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Posted: 1/30/2017 12:45:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Take a look at Bootleg. PWS sister company with an adjustable carrier that can be adjusted without removing the carrier. I've got one on order to try out in a 10.5 SBR. I may be wrong but I think the Gemtech is also made by PWS. I did see PWS holds a patent for adjustable carrier.
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Posted: 1/30/2017 2:56:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take a look at Bootleg. PWS sister company with an adjustable carrier that can be adjusted without removing the carrier. I've got one on order to try out in a 10.5 SBR. I may be wrong but I think the Gemtech is also made by PWS. I did see PWS holds a patent for adjustable carrier. It is made by PWS. Both companies are close to each other as well. I have the bootleg carrier and it's really nice as a normal carrier. I am close to getting my can approved that will go on my 11.5" sbr. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 3:07:45 PM EDT
[#3]
I have one but haven't used it much at all.
It functions and seems to be very well made, I just haven't don't a lot of experimenting with the 2 settings and cans off and on and what not. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 6:40:56 PM EDT
[#4]
For a rifle that will be 100% dedicated to suppressed use, is there a benefit to the bootlegs multiple settings as opposed to the gemtech just having 2?
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Posted: 1/30/2017 7:01:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For a rifle that will be 100% dedicated to suppressed use, is there a benefit to the bootlegs multiple settings as opposed to the gemtech just having 2? More options provides more tunability. If your rifle short strokes on the suppressed setting you could open up to one of the intermediate settings. For me it was a no brainer: adjustable without removing, 4 settings, and DVOR had a deal a week or so ago on them for $158. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 1:33:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Does a 16" middy even need it?
Mine runs great with its stock FA NiB bcg. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 2:18:35 AM EDT
[#7]
Not too worried about carrier speed as much as just keeping gas out of my face and as I understand it the suppressed carriers channel the gas out of the ejection port so there's none (or way less) escaping out every other exit route which means less gas in the face.
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Posted: 1/31/2017 3:23:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is made by PWS. Both companies are close to each other as well. I have the bootleg carrier and it's really nice as a normal carrier. I am close to getting my can approved that will go on my 11.5" sbr. The design of the various PWS-made carriers - adjustable or not - seems to be really underappreciated. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 7:15:43 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm happy with mine. 100% use on a 11.5" and gemtech trek. I haven't tried it on the unsupressed setting or on my 16" rifle. Worth it to me since I wanted to keep my front site too
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Posted: 1/31/2017 7:39:53 AM EDT
[#10]
I have two of the Gemtech carriers that see a good bit of use. No issues at all and they work as designed. I'm not aware of issues with the first batch, I'll have to go look and see what that's about.
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Posted: 2/2/2017 6:19:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have two of the Gemtech carriers that see a good bit of use. No issues at all and they work as designed. I'm not aware of issues with the first batch, I'll have to go look and see what that's about. I have to say, I found where some people were having some issues. One of those issues was with the carrier dragging or hanging up on the feed lips when using gen M3 pmags and shooting mag monopod. I use Lancers and older pmags so I haven't seen the problem, but I did check the M3 pmags and sure enough, the carrier is dragging the feed lips noticeably more [than a standard carrier] when using the mag as a monopod. For me, the standard carriers drag lightly on the M3 feed lips, but there's definitely a lot more drag with the Gemtech. I'm confident that the mags I normally use work fine but this isn't good...I don't like having to worry about which mags, especially which pmags, might cause a problem. So I'm going to contact Gemtech about this and see what they say. Right now, it doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. |
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Posted: 2/2/2017 8:29:58 PM EDT
[#12]
I have one on a 14.5" with a FSB I'm too lazy to change. I have a 7.62 Saker on the end. I love it. No problems. It made a big difference with gas and recoil. The retaining hole for the cotter pin in the BCG was the tightest out of any BC I have. I have to really work to get the cotter pin back in when I reassemble it,..that's my only complaint.
No pics of the bcg but its a perfect solution for suppressed FSB rifles. on the left 
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Posted: 2/7/2017 9:46:31 PM EDT
[#13]
^^^
Diggin that setup! Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I'm gonna be grabbing one. Seems like a cheaper option than a SCAR 16L lol |
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Posted: 2/8/2017 2:50:51 AM EDT
[#14]
I ran into the same issue. Gen 2 pmags ran flawless the first time out with a sdn6 on a 16inch upper. The gemtech carrier would catch on the gen3 pmags and or cause more resistance with the bolt than the gen 2. I also had another underlying issue with bad gas rings on the bolt. Replaced rings and the gen3 pmags ran just fine suppressed on suppressed setting. Standard buffer and no gas in the face but still feel like the gen 2 mags ran alot smoother
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Posted: 2/9/2017 1:50:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Interesting. I have a few Pmags but most are 40 rounders and I don't use them for much beyond goofing off. Any issues with D&H mags? Have about 100 of those
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Posted: 2/9/2017 7:40:03 AM EDT
[#16]
When I checked various mags with mine, all of the GI mags seemed ok. The only mags I found a problem with were M3 Pmags.
