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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:33:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it's about the long game. You get your prints (and I think photo) taken once at the kiosk. Now Silencer Shop has them on file. The next time you want a silencer from Silencer Shop, you point - click - and buy and Silencer Shop already has everything on file. No more having to go get another set of prints taken. The whole Powered By process keeps on rolling and 41F's inconvenience becomes less so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions 
Because it's about the long game. You get your prints (and I think photo) taken once at the kiosk. Now Silencer Shop has them on file. The next time you want a silencer from Silencer Shop, you point - click - and buy and Silencer Shop already has everything on file. No more having to go get another set of prints taken. The whole Powered By process keeps on rolling and 41F's inconvenience becomes less so. I guess in my head I was planning on doing multiple sets of prints at a time at the "office".. I thought the big seller was faster times, but if its for their convenience that makes sense or if we could E-FILE F4's. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:44:03 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm interested in baring about the dollar amount being invested
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Posted: 7/12/2016 2:45:02 AM EDT
[#3]
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He already indicated he was getting one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There are sure allot of Texas locations on that list. Paging DogtownTom, is the Plano location you? Paul, I hate I didn't see you listed. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 6:01:08 AM EDT
[#4]
As a reminder, you can still use your favorite dealer to buy cans and then go to another dealer to complete the Kiosk information. And since your prints are on file, this is a one-time event.
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Posted: 7/12/2016 7:44:32 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm interested in utilizing for F1s +1 |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 8:45:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Paul, I hate I didn't see you listed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There are sure allot of Texas locations on that list. Paging DogtownTom, is the Plano location you? Paul, I hate I didn't see you listed. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:21:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes CLEO will be notified but it won't be your local CLEO. It will be one person in each state that can accept the notification and it will be a hard copy. We don't plan on making it easy for them  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: how will CLEO be notified? will it be in any form that could be kept in a record? Yes CLEO will be notified but it won't be your local CLEO. It will be one person in each state that can accept the notification and it will be a hard copy. We don't plan on making it easy for them |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:45:45 AM EDT
[#8]
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This is great now, but will be UUUUUUGEE when the phase II opens it up to any NFA purchase from the affiliated dealers. As soon as it goes live this will be an option. Dealers can sell from their inventory on day one. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:48:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a reminder, you can still use your favorite dealer to buy cans and then go to another dealer to complete the Kiosk information. And since your prints are on file, this is a one-time event. Bingo ^ |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 11:01:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a reminder, you can still use your favorite dealer to buy cans and then go to another dealer to complete the Kiosk information. And since your prints are on file, this is a one-time event. Assuming your favorite dealer is in the SSD network? |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 11:09:02 AM EDT
[#11]
SilencerShop, the kiosk system looks great. I'm very pleased that two will be located near me in Utah. You should consider branching out into the SBR game. I would love to be able to order a complete Daniel Defense, LMT, KAC, SBS Benelli, etc., from you and use the Kiosk to complete the NFA paperwork.
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Posted: 7/12/2016 11:12:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...and use the Kiosk to complete the NFA paperwork. That part, you can do. Once your info, prints, photo are in the SilencerShop kiosk database for you and all your trustees (if applicable) your NFA dealer can transfer other NFA items to you, using SS as the "paperwork processor" That is what GoLoud mentioend before, about going to a kiosk dealer once to get in the system, then going back to favorite (SSD?) dealer after that's done. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 11:38:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
"Fingerprints may be taken by anyone who is properly equipped to take them (see instructions on ATF Form 1, Form 4, Form 5, and Form 5320.23). Therefore, applicants may utilize the service of any business or government agency that is properly equipped to take fingerprints. Depending on where the fingerprints are taken, the service may require an appointment, and appointment availability may be limited. Some businesses provide evening and weekend appointments and a number of private companies provide mobile fingerprinting services at a location chosen by the customer to be fingerprinted. Additionally, some mobile fingerprinting services offer special pricing to groups of individuals who need to be fingerprinted." I've had my prints bounced back three times via the ink method. Never an issue when digitally taken. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 12:22:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm interested in utilizing for F1s +1 +2. I was elated to hear this weekend my LGS is getting a kiosk. It would be even better if we could use the tech to file form 1s. I'm sure a lot of people would pay a fee for the convenience. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 3:03:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had my prints bounced back three times via the ink method. Never an issue when digitally taken. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
