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Posted: 2/21/2017 2:08:13 PM EDT
So SilencerCo has become the laughing stock of the suppressor community lately.  Or at least in some circles.  One contention is that they went full retard on HPA, and thus are responsible for shooting their own sales in the foot.

I just went back through every email SilencerCo sent me, from before the HPA was originally introduced to today.  Nowhere do I see anything close to resembling the balls-to-the-wall-HPA-100-days attitude they're being accused of having.  I watched all 38 minutes of the Waldron/Trump interview.  Ain't there either.  

So would someone mind showing me where SiCo/Waldron made the statements they're being accused of?
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 2:40:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Exactly. The ASA and SilencerCo were NEVER Balls to the wall 100 days to passing. I have been a sponsor of the ASA for quite some time now. I have also been talking with the folks over there regularly. Never once did they say anothing other than it is a waiting game and it will take time. The brightest projection they have ever made was "hopefully by the end of 2017". Never more than that. So ignore anyone who says otherwise. It's absurd.

SilencerCo is SMART. They didn't downsize because they were going out of business and were caught off guard. They have slowed things down to survive the wait for the HPA to pass. They will be just fine for many months at their current sales levels. If it goes on like this for a year or more, who knows. Many Silencer ONLY companies (those who only make silencers), will probably fold or scale back big time if it is that long. But I think we are good before winter on the HPA. Maybe a little sooner, like end of summer. We will see.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 2:44:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Maybe I've missed the HPA finger pointing. If anything, we should be looking towards ourselves on the HPA and better learn how to manage our expectations.

From an outsiders point of view, it certainly appears that SilencerCo has high overhead - dramatic ad campaigns, marketing blitzes and special project runs. The SHOT booth looked like it had upwards of 40 people working there at times. From a layman's perspective, all of that on top of the 41F boom/bust seems unsustainable. Leading to some layoffs.

They make (made) great products, but only time will tell if future releases will stay relevant after the loss of so many intelligent engineers/designers over the past few years.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 2:46:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Their biggest mistakes were chasing off Pappas and then less than a year later, Graham too.

The most successful cans in their lineup (save the Omega 30) were designed by those guys. Even the Omega is very similar to their designs, but with different materials and assembly.

Now, both Pappas and Graham have their own companies and are producing offerings that are effectively evolutionary upgrades to SilencerCo's cans.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 2:46:19 PM EDT
[#4]
It's the 'Trump is the 2A Lord and Savior' community/attitude that got conflated with the HPA efforts.

This particular crowd convinced themselves early, and others along the way that Trump is a 2A advocate and would EO away all the 2A things he could and pass bills on others with no delay. Hasn't happened. Won't happen. There may be some small token wins - but to think Trump cares about reversing the NFA, etc... Please! The man supports the Assault Weapons Ban.

But I digress, these thoughts were conflated with HPA by many in the 2A community and they sold themselves on it being a done deal, and then deciding to hold out on purchases for the HPA to pass. Hence the domino's started to fall.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 2:57:37 PM EDT
[#5]
So true.
The time it will take for Congress to get past all the current (meaning -in the news at the moment) issues will make for a long time until the HPA reaches the actual floors, if it even happens this year.  
I would love to be proven completely wrong about this.

But, also look at the 41F buyers poll on this site.  
Roughly 2/3 of the suppressor enthusiasts represented here.are holding off buying anything until ???
All the dedicated companies have to be feeling this.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 3:00:27 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Their biggest mistakes were chasing off Pappas and then less than a year later, Graham too.

The most successful cans in their lineup (save the Omega 30) were designed by those guys. Even the Omega is very similar to their designs, but with different materials and assembly.

Now, both Pappas and Graham have their own companies and are producing offerings that are effectively evolutionary upgrades to SilencerCo's cans.
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That says enough about a company when they're spinning off talent like that.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 3:00:34 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:

But, also look at the 41F buyers poll on this site.  
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41F did more to kill the NFA industry than people waiting on the HPA did.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 3:38:17 PM EDT
[#8]
I have heard nothing but great things about SiCo.  So do we hate them now or what?
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 3:42:09 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Their biggest mistakes were chasing off Pappas and then less than a year later, Graham too.