BTW, I sent my carriers in to Gemtech per their direction after I contacted them about this. Still waiting to hear back. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 3:18:46 AM EDT
[#17]
So heres a followup question: What Bolt Assembly are you guys running with your suppressed carriers?
I'm leaning towards a DD, which is $69 or a BCM which costs $80, and I'm leaning towards the DD since its cheaper and I've already got a lot of BCM uppers and parts but the only DD product I own is a pair of fixed rear sights, which I'm a big fan of. But if you guys have other suggestions, I'm definitely open to hear you out. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 9:43:14 PM EDT
[#18]
I run a Colt bolt in the Gemtech carrier in a 12" LaRue stealth YHM M2 suppressed upper on my M16A1.
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Posted: 3/15/2017 12:33:47 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm using an AIM back up bolt kit in my Gemtech and it has been flawless.
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Posted: 3/15/2017 1:25:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not too worried about carrier speed as much as just keeping gas out of my face and as I understand it the suppressed carriers channel the gas out of the ejection port so there's none (or way less) escaping out every other exit route which means less gas in the face. If you're mainly worried about eating gas just do the RTV trick and drill hole in CH trick. Almost free and effective. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 2:55:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Do you even know if you need one?
My 10.5" SBR (only AR I shoot suppressed) is not gassy at all. Don't buy it if you don't need it. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 2:12:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I run a Colt bolt in the Gemtech carrier in a 12" LaRue stealth YHM M2 suppressed upper on my M16A1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I run a Colt bolt in the Gemtech carrier in a 12" LaRue stealth YHM M2 suppressed upper on my M16A1. Quoted:
Do you even know if you need one? My 10.5" SBR (only AR I shoot suppressed) is not gassy at all. Don't buy it if you don't need it. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:38:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're mainly worried about eating gas just do the RTV trick and drill hole in CH trick. Almost free and effective. The RTV trick only handles half the problem--gas that hits you in the face. I usually use the term "blowback" for this. The other half is what I call "back pressure". This is the actual pressure pulse that is so high that it's measurable as sound. The terms are used interchangeably in the industry, but I usually differentiate because there's more going on there than people realize and it's hard to describe without proper terminology. Anyway, even if it's not gassy to you, the adjustable carrier (or even a really good gas block like Superlative Arms makes) will allow the action to stay closed long enough to let the pressure drop more and make it less bitey to your ear. It's quite measurable with sound equipment. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 7:40:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They actually work pretty well. I like the Bootleg one better because there's more adjustability to it. The RTV trick only handles half the problem--gas that hits you in the face. I usually use the term "blowback" for this. The other half is what I call "back pressure". This is the actual pressure pulse that is so high that it's measurable as sound. The terms are used interchangeably in the industry, but I usually differentiate because there's more going on there than people realize and it's hard to describe without proper terminology. Anyway, even if it's not gassy to you, the adjustable carrier (or even a really good gas block like Superlative Arms makes) will allow the action to stay closed long enough to let the pressure drop more and make it less bitey to your ear. It's quite measurable with sound equipment. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 8:30:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Ya the reduced wear and tear on the rifle was one of the original selling points for me.
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Posted: 3/16/2017 8:32:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Im using a Sharps NP3 enhanced bolt in mine no problemas.
Do the rtv trick |
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Posted: 3/28/2017 1:41:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Kinda leaning towards the Geissele CH. Been wanting one for awhile and the raised lip in the back serves the same purpose as the RTV silicone.
Right now Im just rockin an $8 CH I got from PSA so maybe the RTV makes more sense. 
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Posted: 3/28/2017 3:24:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kinda leaning towards the Geissele CH. Been wanting one for awhile and the raised lip in the back serves the same purpose as the RTV silicone. Right now Im just rockin an $8 CH I got from PSA so maybe the RTV makes more sense. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 2:14:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Ill admit I haven't shot my AR suppressed yet. I did shoot my PWS MK220 suppressed and it had a ton of gas and my VEPR also produced unpleasant amounts of gas. However, I didn't bother playing with the gas setting on the PWS since it still cycled perfectly. Knowing what I know now, I shoulda tinkered with it but back then I just didn't know as much about suppressors.
