There was just a metric shit ton of silencers sold in the 18 months leading up to the final 41F change.  Esp. at the very end right before the change.  Silencer buyers are often repeat buyers, a lot of guys are still waiting on the last cans they bought.

Also, is it just impossible to cancel orders in the firearms / NFA biz?  Based on my local LGS, they have a crap load of silencers they ordered that they expected to get pre-41F that have only come in the the last couple months.  They probably have 3x the number of cans I had ever seen them stock before.

However, I think the talk of HPA passage is keeping new guys on the sidelines.

I just made my first NFA purchase post 41F, but I got an insane deal on an Omega 9K because some wealthy dude thought he needed a dozen cans before 41F but failed to send in papers on several of them and decided to eat the difference between what he paid and what the dealer could unload it for.   Taking into account the rebate, I am probably at half price what it would have cost me with $200 tax before 41F.

Pretty good video looking at the current state of the bill. Also interesting comments regarding and apparent scrubbing of social media that occurred.  

I don't think sico screwed up with the HPA, I just looked at it as an educational and political activism.  In fact, I distinctly recall placing it in a similar light as AAC when they were active.  I'm glad to see companies doing something

Great vid—thanks for posting.  I still haven't been shown where SilencerCo and ASA said this was a done deal and we’d see passage this year.

I've been digging, and so far I've found Bearing Arms who made a list of 5 things Trump could do that made it to various clickbait websites, which seems to be the source of most of the "60 Day" claims that got passed around. Similar things were echoed around a few random gun blogs.  

As far as the ASA, I found a few various quotes from Knox Williams:

Click To View SpoilerHe echoed similar sentiments in multiple other articles. I've also seen noted in multiple articles "and the ASA hopes to pass it within the first 100 days of President Trump’s time in office" and one direct quote of "Will it happen in the first hundred days? Who knows," he said. "That's what we're going for." We're trying to get it done as quick as possible.". Reading some info and watching a few interviews from Owen Miller, he also expressed that it is an uphill battle, and urged people to contact reps, etc.

Also found a list of things that have been accomplished in the last 5 years:



As far as SilencerCo goes, their email right after the election was pretty straight forward and I can't personally find where they expressed "it's a done deal".

Click To View Spoiler

Nowhere in that quote did they claim credit for any of that. That is just a "State of the Industry" statement.

Yeah, I fucked that one up. Edited the wording.

Stumbled across this video for the first time since it was released. Kind of crazy to think how much the industry has changed in a few short years.

Thank you for doing some digging.  Your research results mirror mine.  This is a laughable amount of evidence from which some in our midst have concluded SilencerCo and ASA misled the shooting public into thinking HPA would be fast-tracked and was a done deal.

Why do you think some of theses have been more common in the last few years when they have been in some manufacturing industries for quite some time?
Just product development without the knowledge of what is out there?

I would say mostly cost issue.

Cost with the aforementioned is a stretch to me given that it's nothing new.
Maybe because things have been way cheaper than when manufacturing was halfway decent.
Used machine costs are extremely affordable and it's not like certain grades of TI and Inconel are trade secrets anymore.
I know things still have room for innovation if they care to look outside of the regular "community" and hope it comes sooner than later.

Well feel free to ask all those companies that did not use those things why and see what answers you get. I remember when AAC got its first robotic welder and it was such a game changer they ran a huge marketing campaign around it. And Trey Knights view on Inconel are well known.

10+ years ago many companies were small shops, some 1-2 people. They had no budget for things that are common now.

I just didn't know how fast it has exploded and that shops where that small in size.
Just haven't followed this industry too much up until recent years.
I come from generations of family in the machining/manufacturing industry owning and overseeing decent sized companies, seems to be that many things can still be translated to this specific market.
Being that most manufactures only make cans is it fair to say that it is much harder for them to cover overhead i.e. machines and processes?
If an industry person would want to see what is out there, I would be thrilled to talk.
If you ever heard of Babcock Wilcox, they have a division that is called NOG, thats where I am. Don't play on machines anymore but they listen when it comes tooling and processes.

Problem with HPA is easy. Government is not going to give up any taxes or income. So guys how many of you would be willing and happy to be able to buy a can and pay the dealer the added $200 tax and walk out the door?   Getting the NFA to drop suppressors is one thing. But trying to get the government to give up $9,000,000 a year in income ain't gonna happen. I would be perfectly willing to pay the tax (no stamp ) and buy my can and go home same day.

They didn't start ASA, Kevin did. Or at least it was his brainchild.  Kevin wanted an industry group that championed the promotion of silencers and the deregulation of the same.  I argued with him about the name, as I thought it would be better served with an international following as there are countries that don't face the same regulation that the USA faces.  I wanted to call it the International Silencer Association.  Nevertheless it was his idea and he started it.  Kevin sold out to Remington and they knew he had a bad rep among his peers because of his marketing tactics so they (Remington Defense) thought it would be better if someone else would head it up.  I was offered the position which I promptly refused.  Kevin was fired a few months later and I changed my position in the industry.  Silencerco stepped in and the rest is history.  Brittingham and I talked about the creation of the ASA at least two years prior to the appearance of SiCo in the industry.  Silencerco didn't think up the ASA, someone else did.  In fact they thought up very little, but they are the first to come up with an integrally suppressed, from scratch, semiautomatic  9mm handgun.  Its probably not very quiet as they have NEVER used the standards of testing prescribed in MIL-STD 1474D or E.