The most successful cans in their lineup (save the Omega 30) were designed by those guys. Even the Omega is very similar to their designs, but with different materials and assembly.

Now, both Pappas and Graham have their own companies and are producing offerings that are effectively evolutionary upgrades to SilencerCo's cans.
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With the limited knowledge I have on the subject, I'd agree

Nonetheless, I'm about to put a SiCO can in jail
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 3:54:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
So SilencerCo has become the laughing stock of the suppressor community lately.
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Laughing stock not for HPA, but for creating two of their biggest competitors, Dead Air & Rugged. For bringing on a documented business loser and losing divisions (SWR). For overhyped marketing campaigns and late to market products. Maybe they will recover, maybe they will not. It is still fixable but my guess is their best days are behind them. I think they have too many eggs in one basket right now.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 3:54:42 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
I have heard nothing but great things about SiCo.  So do we hate them now or what?
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Not hate, just watching their CEO run another company into the ground.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:02:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Lol, I can tell you approximately when they screwed up. It was somewhere between hiring a shitload of people and then having to fire a shitload of people. Healthy, stable companies don't fire a shitload of people.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:03:45 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
41F did more to kill the NFA industry than people waiting on the HPA did.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

But, also look at the 41F buyers poll on this site.  
41F did more to kill the NFA industry than people waiting on the HPA did.

Yep.  People generally don't like having $600-1000 tied up while they wait upwards of a year on actually being able to take their purchase home.  Times were coming down, then the BATFE decided they had to throw a wrench in the works with 41F.  I still feel there are advantages to having a trust, but now to do a form 1 or form 4, I have to get my WIFE fingerprinted and a passport photo of her, not just my own, which makes it a more complicated sell at home.  THEN throw in the fact that it would be 9-12 months before I could actually get anything from that $200 tax (since my next two stamps will probably be form 1's), and she's going to balk and prefer the money go to current concerns.  Remove suppressors from the NFA and I could probably get away with a decent .22 suppressor or moderately expensive handgun suppressor every few months.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:04:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

This particular crowd convinced themselves early, and others along the way that Trump is a 2A advocate and would EO away all the 2A things he could and pass bills on others with no delay. Hasn't happened. Won't happen. There may be some small token wins - but to think Trump cares about reversing the NFA, etc... Please! The man supports the Assault Weapons Ban.
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Do you think anyone thought in 1 month in office he was going to pass the HPA and Carry reciprocity??? I don't know a single person who thought that. Certainly NO ONE in the industry thought that. Nor has the ASA or SilencerCo said anything of the sort.Those guys have been saying at least ONE YEAR from introduction since day 1.

Plus Trump himself passes nothing. Congress does. Everyone knows that too. I know people are dumb, but not as dumb as you suggest. There is not a single post on any of the HPA related threads on this forum, that says anything like you are describing above.

Show one piece of evidence that ANYONE in the industry took this attitude. Or even someone on this forum. Doesn't exist. No one thought this was going to happen overnight. SilencerCo and the ASA are well aware of how a Bill becomes a Law. Bills that pass take an average of 212 days from introduction. Anything other than that is rare, and it certainly won't be pro-gun legislation that passes that fast.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:05:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Silencerco screwed up by wasting money on posh Maxim Vice launch parties, for mindless hipsters posing in magazine spreads with duck tape over their mouths, and that stupid hashtag #FightTheNoise crap.  Blame them for wasting R&D money on failed products like the Maxim9, the Rangefinder thingy, and Osprey Micro - which should have been called the Mini Salvo (but that's another story).  Blame them for starting the ASA, which has zero legislative or regulatory accomplishments to date despite multiple travel junkets and lobbying sprees in DC.

But for the slowdown in silencer sales you should blame 41P, not Silencerco.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:06:35 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
So true.
The time it will take for Congress to get past all the current (meaning -in the news at the moment) issues will make for a long time until the HPA reaches the actual floors, if it even happens this year.  
I would love to be proven completely wrong about this.
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That is NOT how Congress works. A bill can come through committee at any given time, nothing to do with Priority. It can also get rolled into other bills. Like in the Senate, the HPA is in the Finance Committee. Why? So it can get rolled into a Finance bill. Probably. So it can happen anytime. Nothing to do with priority, or what you saw on the news last night.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:08:04 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
I have heard nothing but great things about SiCo.  So do we hate them now or what?
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Absolutely Not. They have done nothing wrong. That is NOT what this is about. They had to layoff people to weather the storm for the next six months or so. End of story. Well, actually the story ends with the HPA passing by winter.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:09:07 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Blame them for wasting R&D money on failed products like the Maxim9
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The Maxim 9 is a failed product?
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:12:02 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Their biggest mistakes were chasing off Pappas and then less than a year later, Graham too.