However, my AR that I am focusing on has an old school front sight post and thus an adjustable gas block is not an option. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 8:01:21 AM EDT
[#30]
I get the front sight issue. And so the SCG route to taming gas, which will help with gas in the face.
A common misperception, which I think you understand, is that a rifle which functions unsuppressed and suppressed with no change to the gas system is significantly over gassed suppressed, despite perfect function. That and the fact that tamping down gas has many significant benefits beyond function, including a cleaner, cooler running rifle, reduced wear and tear, longer bolt life, longer brass life, reduced felt recoil, smoother perceived recoil, less gas in the face. Moreover, if you deal with gas via an adjustable block or SBG every lower can be set up the same to function with any upper as opposed to X upper only working with Y lower because of spring and/or buffer variation. JPK |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 10:55:17 AM EDT
[#31]
^^^^ That does make life easier lol
I should mention that the reason Im using this type of FSP equipped upper is because that PSA Premium upper is the cheapest one i have. I just moved into student housing and opted to only bring a single AR with me, the cheapest one I have- in case my place gets broken into and I have to replace the gun. I do have a few free floated uppers where AGB's either are already there (like on my LWRC) or where I could easily install one like on a few of my BCMs. The rest of my ARs though are also FSP type uppers (BCMs and PSA CHF's) and most future acquisitions will also be FSP types. I just love the look and timelessness of them. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 4:38:27 PM EDT
[#32]
If you are thinking of using an adjustable carrier group on a bunch of uppers, you might want to go with the Bootleg version. Made by the same company as the Gemtech, but four adjustment positions rather than just two.
JPK |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 11:33:28 AM EDT
[#33]
I just went back and forth on this issue for a couple weeks. Since my rifle in question is a 10.5" dedicated suppressed rifle in 6.8spc, I couldn't decide on the Bootleg for the more agjustments or the Gemtech?
I asked several places and got all the usual answers from why bother just clean your gun more often to Gemtech or Bootleg is the only one to have. My reason for wanting to try one was I'm running full bore ammo in the gun and wanted to reduce some of the overgassing and fouling inside the rifle. I know with a can they are just gonna run dirtier! Period! But if I can slow down the fouling and the beating on the weapon, why not try one or the other? Anyway, I ordered the Gemtech yesterday due to finding it on sale with free shpg. Should be here next week and will report an honest and unbiased opinion. |
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Posted: 3/31/2017 7:36:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just went back and forth on this issue for a couple weeks. Since my rifle in question is a 10.5" dedicated suppressed rifle in 6.8spc, I couldn't decide on the Bootleg for the more agjustments or the Gemtech? I asked several places and got all the usual answers from why bother just clean your gun more often to Gemtech or Bootleg is the only one to have. My reason for wanting to try one was I'm running full bore ammo in the gun and wanted to reduce some of the overgassing and fouling inside the rifle. I know with a can they are just gonna run dirtier! Period! But if I can slow down the fouling and the beating on the weapon, why not try one or the other? Anyway, I ordered the Gemtech yesterday due to finding it on sale with free shpg. Should be here next week and will report an honest and unbiased opinion. With 556 I just don't see that much adjustment (4 options) being necessary over the gemtechs 2. With 6.8 I probably woulda opted for the bootleg though. But hey what do I know I've never shot 6.8spl and I trust your experience with it above my own wild speculation lol |
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Posted: 3/31/2017 9:01:40 PM EDT
[#35]
I shot ~75 rounds today with my Gemtech BCG. First several shots were literally gas free. As I shot more it would kick out a little more gas. The worst I experienced was still similar to what you get with a Gasbuster charging handle. I'm pretty pleased.
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:01:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shot ~75 rounds today with my Gemtech BCG. First several shots were literally gas free. As I shot more it would kick out a little more gas. The worst I experienced was still similar to what you get with a Gasbuster charging handle. I'm pretty pleased. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:49:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Outdoors
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:02:24 AM EDT
[#38]
Have a gemtech in my DD MK18 and it's a noticeable difference running it in suppressed mode, much less gas and proper ejection.
That being said, my next one will be a bootleg because it can be adjusted without pulling it out of the gun unlike the Gemtech. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 10:36:54 AM EDT
[#39]
About that Bootleg carrier...
