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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:18:18 PM EDT
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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:26:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Hope it works.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:40:11 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm glad we can finally talk about this! It's an impressive undertaking and should help to relax some post-41F anxiety.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 6:56:53 PM EDT
[#3]
My local shop is getting one of the scanners. I created a new trust with just myself listed for any new purchases going forward, kinda annoying for people who want multiple tustees. But for people like me who dont need anyone else listed its not so bad.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:00:18 PM EDT
[#4]
We're getting one of the scanners at the shop I work at.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:09:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Do you have to use a scanner in the state you live in? If there is one closer in another state can you upload your stuff there and still have it sent to a dealer without a kiosk?
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:11:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have to use a scanner in the state you live in? If there is one closer in another state can you upload your stuff there and still have it sent to a dealer without a kiosk? Any kiosk, anywhere. If it's not the dealer you bought from, there may be an additional charge. But you only have to do it once. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:16:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Damn, that's creative. Great solution to the problem... until ATF monkeys with it.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:36:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Wow, this is awesome
Now if Silencer Shop could pick up DA products |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:38:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Exciting news and interesting to see how it will work out.
I give SS credit for their innovation efforts in making suppressor ownership easier. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:44:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Man, silencer shop is already a big dealer. Looks like after the implementation of 41F they will become a juggernaut. They've come a long way since they first opened their doors...
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:44:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Kudos to Silencer Shop. This looks like a good plan.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:45:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, silencer shop is already a big dealer. Looks like after the implementation of 41F they will become a juggernaut. They've come a long way since they first opened their doors... I was wondering if they were going to go the way of major malfunctions |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:01:12 PM EDT
[#13]
I just ordered a 45 Ti-rant from them today. These guys were more helpful than any shop I've ever worked with. The one concerning thing though was the wait time list they show at 9 months for form 4 on a trust. Is that correct?
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:01:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was wondering if they were going to go the way of major malfunctions Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Man, silencer shop is already a big dealer. Looks like after the implementation of 41F they will become a juggernaut. They've come a long way since they first opened their doors... I was wondering if they were going to go the way of major malfunctions Yeah you wonder if at some point it's not worth the extra margin of retail sales. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:07:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered a 45 Ti-rant from them today. These guys were more helpful than any shop I've ever worked with. The one concerning thing though was the wait time list they show at 9 months for form 4 on a trust. Is that correct? No. They no longer receive the approved forms, so they cannot speak to the current times. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:13:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was wondering if they were going to go the way of major malfunctions Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Man, silencer shop is already a big dealer. Looks like after the implementation of 41F they will become a juggernaut. They've come a long way since they first opened their doors... I was wondering if they were going to go the way of major malfunctions Sounds like they may be still doing a brisk online business but from my experience the local SS store is a ghost-town now. It used to always be filled with people checking out different models and buying silencers. Now when I go in I am the only one in the place. Seems like Capitol Armory has basically consumed all of their local business. The folks running the store don't seem to be as knowledgeable as they used to be either. The last item I transferred through them they screwed up the F4 paperwork so I had to go back the next day and get new F4 printouts and then when I picked it up they insisted on running a NICS check for an NFA individual transfer until I gave them my CHL to bypass it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:17:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. They no longer receive the approved forms, so they cannot speak to the current times. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just ordered a 45 Ti-rant from them today. These guys were more helpful than any shop I've ever worked with. The one concerning thing though was the wait time list they show at 9 months for form 4 on a trust. Is that correct? No. They no longer receive the approved forms, so they cannot speak to the current times. Where do the approved forms go to the buyer or local dealer? |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:19:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do the approved forms go to the buyer or local dealer? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just ordered a 45 Ti-rant from them today. These guys were more helpful than any shop I've ever worked with. The one concerning thing though was the wait time list they show at 9 months for form 4 on a trust. Is that correct? No. They no longer receive the approved forms, so they cannot speak to the current times. Where do the approved forms go to the buyer or local dealer? local dealer |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:20:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Only issue I see is a private entity having a fingerprint and photo database of gun owners. Cause private databases like that never get compromised, stolen or sold.