The most successful cans in their lineup (save the Omega 30) were designed by those guys. Even the Omega is very similar to their designs, but with different materials and assembly.

Now, both Pappas and Graham have their own companies and are producing offerings that are effectively evolutionary upgrades to SilencerCo's cans.
View Quote

While I don't disagree, Dead Air and Rugged rifle cans don't do anything remarkably different than the hard use SilencerCo offerings. I'd really like to see Dead Air and Rugged produce a lighter weight lineup that doesn't have to be "no barrel restrictions" and "belt fed rated" to compete with the Omega and Harvester weight cans. Rimfire and pistol cans are a different story as I agree SilencerCo needs to update, but I assume that will come after the Maxim 9 is out in the wild.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:12:35 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
Silencerco screwed up by wasting money on posh Maxim Vice launch parties, for mindless hipsters posing in magazine spreads with duck tape over their mouths, and that stupid hashtag #FightTheNoise crap.  Blame them for wasting R&D money on failed products like the Maxim9, the Rangefinder thingy, and Osprey Micro - which should have been called the Mini Salvo (but that's another story).  Blame them for starting the ASA, which has zero legislative or regulatory accomplishments to date despite multiple travel junkets and lobbying sprees in DC.

But for the slowdown in silencer sales you should blame 41P, not Silencerco.
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Maxim9 failure?

ASA - Good people fighting the good fight. They are doing things that individuals, dealers, distributors and manufacturers don't have time to do themselves.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:13:30 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:

While I don't disagree, Dead Air and Rugged rifle cans don't do anything remarkably different than the hard use SilencerCo offerings. I'd really like to see Dead Air and Rugged produce a lighter weight lineup that doesn't have to be "no barrel restrictions" and "belt fed rated" to compete with the Omega and Harvester weight cans. Rimfire and pistol cans are a different story as I agree SilencerCo needs to update, but I assume that will come after the Maxim 9 is out in the wild.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Their biggest mistakes were chasing off Pappas and then less than a year later, Graham too.

The most successful cans in their lineup (save the Omega 30) were designed by those guys. Even the Omega is very similar to their designs, but with different materials and assembly.

Now, both Pappas and Graham have their own companies and are producing offerings that are effectively evolutionary upgrades to SilencerCo's cans.

While I don't disagree, Dead Air and Rugged rifle cans don't do anything remarkably different than the hard use SilencerCo offerings. I'd really like to see Dead Air and Rugged produce a lighter weight lineup that doesn't have to be "no barrel restrictions" and "belt fed rated" to compete with the Omega and Harvester weight cans. Rimfire and pistol cans are a different story as I agree SilencerCo needs to update, but I assume that will come after the Maxim 9 is out in the wild.
Who was responsible for designing most of SiCo's cans, and where are they now?
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:21:46 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
Silencerco screwed up by wasting money on posh Maxim Vice launch parties, for mindless hipsters posing in magazine spreads with duck tape over their mouths, and that stupid hashtag #FightTheNoise crap.  Blame them for wasting R&D money on failed products like the Maxim9, the Rangefinder thingy, and Osprey Micro - which should have been called the Mini Salvo (but that's another story).  Blame them for starting the ASA, which has zero legislative or regulatory accomplishments to date despite multiple travel junkets and lobbying sprees in DC.

But for the slowdown in silencer sales you should blame 41P, not Silencerco.
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Seriously. It so happens those marketing campaigns, like them or not, are what made SilencerCo #1 in the industry. They are the first Suppressor company to EVER have a serious marketing budget and really try to reach out to the enthusiasts. I think they were super successful. And the Maxim9? Yeah it is really terrible that they designed and manufactured a gun ion house. At least they actually make their own products and many of the parts themselves in house. pretty cool if you ask me.