"Fingerprints may be taken by anyone who is properly equipped to take them (see instructions on ATF Form 1, Form 4, Form 5, and Form 5320.23). Therefore, applicants may utilize the service of any business or government agency that is properly equipped to take fingerprints. Depending on where the fingerprints are taken, the service may require an appointment, and appointment availability may be limited. Some businesses provide evening and weekend appointments and a number of private companies provide mobile fingerprinting services at a location chosen by the customer to be fingerprinted. Additionally, some mobile fingerprinting services offer special pricing to groups of individuals who need to be fingerprinted." I've had my prints bounced back three times via the ink method. Never an issue when digitally taken. When I did an individual purchase in 2012, before I had my trust made, I called the local PD and asked if one of their evidence technicians could roll my prints for me. 5 minutes in and out, didn't cost me anything. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 3:58:35 PM EDT
[#16]
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Yes, but I'm sure there will be others getting a kiosk as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There are sure allot of Texas locations on that list. Paging DogtownTom, is the Plano location you? Yes, but I'm sure there will be others getting a kiosk as well. Just Shoot Safely in Plano is getting one as well |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 4:06:01 PM EDT
[#17]
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It would be even better if we could use the tech to file form 1s. I'm sure a lot of people would pay a fee for the convenience. Yes if you missed the post earlier form 1's will be one of the first things that we add. Stay tuned. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 6:42:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That part, you can do. Once your info, prints, photo are in the SilencerShop kiosk database for you and all your trustees (if applicable) your NFA dealer can transfer other NFA items to you, using SS as the "paperwork processor" That is what GoLoud mentioend before, about going to a kiosk dealer once to get in the system, then going back to favorite (SSD?) dealer after that's done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
...and use the Kiosk to complete the NFA paperwork. That part, you can do. Once your info, prints, photo are in the SilencerShop kiosk database for you and all your trustees (if applicable) your NFA dealer can transfer other NFA items to you, using SS as the "paperwork processor" That is what GoLoud mentioend before, about going to a kiosk dealer once to get in the system, then going back to favorite (SSD?) dealer after that's done. Brilliant! Thanks for catching me up Gopherboy128. SilencerShop is leading the way. I purchased two suppressors from you in the past few weeks. The Kiosk program will make it easy to keep buying more. I see a Rugged Surge in my future to complement my just purchased Razor. I've been a loyal Silencerco customer, especially since they are a Utah business, but I've made my camp with SilencerShop and moved on to new brands. Silencerco: drop the B.S and get with the program! |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 7:22:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey, Culpeper, VA is getting one! |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 7:24:31 PM EDT
[#20]
A local Posered By dealer just responded to my email and asked to hit them up again in 2 weeks for updates on how F1s will work
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:52:16 PM EDT
[#21]
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Nice! I was hoping you guys were getting one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hey, Culpeper, VA is getting one! Nice! I was hoping you guys were getting one. Me too (3?). Hoping to visit soon again as well. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:58:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it's about the long game. You get your prints (and I think photo) taken once at the kiosk. Now Silencer Shop has them on file. The next time you want a silencer from Silencer Shop, you point - click - and buy and Silencer Shop already has everything on file. No more having to go get another set of prints taken. The whole Powered By process keeps on rolling and 41F's inconvenience becomes less so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
Because it's about the long game. You get your prints (and I think photo) taken once at the kiosk. Now Silencer Shop has them on file. The next time you want a silencer from Silencer Shop, you point - click - and buy and Silencer Shop already has everything on file. No more having to go get another set of prints taken. The whole Powered By process keeps on rolling and 41F's inconvenience becomes less so. Ya, but it seems like you can only use it if you buy from Silencershop. 
I've bought the majority of my cans from silencershop but I already have 1-2 cans from other dealers that won't have their form 4s in time since I'm still waiting on the manufacturer. And for future purchases, it really sucks for me that they don't sell Dead Air or SilencerCo. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 10:02:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ya, but it seems like you can only use it if you buy from Silencershop.
