fact that the omega is constructed with glue and or loctite, which is technically true. In reality, the whole baffle stack is welded together, and adhesives are only used to attach the outer tube. This means that if you get a baffle strike, it is easily fixed, rather than having to Frankenstein the can... Or worse, have to wait 10 months for a new one. Rugged did one with the Surge too, but no follow up. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 4:14:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing that matters most never seems to be shown in such videos, the consequences. What do the baffles look like and how does it suppress after that type of use. Rugged did one with the Surge too, but no follow up. If you want to see what baffles look like after some more rational use, there is a thread for posting photos of baffles after a known or estimated number of rounds. Don't recall the exact thread title, but the gist is that unless you are repelling hordes your suppressor is going to last a LONG time. [And I bet SiCo, DeadAir or Rugged would rebuild your can if you did manage to shoot it enough to wear it out.] Omega would be my choice. Great performance, lots of versatility, light weight. Light weight. Light weight. I mentioned light weight repeatedly because the longer I use my suppressors the lighter I want them. Omega at 6" adding 5.4" to barrel length (for a comparative barrel length of 11.5" + 5.4" = 16.9", shorter than a 16" with an A2,) weighing in at 11.4oz and providing excellent performance: 
JPK |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 4:20:10 PM EDT
[#17]
I vote omega, but get it at capitol armory and then add the tacsol axiom .22 for $100.
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Posted: 4/22/2017 6:01:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I vote omega, but get it at capitol armory and then add the tacsol axiom .22 for $100. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 6:22:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
#winning |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 6:40:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I vote omega, but get it at capitol armory and then add the tacsol axiom .22 for $100. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 8:38:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Just spent time with the razor and it is as you see in the numbers above on the surge in the K configuration it is much louder than the Omega...not a surprise. Mine was on a 16 inch bcm elw stock upper.
Mount came off no problem but it was really hot so I didn't let it cool off. I definitely would not shoot it without ears if it could be helped. Yes it takes the edge off of shooting 5.56. I would still use the Omega on my hd 11.5 sbr because it does most of everything I need for a suppressor. It wasn't to gassy and I didn't have junk hitting me in the face. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 9:26:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Omega would be lightest and quiestest of the 3 choices. The Sandman S and Razor would be so close the deciding factor between those 2 would be mount preferance and styling. |
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Posted: 4/22/2017 10:13:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree some what with that statment: the sandman s is over 2.5 ounces heavier and longer than the razor. If weight and length are an issue take the razor over the sandman. Sandman S is over 22 ounces with the 5.56 flash hider. It is noticeably heavier on the end of a barrel. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 2:52:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Alright...I'm starting to lean toward the Omega.
JPK, was it you that had posted the OAL of the Omega with ASR mount and flat end cap option in another thread? Need to find that again... |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 3:18:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Anyone know if the KYMO adapter adds more length to the Omega then the ASR mount?