The ASA. Why badmouth a group of guys who spend everyday building awareness for this issue? By organizing the way they did, they have access to people you and I don't, and can have a direct affect on those people. There is no reason to badmouth these guys at all. You talk about them as though they are wasting tax payer dollars. They get their funding from people who own businesses in the firearms industry. So it's not your money they are spending, you have nothing to worry about.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:21:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Maxim9 is not failed, yet.

It is a niche product, in high demand by the small number of folks who want it bad. Once they have it, demand will fall dramatically. Hope they do not ramp up production based on the early sales numbers. it will not sustain the company or lead them out of their stall.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:25:04 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
For overhyped marketing campaigns and late to market products.
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Other than the Maxim, what other silencers were late to market? I remember being able to purchase Saker 556, Saker 762, Harvester, and Salvo almost the same time they were announced. I've always thought they were very smart to have product either on a Form 3 to the dealer or actually sitting at the dealer when they announce new stuff. Am I just spoiled having Capitol Armory as a dealer? For the 2017 releases Capitol had the Saker ASR lineup and the Omega 45K ready to purchase the same day as the release. Not looking for a fight but maybe they didn't do so well on releases prior to the Saker 556???
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:26:20 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
Seriously. It so happens those marketing campaigns, like them or not, are what made SilencerCo #1 in the industry. They are the first Suppressor company to EVER have a serious marketing budget and really try to reach out to the enthusiasts
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Quoted:
Seriously. It so happens those marketing campaigns, like them or not, are what made SilencerCo #1 in the industry. They are the first Suppressor company to EVER have a serious marketing budget and really try to reach out to the enthusiasts


AAC/KB was by far the biggest silencer marketer ever. Many, many major initiatives, most more successful than they ever imagined.

Quoted:
I think they were super successful.


Yep, were.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:26:23 PM EDT
[#26]
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Do you think anyone thought in 1 month in office he was going to pass the HPA and Carry reciprocity??? I don't know a single person who thought that. Certainly NO ONE in the industry thought that. Nor has the ASA or SilencerCo said anything of the sort.Those guys have been saying at least ONE YEAR from introduction since day 1.

Plus Trump himself passes nothing. Congress does. Everyone knows that too. I know people are dumb, but not as dumb as you suggest. There is not a single post on any of the HPA related threads on this forum, that says anything like you are describing above.

Show one piece of evidence that ANYONE in the industry took this attitude. Or even someone on this forum. Doesn't exist. No one thought this was going to happen overnight. SilencerCo and the ASA are well aware of how a Bill becomes a Law. Bills that pass take an average of 212 days from introduction. Anything other than that is rare, and it certainly won't be pro-gun legislation that passes that fast.
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I didn't see anything on this site about that, but I only read technical forums - this is as political of a posting as I have read/been engaged on here.

Read the comments on thetruthaboutguns.com for examples, I am not inclined to go find them - don't care enough. But many said, for example,  EOs would be signed by trump on day one to reverse any 2A related EOs that obama put in place. That hasn't happened and we're way past day one.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:30:01 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:

Other than the Maxim, what other silencers were late to market?
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The Sparrow replacement is late. Too much of their product line is stale and late to be re-freshed.

This is a market where people want the latest. You have to be constantly innovating.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:31:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Where SiCo screwed up you ask? See below.

Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:32:19 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


I didn't see anything on this site about that, but I only read technical forums - this is as political of a posting as I have read/been engaged on here.

Read the comments on thetruthaboutguns.com for examples, I am not inclined to go find them - don't care enough. But many said, for example,  EOs would be signed by trump on day one to reverse any 2A related EOs that obama put in place. That hasn't happened and we're way past day one.
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The most major one actually did already. While not one of the original executive orders you are talking about. None of those really amounted to a hill of beans. But this one did:
Senate Votes to Block Obama Social Security Administration Gun Ban; Legislation Heads to President Trump

I also read the TTAG article you are referring. It is an opinion piece. First these things can't be done by Executive Order. Very little can be on 2A. Obama went to the limit. No one expected anything of consequence to happen in the first 100 days on 2A. The author cannot support that view with a single quote from anyone of relative importance in all of this. It is a fluff nonsense opinion piece. And I LOVE TTAG. I just don't always agree with their opnion pieces.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:32:45 PM EDT
[#30]
OK, you guys are right - the jury is still out on Maxim 9 sales numbers.  So it hasn't proved to be a failure yet, despite Yankee Marshal's vid lol.