I don't mind that the Gemtech has to be pulled in order to switch the setting. But I'm curious, how do the settings on the Bootleg compare? Are the min and max settings about the same as the settings on the Gemtech, with two in between? Does the Bootleg limit more than the Gemtech on any of its settings? |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:44:47 PM EDT
[#40]
I also just put a GemTech in my DD MK18. I only ran 40 rounds through it at an indoor range yesterday (didn't have time for the outdoor range), but it ran very well. With the standard carrier it was hitting pretty hard and ejecting to one o'clock. The GemTech really smoothed it out, and it is ejecting at three o'clock.
I may look at the bootleg for another rifle. I wasn't aware that it existed until now. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 2:35:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
About that Bootleg carrier... I don't mind that the Gemtech has to be pulled in order to switch the setting. But I'm curious, how do the settings on the Bootleg compare? Are the min and max settings about the same as the settings on the Gemtech, with two in between? Does the Bootleg limit more than the Gemtech on any of its settings? I have a Gemtech in a 11.5 & it locks back on the S setting (with no can) would be nice to get some more restriction in there. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:07:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Thought I'd post an update:
Just finished ordering a bootleg carrier, a DD bolt assembly and a JP enhanced gas ring. Will be curious to see how it all works together. This is going in a PSA Premium AR (for now) and will be working with a Silencerco Specwar 556 flash hider and a Specwar 7.62 can. Itll probably be 2 weeks before everything has arrived but I will definitely let you guys know how it all works out. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 9:04:47 AM EDT
[#43]
I've been running one for a year with several thousand rounds through a 10.5" fa M16. It slows the cyclic rate down, and let's the gun run a lot smoother with a lot more control, and significantly reduced recoil and no gas in the face. Noticeable difference on semi auto suppressed AR also. I have two carriers with plans to purchase another one.
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Posted: 4/14/2017 10:00:48 PM EDT
[#44]
I have read elsewhere, but cannot confirm, that the Gemtech carrier's suppressed setting limits the gas more than the Bootleg carrier's most restrictive settings.
On the general topic of the carriers - from personal experience, the Gemtech works fine on a 12.5" middy. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 6:48:22 PM EDT
[#45]
The only thing I noticed different was the bolt did not lock open on last round in supressed setting but did in unsupressed setting.
Both settings were: .300 BO, 220 grain subs 16" barrel Pistol length gas system SiCo Omega Spikes T2 buffer Apparently just a touch undergassed with the Gemtech on the supressed setting. I guess the easiest fix is to try a lighter buffer... |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:47:15 PM EDT
[#46]
I have a bootleg carrier due in tomorrow. It's going in a BA 11.5" SBR thats a bit over gassed when suppressed. It's fine w/o a can (H3 buffer and carbine spring) and with a Sandman-S the gas is manageable but it's just harsh with a Sandman-L. Will report in when I can get some range time with the carrier. Maybe I'll bring my 14.5" along and see how it runs with it.
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Posted: 4/22/2017 10:35:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Everything is here now. Will be taking it to the range sometime in the next week or two and doing some testing.
http://imgur.com/a/qLSOx |
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Posted: 5/21/2017 2:06:26 PM EDT
[#48]
I did a quick test today to make a decision regarding what bolt carrier will live inside a particular suppressed AR. I had temporarily went back to the LMT enhanced carrier in this gun until I learned more about potential issues with the Gemtech carrier and gen 3 pmags. I decided that since I don't even use gen 3 pmags normally, I'm just not going to worry about that problem. So I shot the gun today back to back with the two carriers, leaving everything else the same.
Even though the LMT enhanced carrier helps some, it really doesn't compare to limiting the gas via the Gemtech carrier. Ejection was around 2:00 with the former, and 4:00 with the latter. With the Gemtech carrier, it cycles much smoother and I can't even detect any gas coming out the back end of the receiver through a string of rapid fire. FWIW, I also tried the Gemtech set to unsuppressed (with suppressor on the gun) and it cycled more harshly than the LMT enhanced carrier did, but no real surprise there. Anyway, the Gemtech carrier is going to stay in this gun now because it is always suppressed and I don't want to mess with gas blocks (MRP upper and I don't want to press the factory gas block off). |
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Posted: 5/21/2017 2:55:11 PM EDT
[#49]
I have the GemTech BC in my 11.5" PSA freedom upper using the PSA bolt. This is a gassy upper to begin with but shooting it suppressed with the BC set on the suppressed setting it's the softest shooting rifle I own. I highly recommend it although the Bootleg looks interesting. I took this rifle to a carbine class shooting un suppressed with the BC on the regular setting and it ran like a raped ape.
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Posted: 5/22/2017 12:28:39 AM EDT
[#50]
To anyone with experience: my question is- if I have one GemTech carrier I plan on swapping between four rifles, will I want to install each rifle's currently used bolt in the carrier for use in that specific gun?
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