I think the real reason for this push with the ASA and the HPA stems from the fact that they have known for some time that the modular silencers they produce don't comply with the ATF "definition of silencer."  If they can change the rules then they won't have to face the "guns" when ATF drops the ban hammer on the Salvo 12, the Osprey Micro, the Maxim9, and the interchangeable end caps that change calibers...etc...This is the best chance in history they have to get silencers deregulated.  If the ASA doesn't pass, then ATF will charge forth with its already in the works witch hunt for modular silencers.  Silencerco has pinned its future on modular silencers, which have never been deemed legal by ATF Tech branch when a manufacturer asked for it.  The trust loophole closed with 41F and buyers are sitting on the fence until they get an answer from the legislature and the president.  The entire C2 manufacturing industry is in limbo right now waiting for an answer.

That being said, you really do need to call your reps and senators and demand they support the HPA.  Silencers make a weapon quieter (some are better than others) and offer far more advantages in actual use than the wait times and the price costs you today.  The present day situation might be a microcosm in time whereby the next 4 years may be your last chance to own a silencer before they go the way machineguns did in 1986.  If, for example, the HPA passes and is in force for the next 4 years and this silencer favorable administration losses power in 2021, silencers could be banned for except for those currently on the books.  If this happened a 22 silencer could cost you several thousand dollars instead of a few hundred.  Political environments change and so do regulations.  Buy now and support the HPA.

The whole industry is hurting because of 41F and the anticipation of the HPA. Just because SilencerCo is the first company to lay off employees doesn't mean that they will be the last or that they are a failure.

As for the guy who said that Dead Air and Rugged are SilencerCo's biggest competitors, you gotta be fucking kidding me.

Some great info here. Thanks.

So?  The next lib president could ban them anyway. Just because they get taken off the NFA doesn't mean they can't be banned.

That's why I hate this shit. We seem like little kids beggin for ours rights back.

This is NOT how we will get our rights back and keep them permanently.

Maybe Trump can stack the SCOTUS and we can get a ruling but even then. Traitors don't listen to the constitution now. They will ignore a SCOTUS ruling if they need to.

What needs to happen is gun owners need to march down to the office of any politician who tries to enact gun legislation and rip them out of office and put them in jail. Period. And for the boot lickers who will laugh or Coke up with reasons why that's stupid guess what, WE are the boss. We can do whatever we want. The gov is suppose to be the ones with boundaries and rules.

But no. Now we have a tiny group of greedy traitors who make tens of millions of us now to them because supposed heroes (police) will follow orders and enforce unconstitutional laws.

The whole thing makes me sick.

Who do you think is a strong competitor for SiCO?

Very true - that's what killed it for me. I can think of 2 more SBR's and at least one if not 2 more suppressors I would buy today if it wasn't for 41F. HPA would be nice but I'm not holding my breath or basing any buying decisions around it.

No, he wasn't fucking kidding you. He was dead fucking serious.

Interesting info.


Tell me how that works out for you. Violence begets violence.

This is where I completely disagree with you. Right now the ASA folks are a lot more important than those "hardworking engineers" (which is funny term to read because never in my life have I seen a "hardworking" engineer!) to the long term survival of companies like SiCo.

Thanks to 41F, the HPA is the only thing that will save this industry. if the HPA fails, those poor hardworking engineers are going to loose their jobs anyway but the ASA is out doing more than the NRA or any other major group to make the HPA happen.

Nvm. You won't get it and some triggered snowflake will report my post.

Did you steal this rant from Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street or some other group?  


Finally, someone for the '13er's to laugh at.

IMHO 41F did more to slow suppressor sales the the possibility of the HPA passing.  Most people I know that say they are waiting to buy a suppressor to see if the HPA is passes is people who don't even own a suppressor to start with and are just waiting.  Me and some others I know who do already own suppressors have years worth of suppressor purchases that we made to beat 41F.  So it's not like I'm waiting on HPA before I purchase again it's that I've aquired more suppressors than I currently have time to shoot so I don't need to buy any for a while.  I think alot of people in the NFA game did that and are spending money on non-NFA items or paying down credit cards now.

So, just to be clear, you're advocating armed rebellion?  And you believe now is the time for it?

Also, we're the BOSS.

Well, I can honestly say I did not see this thread going towards revolution. Blindsided I am.

Agreed. Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of Americans are content with what they are given.

NFA owners are statistically insignificant.

Very likely didn't help.

I assume everyone on this thread has contacted both of their Senators?

All of them. Form letters.

Nope. Did one better - I signed a petition.

@ goloud: You're statistically insignificant!

You know the White House petitions are pretty worthless right?

that's the joke.gif

All of this is whats slowing me up.

Somehow I don't think that these will see any attention from the whitehouse -

Attached File

The original Hughes repeal petition failed because it was 2000 signatures short.

Attached File


There is another one started that calls out 18 USC 922o specifily that is only a few days old -

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/repeal-1986-full-auto-ban-18-usc-ss-922o

There is already a provision for that in the US constitution, Article 5. Two-thirds of the states can call for a constitutional convention for amendments and 3/4 of the states can ratify, all this without federal government permission. The point of it was to give the people another recourse (short of armed rebellion) for controlling federal gov over reach.

The republicans are one state legislature away from the magic 2/3 mark. Let's focus on this rather than mob violence.

This is the single most absolutely retarded thread I've ever seen on this forum.

Meh.  I've seen worse here.