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Quoted:
...The ASA. Why badmouth a group of guys who spend everyday building awareness for this issue? By organizing the way they did, they have access to people you and I don't, and can have a direct affect on those people. There is no reason to badmouth these guys at all. You talk about them as though they are wasting tax payer dollars. They get their funding from people who own businesses in the firearms industry. So it's not your money they are spending, you have nothing to worry about.
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I don't mean to badmouth the people of the ASA as much as I feel bad to the hardworking engineers who just got laid off due to budget dollars being prioritized on things like ASA.  But that was obviously and executive decision that company heads have made and will now have to live with.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:36:46 PM EDT
[#31]
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I think they have too many eggs in one basket right now.
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That basket being the Maxim pistol?
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:38:10 PM EDT
[#32]
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Where SiCo screwed up you ask? See below.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2786/32998000116_f502c1acb4_c.jpg
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Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:39:42 PM EDT
[#33]
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That basket being the Maxim pistol?
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Yep, pretty much the only product on display at SHOT17. Dozens of them, everybody finger-fucking them. The regular silencer line was off in the corner like an abandoned step child.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:40:11 PM EDT
[#34]
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OK, you guys are right - the jury is still out on Maxim 9 sales numbers.  So it hasn't proved to be a failure yet, despite Yankee Marshal's vid lol.



I don't mean to badmouth the people of the ASA as much as I feel bad to the hardworking engineers who just got laid off due to budget dollars being prioritized on things like ASA.  But that was obviously and executive decision that company heads have made and will now have to live with.
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Honestly none of us really know what happened at SilencerCo. It just seems obvious that 41P + the wait for HPA will lead to tough times for SILENCER ONLY manufacturers. To survive you have to scale back. You can't remain on all cylinders when products aren't moving. If you owned SilencerCo, you would HAVE to do the same thing. The other alternative is to go out of business in 4 months. Seems to me they didn't have a choice. They certainly didn't WANT to do that, they HAD to.

That said, they are a Privately owned company and they do not owe us an explanation. That is between them and their employees.

I for one would rather see them scale back and weather the storm, then come out swinging again when it passes. Much better than going out of business. A least some people still have jobs there, better than none.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:47:11 PM EDT
[#35]
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Who was responsible for designing most of SiCo's cans, and where are they now?
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That's why I discussed Dead Air and Rugged rifle cans in my post, because that's where those responsible are now. I don't disagree that much of the old lineup has the fingerprints of the people below all over them but where did that influence stop? Is the Omega post Mike, Todd, Gary, and Henry? What about the Harvester, Salvo 12, Maxim 9, Omega 9K and 45K? I'm excited to see an expanded lineup from Dead Air and Rugged that include lighter weight rifle cans, if that is part of their plans.

Dead Air = Mike Pappas, Todd Magee, and Gary Hughes.
Rugged = Henry Graham.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 4:57:27 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:
Silencerco screwed up by wasting money on posh Maxim Vice launch parties, for mindless hipsters posing in magazine spreads with duck tape over their mouths, and that stupid hashtag #FightTheNoise crap.  Blame them for wasting R&D money on failed products like the Maxim9, the Rangefinder thingy, and Osprey Micro - which should have been called the Mini Salvo (but that's another story).  Blame them for starting the ASA, which has zero legislative or regulatory accomplishments to date despite multiple travel junkets and lobbying sprees in DC.
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I don't know if they screwed up, but I do know when I got their "fight the noise" or whatever it was huge ass "catalog" that had nothing but a bunch of pictures of people in it, I thought to myself exactly how much money did they spend to put this together.

Yeah, it looked real cool and nice, but after flipping the pages, I threw it right into the trash can thinking to myself "man, these guys have money to burn".  I thought the whole thing was kind of stupid.

That said, love my Silencerco cans.