I've bought the majority of my cans from silencershop but I already have 1-2 cans from other dealers that won't have their form 4s in time since I'm still waiting on the manufacturer. And for future purchases, it really sucks for me that they don't sell Dead Air or SilencerCo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
Because it's about the long game. You get your prints (and I think photo) taken once at the kiosk. Now Silencer Shop has them on file. The next time you want a silencer from Silencer Shop, you point - click - and buy and Silencer Shop already has everything on file. No more having to go get another set of prints taken. The whole Powered By process keeps on rolling and 41F's inconvenience becomes less so. Ya, but it seems like you can only use it if you buy from Silencershop.
I've bought the majority of my cans from silencershop but I already have 1-2 cans from other dealers that won't have their form 4s in time since I'm still waiting on the manufacturer. And for future purchases, it really sucks for me that they don't sell Dead Air or SilencerCo. You'll be able to use the Kiosk for any suppressor (and eventually NFA items) that your dealer sells, not just from Silencer Shop. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 5:48:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
Because wives on NFA Trusts probably aren't keen on having their fingerprints taken with ink by the crusty guy at the gun shop or by Officer Friendly. Electronic is fast and easy. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 6:31:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes if you missed the post earlier form 1's will be one of the first things that we add. Stay tuned. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It would be even better if we could use the tech to file form 1s. I'm sure a lot of people would pay a fee for the convenience. Yes if you missed the post earlier form 1's will be one of the first things that we add. Stay tuned. Awesome, I'm interested in this too. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 6:37:15 PM EDT
[#26]
BTW, when are these coming online? I'm thinking about getting prints taken for me and the Mrs just to get them on file now while we live close to a dealer before we move out to the middle of nowhere TX.
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Posted: 7/13/2016 6:55:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW, when are these coming online? I'm thinking about getting prints taken for me and the Mrs just to get them on file now while we live close to a dealer before we move out to the middle of nowhere TX. A local dealer in town told me a few weeks |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 6:57:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll be able to use the Kiosk for any suppressor (and eventually NFA items) that your dealer sells, not just from Silencer Shop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
Because it's about the long game. You get your prints (and I think photo) taken once at the kiosk. Now Silencer Shop has them on file. The next time you want a silencer from Silencer Shop, you point - click - and buy and Silencer Shop already has everything on file. No more having to go get another set of prints taken. The whole Powered By process keeps on rolling and 41F's inconvenience becomes less so. Ya, but it seems like you can only use it if you buy from Silencershop.
I've bought the majority of my cans from silencershop but I already have 1-2 cans from other dealers that won't have their form 4s in time since I'm still waiting on the manufacturer. And for future purchases, it really sucks for me that they don't sell Dead Air or SilencerCo. You'll be able to use the Kiosk for any suppressor (and eventually NFA items) that your dealer sells, not just from Silencer Shop. My dealer carries SilencerCo but no Dead Air cans. 
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Posted: 7/13/2016 7:04:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My dealer carries SilencerCo but no Dead Air cans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
Because it's about the long game. You get your prints (and I think photo) taken once at the kiosk. Now Silencer Shop has them on file. The next time you want a silencer from Silencer Shop, you point - click - and buy and Silencer Shop already has everything on file. No more having to go get another set of prints taken. The whole Powered By process keeps on rolling and 41F's inconvenience becomes less so. Ya, but it seems like you can only use it if you buy from Silencershop.
I've bought the majority of my cans from silencershop but I already have 1-2 cans from other dealers that won't have their form 4s in time since I'm still waiting on the manufacturer. And for future purchases, it really sucks for me that they don't sell Dead Air or SilencerCo. You'll be able to use the Kiosk for any suppressor (and eventually NFA items) that your dealer sells, not just from Silencer Shop. My dealer carries SilencerCo but no Dead Air cans. It's going to get to a certain point that beggars can't be choosers |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 3:15:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Anyone got a direct link to the kiosk locator on silencershops site? I can find the dealer locator, but nowhere to see if anyone close by is getting a kiosk.