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Posted: 4/23/2017 8:03:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I vote omega, but get it at capitol armory and then add the tacsol axiom .22 for $100. The Axiom is a great suppressor and for a 100 dollars it is a steal. Sounds as good as the mask and a little lighter. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 8:09:32 AM EDT
[#27]
This came from TOS and no way of verifying it because I don't have a kymo on my Omega:
My KYMO arrived today. Taking measurements of the Omega with flat cap: Total length with ASR: 6 3/4" Total length with KYMO: 7 3/8" If you use the Keymount brake, the attachment puts the can approx 1/4" further back than the ASR muzzle device allows. Approx total added length with KYMO mount is 1/4". Weights: ASR mount: 3.5oz KYMO mount: 4.7oz Issue: the KYMO instructions specify using the tool included with the Omega to tighten the mount into place. Problem is that the KYMO mount screws too far into the Omega to make the indexing points useable. I have an email out to Dead Air and will update. Again not from me so do with it as you see fit. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 9:48:10 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alright...I'm starting to lean toward the Omega. JPK, was it you that had posted the OAL of the Omega with ASR mount and flat end cap option in another thread? Need to find that again... I'm not sure the differences make a practical difference though. The Omega with flat cap measures 6 3/4" to the back of the knurled locking ring but the collet extends 1/8" beyond the ring when locked. OAL from FH or brake/barrel thread shoulder joint to end of the flat cap is 7 1/8" So, total length added from the muzzle is 7.125" - .6" = 6.525" with the Omega in ASR QD and flat end cap configuration. I'll try to post photos of configurations and lengths later today. ETA: While the Keymo might be a better mounting system than ASR, there is really nothing wrong with the ASR system. I have yet to read of any issue that wasn't user induced. ASR isn't idiot proof and you have to pay attention when mounting the can and make sure you thread the Omega all the way home and make sure you lock the collar. And it is a good idea to check the collar every so often if you are in the field. Don't hot swap cans, like with ANY other QD set up... Simple stuff. So, before springing the not inconsiderable $s on a Keymo conversion, adding length and weight, I would suggest giving the ASR system a good try. JPK |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 10:02:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Not my measurements just passing info on from TOS. I don't own a kymo mount
Thanks for the clarification jpk |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 11:52:28 AM EDT
[#30]
Size, weight, and performance are close enough not to matter.
Look at other things such as: -customer support -likelihood of the company existing in 5-10 years -mounting system and if you'll purchase additional cans from the same company to use the same mount |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 2:35:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Size, weight, and performance are close enough not to matter. Look at other things such as: -customer support -likelihood of the company existing in 5-10 years -mounting system and if you'll purchase additional cans from the same company to use the same mount As far as customer support and company longevity, does one clearly stand out? I've heard all have great customer service. Haven't dealt with any of them, though. I know SiCo has been around the longest of the three. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 2:56:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good points...not sure I'll buy additional cans from any of them. I'd probably go with a dedicated 5.56 can next...either a Griffin Armament M4SD II or Recce 5. As far as customer support and company longevity, does one clearly stand out? I've heard all have great customer service. Haven't dealt with any of them, though. I know SiCo has been around the longest of the three. FWIW I bought an Omega and decided on a specwar 556K as a dedicated 556 can. In hindsight I'd have rather had two omegas. They're so close in sound and size but the omega is more versatile since I can't use the specwar on anything but 556. The specwar is a beefier can, but I'll never realize the benefits of that, and neither will most shooters. I wanted Surefire cans but they were not in stock when I made my purchase. Making a purchase today, I'd look at dead air and their keymo system. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 3:12:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In no particular order, Griffin, Surefire, Silencerco, and AAC have been around a while and will probably stick around. Maybe YHM too. FWIW I bought an Omega and decided on a specwar 556K as a dedicated 556 can. In hindsight I'd have rather had two omegas. They're so close in sound and size but the omega is more versatile since I can't use the specwar on anything but 556. The specwar is a beefier can, but I'll never realize the benefits of that, and neither will most shooters. I wanted Surefire cans but they were not in stock when I made my purchase. Making a purchase today, I'd look at dead air and their keymo system. I was actually thinking about the SpecWar K for my next can. However, I think the Griffin probably leads the pack d/t it's sound suppression. I really like the Dead Air mounting system, but I'm not a big fan of the dB ratings...same reason I have Griffins on my list over the Surefire. Without owning a suppressor, I guess I don't really know how big of a difference 138-140 dB is over 134-136, to me. Right now, it seems like a big enough difference to go with a Griffin over the others...and I've heard the Recce 5 has a great mounting system. It's tough...I think I'd like to have the Razor...not sue why, just something I really like about it...more if a heart choice. But, it seems like the Omega is the right head choice. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 4:50:37 PM EDT
[#34]
On 556 your still gonna have super sonic crack no matter the db rating of the suppressor so for 556 I would look at other attributes as deciding factors because most well known suppressor manufacturers will be close db wise. Now on 300blk the lowest possbile at ear db is what I would want.