I would be lying if I didn't ask myself after reading up all on JS as Silencerco, exactly what possessed the company to elevate the man into that position?  Not certain between fact and fiction reading up on googlefoo, but the guy really seems not to work well with leading companies into substained profitability.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 5:03:37 PM EDT
[#37]
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That is NOT how Congress works. A bill can come through committee at any given time, nothing to do with Priority. It can also get rolled into other bills. Like in the Senate, the HPA is in the Finance Committee. Why? So it can get rolled into a Finance bill  Because it eliminates a tax.. Probably. So it can happen anytime. Nothing to do with priority, or what you saw on the news last night.
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FIFY.  It's in Finance because it eliminates a tax.  It may get attached to another tax-related bill, but it may not.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 5:05:11 PM EDT
[#38]
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Laughing stock not for HPA, but for creating two of their biggest competitors, Dead Air & Rugged. For bringing on a documented business loser. For overhyped marketing campaigns and late to market products. Maybe they will recover, maybe they will not. It is still fixable but my guess is their best days are behind them. I think they have too many eggs in one basket right now.
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No, they're being called out for everything I said they were.  The rest of the responses in this thread may be true, but they are irrelevant to my question, which was about HPA.  SilencerCo is being skewered for forecasting near-instant HPA passage, both on social media and forums.  For example, Sean Cody, the gun-trust lawyer, wrote "it looks like Mr. Waldron is finally admitting that the HPA isnt as done a deal as they led us to believe. Maybe they should have fought to defund 41F before it was implemented on July 13, 2016 instead of telling everyone the Hearing Protection Act was a done deal" http://texassilencerguntrust.com/big-post/?Id=1464103390298489

He also said "Since 41F was annouced the mantra from SiCo and Waldron has been that is a done deal. The photo ops with Trump, the pushing of the "first 100 days" will see the HPA passed.  SiCo and Waldron have been the cheer leaders for irrational exuberance regarding the HPA. They have been the ones at the forefront of the HPA will pass team."

I asked him for sources.  He has provided none.

The Hitler YT video posted elsewhere in this sub specifically calls out SilencerCo for promising the 100-day timeline.

Please take the non-HPA related conversations somewhere else.  
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 5:23:44 PM EDT
[#39]
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No, they're being called out for everything I said they were.
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No, they're being called out for everything I said they were.


Well not by me.

HPA is the one thing I am not critical of them for.


Quoted:


Please take the non-HPA related conversations somewhere else.


No.

Next time choose your thread titles better.

We are doing exactly what you asked  ("Show me where SilencerCo screwed up").
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 5:39:54 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:

That's why I discussed Dead Air and Rugged rifle cans in my post, because that's where those responsible are now. I don't disagree that much of the old lineup has the fingerprints of the people below all over them but where did that influence stop? Is the Omega post Mike, Todd, Gary, and Henry? What about the Harvester, Salvo 12, Maxim 9, Omega 9K and 45K? I'm excited to see an expanded lineup from Dead Air and Rugged that include lighter weight rifle cans, if that is part of their plans.

Dead Air = Mike Pappas, Todd Magee, and Gary Hughes.
Rugged = Henry Graham.
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Who was responsible for designing most of SiCo's cans, and where are they now?

That's why I discussed Dead Air and Rugged rifle cans in my post, because that's where those responsible are now. I don't disagree that much of the old lineup has the fingerprints of the people below all over them but where did that influence stop? Is the Omega post Mike, Todd, Gary, and Henry? What about the Harvester, Salvo 12, Maxim 9, Omega 9K and 45K? I'm excited to see an expanded lineup from Dead Air and Rugged that include lighter weight rifle cans, if that is part of their plans.

Dead Air = Mike Pappas, Todd Magee, and Gary Hughes.
Rugged = Henry Graham.


I would argue that the influence doesn't really stop, nor should it be expected to end. If you cut any of those cans open, you'll see design cues that appear in other SilencerCo cans. That's actually pretty normal for the industry and makes sense from both a design/development perspective as well as a machining one.

The real question is why would I buy one of SilencerCo's cans over a Dead Air or Rugged product in the same category? The latter usually perform better, offer more modularity, and have better mounting solutions.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 5:43:52 PM EDT
[#41]
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Next time choose your thread titles better.
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Point taken and title revised.  Post 1 posits question quite clearly.