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Posted: 7/14/2016 3:21:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone got a direct link to the kiosk locator on silencershops site? I can find the dealer locator, but nowhere to see if anyone close by is getting a kiosk. I don't think it is on their site yet. Go to page 6 of this thread and there is a link on locations receiving the kiosks. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 6:07:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it is on their site yet. Go to page 6 of this thread and there is a link on locations receiving the kiosks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone got a direct link to the kiosk locator on silencershops site? I can find the dealer locator, but nowhere to see if anyone close by is getting a kiosk. I don't think it is on their site yet. Go to page 6 of this thread and there is a link on locations receiving the kiosks. Got it. Thanks. Closes one is 43 minutes away. Not too bad. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 7:38:05 AM EDT
[#33]
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I've got the list of cities up. As Silencer Shop has mentioned, the individual dealers will be listed as they get the kiosks, so please don't hound them about it quite yet. That info is coming. http://modernrifleman.net/2016/07/11/silencer-shop-announces-kiosk-cities-dealers-to-come/ I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 8:05:50 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got the list of cities up. As Silencer Shop has mentioned, the individual dealers will be listed as they get the kiosks, so please don't hound them about it quite yet. That info is coming. http://modernrifleman.net/2016/07/11/silencer-shop-announces-kiosk-cities-dealers-to-come/ I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? There's only three Kiosks in all for the states in the NE. And this is just the initial run. SS is expecting hundreds more to be issued out. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 10:00:05 AM EDT
[#35]
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There's only three Kiosks in all for the states in the NE. And this is just the initial run. SS is expecting hundreds more to be issued out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got the list of cities up. As Silencer Shop has mentioned, the individual dealers will be listed as they get the kiosks, so please don't hound them about it quite yet. That info is coming. http://modernrifleman.net/2016/07/11/silencer-shop-announces-kiosk-cities-dealers-to-come/ I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? There's only three Kiosks in all for the states in the NE. And this is just the initial run. SS is expecting hundreds more to be issued out. FL gets almost 20. TX gets a huge amount which is understandable since NFA and TX are like pb&j. Plus SS is there. I think PA got quite a few. So did OH, not a big deal really. I sure hope they put more out because driving 5 hours round trip to use the closest kiosk kind of defeats the purpose |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 10:01:19 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've got the list of cities up. As Silencer Shop has mentioned, the individual dealers will be listed as they get the kiosks, so please don't hound them about it quite yet. That info is coming. http://modernrifleman.net/2016/07/11/silencer-shop-announces-kiosk-cities-dealers-to-come/ I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? Some states had FFL's that were more receptive on the initial emails. Now that they are launching we have 100+ FFL's that want a kiosk. They are in the next wave now. We hope to triple the number of kiosks by the end of the year. As far as coming online they were shipped on Monday. The FFL has to set up a time for install. We expect about 90% to be online by next Friday at the latest. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 10:19:16 AM EDT
[#37]
I'm not sure where to post this but figured with the knowledge in here that this would get answered quickly. My trust has myself as grantor and trustee with only a successor trustee and beneficiary. There are also three people that do not control items in the trust but who only help pick a successor trustee if needed. Who is considered a responsible person?
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Posted: 7/14/2016 12:18:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've got the list of cities up. As Silencer Shop has mentioned, the individual dealers will be listed as they get the kiosks, so please don't hound them about it quite yet. That info is coming. http://modernrifleman.net/2016/07/11/silencer-shop-announces-kiosk-cities-dealers-to-come/ I wanna know why tiny states in the northeast gets 5 to 6 kiosks throughout the state. NM which is HUGE, gets two? There are other shops in NM who are requesting a kiosk. I don't know the process of how long to actually get one. MAHA |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 2:22:37 PM EDT
[#39]
100 more are being made as we speak. So we will try to fill in the gaps as much as possible.