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Posted: 4/23/2017 5:51:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On 556 your still gonna have super sonic crack no matter the db rating of the suppressor so for 556 I would look at other attributes as deciding factors because most well known suppressor manufacturers will be close db wise. Now on 300blk the lowest possbile at ear db is what I would want. Also...if you could get a Recce 5 or Surefire Socom, and the Recce gives you a 5+ dB decrease...would people really not choose the Recce because of the supersonic crack? |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 6:48:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Surefire and Dead Air have lower back pressure and will be a little louder at ear. Honestly in 556 I cant tell a tremendous difference in suppressors sound wise but that may be my ears. As far as the Reece 5 I've not heard one but from all I've seen it's a top performer in 556.
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Posted: 4/23/2017 6:50:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Unless you are going to do something as foolish as the full auto product demonstration vids with your own suppressor, which cost you real s and a long wait, who cares what the baffles look like? If you want to see what baffles look like after some more rational use, there is a thread for posting photos of baffles after a known or estimated number of rounds. Don't recall the exact thread title, but the gist is that unless you are repelling hordes your suppressor is going to last a LONG time. [And I bet SiCo, DeadAir or Rugged would rebuild your can if you did manage to shoot it enough to wear it out.] Omega would be my choice. Great performance, lots of versatility, light weight. Light weight. Light weight. I mentioned light weight repeatedly because the longer I use my suppressors the lighter I want them. Omega at 6" adding 5.4" to barrel length (for a comparative barrel length of 11.5" + 5.4" = 16.9", shorter than a 16" with an A2,) weighing in at 11.4oz and providing excellent performance: JPK I know, there many threads on casual use. That's great and all, but I want to see what it looks like after of that kind of use. The point of a test is the result. Otherwise it's just demonstration with no purpose. If you're going to "torture test" a product, why not show the results? Since they're doing it anyway we might as well learn something interesting. Why wouldn't you want to know? Surge TortureTest |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 8:36:39 PM EDT
[#38]
I know it wasn't on your list, but I would give a vote for the Griffin Armament Recce 7. Nice numbers and versatile can. I really like mine.
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Posted: 4/23/2017 10:29:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it wasn't on your list, but I would give a vote for the Griffin Armament Recce 7. Nice numbers and versatile can. I really like mine. |
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Posted: 4/23/2017 10:41:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I need one :( Love my recce 5 |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 12:02:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it wasn't on your list, but I would give a vote for the Griffin Armament Recce 7. Nice numbers and versatile can. I really like mine. My main purpose for buying a suppressor was to have it on my 10.5" SBR, so I was trying to keep it short while still achieving a dB level that would allow me to take a couple shots without ear pro without killing my ears (if ever needed). The plan is always to shoot with ears on, but if I'm hunting with my 5.56 or, God forbid, ever have to use it in a SD/HD situation I'd like to not lose my hearing taking a shot or three. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 7:01:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Night hog and predator hunting was what got me into suppressors and SBRs.
A suppressor is great for the reason you mentioned with a couple of other benefits. One is typically great flash suppression. Another is that the quarry seems to have trouble pinpointing where the shot came from, leading to more doubles, triples, etc. Of course, you add 6-7" to a 16" carbine and it gets unwieldy, leading to SBRs... Of the three you mentioned, the weight is pretty close on two, but the Omega is a lot lighter. For hunting the Surefire SOCOM is underwhelming. It is both heavy and loud. My main predator hunting bud has one, I prefer when he brings his rifle set up with a Halo, which sounds great. For the best, simplest, most robust QD mount YHM can't be beat. All of the moving and wear pieces are in the muzzle device rather than the suppressor. I have never heard of one wearing out though. I have also never heard of any mount issues aside from one stuck can from hot swapping. JPK |
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