So SilencerCo has become the laughing stock of the suppressor community lately. Or at least in some circles. One contention is that they went full retard on HPA, and thus are responsible for shooting their own sales in the foot.

I just went back through every email SilencerCo sent me, from before the HPA was originally introduced to today. Nowhere do I see anything close to resembling the balls-to-the-wall-HPA-100-days attitude they're being accused of having. I watched all 38 minutes of the Waldron/Trump interview. Ain't there either.

So would someone mind showing me where SiCo/Waldron made the statements they're being accused of?
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 5:59:57 PM EDT
[#42]
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Silencerco screwed up by wasting money on posh Maxim Vice launch parties, for mindless hipsters posing in magazine spreads with duck tape over their mouths, and that stupid hashtag #FightTheNoise crap.  Blame them for wasting R&D money on failed products like the Maxim9, the Rangefinder thingy, and Osprey Micro - which should have been called the Mini Salvo (but that's another story).  Blame them for starting the ASA, which has zero legislative or regulatory accomplishments to date despite multiple travel junkets and lobbying sprees in DC.

But for the slowdown in silencer sales you should blame 41P, not Silencerco.
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What's wrong with the Radius?
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:00:30 PM EDT
[#43]
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What's wrong with the Radius?
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Quoted:
Silencerco screwed up by wasting money on posh Maxim Vice launch parties, for mindless hipsters posing in magazine spreads with duck tape over their mouths, and that stupid hashtag #FightTheNoise crap.  Blame them for wasting R&D money on failed products like the Maxim9, the Rangefinder thingy, and Osprey Micro - which should have been called the Mini Salvo (but that's another story).  Blame them for starting the ASA, which has zero legislative or regulatory accomplishments to date despite multiple travel junkets and lobbying sprees in DC.

But for the slowdown in silencer sales you should blame 41P, not Silencerco.
What's wrong with the Radius?
Yeah, that thing seems pretty slick to me.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:07:38 PM EDT
[#44]
So you ask a question sure to illicit emotional reactions from people, don't get the answers that you like, and then go back and edit the title and initial post of the thread.  Like 20 posts later.  

Pretty sure this isn't going to go the way you wanted it to.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:10:01 PM EDT
[#45]
There there are those of us who don't care about all of this.

We have two CNC machining centers and make titanium suppressors.

We are waiting for the Navy to finish an eval of our products.  If they pick our suppressor, we should have a nice little SOCOM contract.

Other than that we are very small and can deal with whatever happens.

We also are a retail LGS and indoor range op.

People are not buying now because they do think that the tax will go away.

Who knows?  Nobody.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:10:48 PM EDT
[#46]
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What's wrong with the Radius?
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Another niche product, and way overpriced at that.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:11:51 PM EDT
[#47]
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Other than the Maxim, what other silencers were late to market? I remember being able to purchase Saker 556, Saker 762, Harvester, and Salvo almost the same time they were announced. I've always thought they were very smart to have product either on a Form 3 to the dealer or actually sitting at the dealer when they announce new stuff. Am I just spoiled having Capitol Armory as a dealer? For the 2017 releases Capitol had the Saker ASR lineup and the Omega 45K ready to purchase the same day as the release. Not looking for a fight but maybe they didn't do so well on releases prior to the Saker 556???
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Bro,

They took FOREVER to ship the Saker 556.  I ordered one at SHOT 2012- when they were introduced- and it didn't even make it to my dealer until August of 2013. That's a year and a half.  They've done better with NPI's recently, but let's not break out the rose colored lenses quite yet.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:23:45 PM EDT
[#48]
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Another niche product, and way overpriced at that.
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I would love for it to be cheaper, but is anyone else selling a mounted range finder? 
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:26:13 PM EDT
[#49]
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Yeah, that thing seems pretty slick to me.
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What's wrong with the Radius?
Yeah, that thing seems pretty slick to me.

As said above, too niche. I don't have one rifle to dedicate a $1000 rangefinder to (seems you have to rezero the rangefinder when you mount it on a different platform). Myy Sig Kilo 2000 will do pretty much everything I want/need with similar performance at ~1/3 the price.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 6:27:53 PM EDT
[#50]
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I would love for it to be cheaper, but is anyone else selling a mounted range finder? 
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Hence why it is a niche product.
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