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Posted: 7/14/2016 3:20:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure where to post this but figured with the knowledge in here that this would get answered quickly. My trust has myself as grantor and trustee with only a successor trustee and beneficiary. There are also three people that do not control items in the trust but who only help pick a successor trustee if needed. Who is considered a responsible person? IANAL, but my understanding is that only someone who has the power to modify the trust is considered a "responsible person". For an example, my trust from NFALawyers allows co-trustees to possess or care for trust assets, but reserves to the settlor/primary trustee all power to modify the trust, so my interpretation is that only the settlor/primary trustee is a "responsible person". We won't really know until someone submits for a trust under the new rules and gets disapproved for failing to include someone the ATF considers a "responsible person", and then any litigation that follows. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 3:56:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IANAL, but my understanding is that only someone who has the power to modify the trust is considered a "responsible person". For an example, my trust from NFALawyers allows co-trustees to possess or care for trust assets, but reserves to the settlor/primary trustee all power to modify the trust, so my interpretation is that only the settlor/primary trustee is a "responsible person". We won't really know until someone submits for a trust under the new rules and gets disapproved for failing to include someone the ATF considers a "responsible person", and then any litigation that follows. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not sure where to post this but figured with the knowledge in here that this would get answered quickly. My trust has myself as grantor and trustee with only a successor trustee and beneficiary. There are also three people that do not control items in the trust but who only help pick a successor trustee if needed. Who is considered a responsible person? IANAL, but my understanding is that only someone who has the power to modify the trust is considered a "responsible person". For an example, my trust from NFALawyers allows co-trustees to possess or care for trust assets, but reserves to the settlor/primary trustee all power to modify the trust, so my interpretation is that only the settlor/primary trustee is a "responsible person". We won't really know until someone submits for a trust under the new rules and gets disapproved for failing to include someone the ATF considers a "responsible person", and then any litigation that follows. Your co-trustees will be required to submit RPQs and all that good stuff. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 4:07:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IANAL, but my understanding is that only someone who has the power to modify the trust is considered a "responsible person". For an example, my trust from NFALawyers allows co-trustees to possess or care for trust assets, but reserves to the settlor/primary trustee all power to modify the trust, so my interpretation is that only the settlor/primary trustee is a "responsible person". We won't really know until someone submits for a trust under the new rules and gets disapproved for failing to include someone the ATF considers a "responsible person", and then any litigation that follows. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not sure where to post this but figured with the knowledge in here that this would get answered quickly. My trust has myself as grantor and trustee with only a successor trustee and beneficiary. There are also three people that do not control items in the trust but who only help pick a successor trustee if needed. Who is considered a responsible person? IANAL, but my understanding is that only someone who has the power to modify the trust is considered a "responsible person". For an example, my trust from NFALawyers allows co-trustees to possess or care for trust assets, but reserves to the settlor/primary trustee all power to modify the trust, so my interpretation is that only the settlor/primary trustee is a "responsible person". We won't really know until someone submits for a trust under the new rules and gets disapproved for failing to include someone the ATF considers a "responsible person", and then any litigation that follows. IANAL either...but here's what the definition is on the F1: Responsible Person. In the case of an unlicensed entity, including any trust, partnership, association, company (including any Limited Liability Company (LLC)), or corporation, any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity. In the case of a trust, those persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust includes any person who has the capability to exercise such power and possesses, directly or indirectly the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of the trust. Examples of who may be considered a responsible person include settlors/grantors, trustees, partners, members, officers, directors, board members, or owners. An example of who may be excluded from this definition of responsible person is the beneficiary of a trust, if the beneficiary does not have the capability to exercise the enumerated powers or authorities. The problem us non-lawyers have is interpreting the combination of commas, along with the uses of "and" and "or". The red part above is the important part, and if the underlined part is valid as a stand-alone portion, then anybody that can be in possession of the item is an RP. However, if the "and" in bold combines that portion with the "directing management and policies" portion, all bets are off. I just know I can't answer that question...even though I 100% believe that was the intent of the definition of RP. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 4:45:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Hate to be their test case. If the "and" in red bold requires the combination of both those things, that may let a lot of people off the hook for long lists of trustees requiring fingerprints. I guess you'd need an amendment clarifying that co-trustees can only posses trust property, and not modify the trust verbiage, have no authority etc.
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Posted: 7/14/2016 8:32:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IANAL either...but here's what the definition is on the F1: Responsible Person. In the case of an unlicensed entity, including any trust, partnership, association, company (including any Limited Liability Company (LLC)), or corporation, any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity. In the case of a trust, those persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust includes any person who has the capability to exercise such power and possesses, directly or indirectly the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of the trust. Examples of who may be considered a responsible person include settlors/grantors, trustees, partners, members, officers, directors, board members, or owners. An example of who may be excluded from this definition of responsible person is the beneficiary of a trust, if the beneficiary does not have the capability to exercise the enumerated powers or authorities. The problem us non-lawyers have is interpreting the combination of commas, along with the uses of "and" and "or". The red part above is the important part, and if the underlined part is valid as a stand-alone portion, then anybody that can be in possession of the item is an RP. However, if the "and" in bold combines that portion with the "directing management and policies" portion, all bets are off. I just know I can't answer that question...even though I 100% believe that was the intent of the definition of RP. There are clearly two clauses there, and a person must satisfy both to be a RP. They must have (1) management power and (2) they must have possession power. Possession power can come from the trust, or it can come from State law. That's my interpretation. I agree with BW that the ATF probably intended RPs to be anyone who could manage but not possess, and also anyone who could possess but not manage. However, that is not how they wrote it. Very interesting. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 10:25:24 PM EDT
[#45]
I hope somebody does a "For Dummies" YouTube video on how to do this via these Kiosks.
It sounds simple enough, but it would be really beneficial to have a visual guide. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 10:28:23 PM EDT
[#46]
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I hope somebody does a "For Dummies" YouTube video on how to do this via these Kiosks. It sounds simple enough, but it would be really beneficial to have a visual guide. I don't do video, but I'm working on something.
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Posted: 7/15/2016 12:12:53 AM EDT
[#47]
I just found out one of these kiosks is going into a place two minutes from my front door - well shit, I'm definitely interested now...
So you can do the fingerprints digitally via the kiosk? If so, how the hell does that work exactly? |
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Posted: 7/15/2016 9:32:25 AM EDT
[#48]
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The main advantages are: 1. They're electronic so less mess, more reliable prints, and less training required for dealers 2. Since they are electronic, they get uploaded to Silencer Shop's database automatically and are saved for future purchases. You don't need to do them again. There may be cheaper ways, but this keeps it easy for both dealer and buyer. That's Silencer Shop's goal here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess I don't get the whole Kiosk program... according to the ATF anyone with the proper equipment (Fingerprint cards and Ink pad) can collect prints. why doesn't silencer shop just send a some ink pads to every dealer? (FBI print cards are FREE)... just saved them millions
"Fingerprints may be taken by anyone who is properly equipped to take them (see instructions on ATF Form 1, Form 4, Form 5, and Form 5320.23). Therefore, applicants may utilize the service of any business or government agency that is properly equipped to take fingerprints. Depending on where the fingerprints are taken, the service may require an appointment, and appointment availability may be limited. Some businesses provide evening and weekend appointments and a number of private companies provide mobile fingerprinting services at a location chosen by the customer to be fingerprinted. Additionally, some mobile fingerprinting services offer special pricing to groups of individuals who need to be fingerprinted." The main advantages are: 1. They're electronic so less mess, more reliable prints, and less training required for dealers 2. Since they are electronic, they get uploaded to Silencer Shop's database automatically and are saved for future purchases. You don't need to do them again. There may be cheaper ways, but this keeps it easy for both dealer and buyer. That's Silencer Shop's goal here. Question for Silencer Shop. I know stores with kiosks will be able to use them to sell out of their own inventory. Is there going to be a way for someone to say pay either the store the Kiosk is located at, or pay Silencer Shop to have their prints and passport photos done and be able to get a printed set to use with a dealer who is not the Kiosk store and the Form 4 you are wanting to file is not associated with a purchase from Silencer Shop? I bought a Griffin Optimus from Capitol Armory and I am having it form 3 to a local store with an indoor range that allows us to use the can while it is in prison. Sadly this store is not a powered by dealer or even listed with Silencer Shop and I would love to knock out getting my prints on file with SS while being able to use them and the photos for this Form 4. This is my first can and once inventory starts to be more available at SS over the coming months I plan to piss the wife off with multiple purchases from SS.
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Posted: 7/15/2016 10:05:32 AM EDT
[#49]
I believe for SS to do the paperwork, the dealer has to be a Powered by SS dealer, and sign a waiver "delegate authority" allowing SS employees to submit forms on your receiving FFL/SOT's behalf.
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Posted: 7/15/2016 10:20:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe for SS to do the paperwork, the dealer has to be a Powered by SS dealer, and sign a waiver allowing SS employees to submit forms on your receiving FFL/SOT's behalf. Not looking to have SS actually file the form 4, just looking to see if I can somehow pay to get the digital fingerprints at least done on a kiosk so I can use them when submitting the form 4 with the non powered by shop. The passport photo I can do myself but would be amazing if we could somehow upload our fingerprints and then get printed out digital fingerprint cards for a fee. |
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