Be interesting to see how Silencer Shop addresses the security issue. Much larger companies and .gov entities fuck it up on the reg. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:20:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
local dealer Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just ordered a 45 Ti-rant from them today. These guys were more helpful than any shop I've ever worked with. The one concerning thing though was the wait time list they show at 9 months for form 4 on a trust. Is that correct? No. They no longer receive the approved forms, so they cannot speak to the current times. Where do the approved forms go to the buyer or local dealer? local dealer Thanks. Any idea on estimated lead times for a form 4 on a trust? I've got 4 now. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:25:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. Any idea on estimated lead times for a form 4 on a trust? I've got 4 now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just ordered a 45 Ti-rant from them today. These guys were more helpful than any shop I've ever worked with. The one concerning thing though was the wait time list they show at 9 months for form 4 on a trust. Is that correct? No. They no longer receive the approved forms, so they cannot speak to the current times. Where do the approved forms go to the buyer or local dealer? local dealer Thanks. Any idea on estimated lead times for a form 4 on a trust? I've got 4 now. NFA Tracker shows 120-150 days http://www.nfatracker.com/Default.aspx |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:47:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only issue I see is a private entity having a fingerprint and photo database of gun owners. Cause private databases like that never get compromised, stolen or sold. Be interesting to see how Silencer Shop addresses the security issue. Much larger companies and .gov entities fuck it up on the reg. I look forward to the day SS system gets compromised and they offer me $100 off a can as an apology 
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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:50:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I look forward to the day SS system gets compromised and they offer me $100 off a can as an apology Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Only issue I see is a private entity having a fingerprint and photo database of gun owners. Cause private databases like that never get compromised, stolen or sold. Be interesting to see how Silencer Shop addresses the security issue. Much larger companies and .gov entities fuck it up on the reg. I look forward to the day SS system gets compromised and they offer me $100 off a can as an apology I trust SS having our information secure more than the BATFE... That its going too anyway Just sayin' |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:13:59 PM EDT
[#24]
I think this is what will keep the NFA market growing at the absurd rate that has been going since trusts really took off, and we will all benefit from that. I know I have purchased the majority of my cans through SS because of the work they did to simplify the process. I have much more faith in SS to know the ins and outs of the process than I do a local dealer who is processing a couple items a month. The Octane and Sparrow I bought locally were both miserable experiences.
From the way I understand it if I get this through once through them then I can continue to apply for form 1/4s indefinitely as long as I buy/build an NFA item every so often (2 years I think) with no changes in the trust. I am a little unclear on how the CLEO notification will work using the new system though. I really just wish they would come to an agreement with Silencerco and Dead Air, it seems like everyone is losing on that situation. -Mike |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:20:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think this is what will keep the NFA market growing at the absurd rate that has been going since trusts really took off, and we will all benefit from that. I know I have purchased the majority of my cans through SS because of the work they did to simplify the process. I have much more faith in SS to know the ins and outs of the process than I do a local dealer who is processing a couple items a month. The Octane and Sparrow I bought locally were both miserable experiences. From the way I understand it if I get this through once through them then I can continue to apply for form 1/4s indefinitely as long as I buy/build an NFA item every so often (2 years I think) with no changes in the trust. I am a little unclear on how the CLEO notification will work using the new system though. I really just wish they would come to an agreement with Silencerco and Dead Air, it seems like everyone is losing on that situation. -Mike It's even easier than that. 41F doesn't specify an expiration on the fingerprints (nor should it). New photos must be submitted every 2 years, but that's what the app is for. You should only have to submit fingerprints and your trust/LLC/corporate docs once (unless you amend the trust). After you've made an initial purchase, this system is as easy (perhaps easier) as the current process. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:22:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think this is what will keep the NFA market growing at the absurd rate that has been going since trusts really took off, and we will all benefit from that. I know I have purchased the majority of my cans through SS because of the work they did to simplify the process. I have much more faith in SS to know the ins and outs of the process than I do a local dealer who is processing a couple items a month. The Octane and Sparrow I bought locally were both miserable experiences. From the way I understand it if I get this through once through them then I can continue to apply for form 1/4s indefinitely as long as I buy/build an NFA item every so often (2 years I think) with no changes in the trust. I am a little unclear on how the CLEO notification will work using the new system though. I really just wish they would come to an agreement with Silencerco and Dead Air, it seems like everyone is losing on that situation. -Mike Agreed. And I think most manufacturers will see the benefit of working with Silencer Shop. "Everybody plays, everybody wins." |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:39:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My local shop is getting one of the scanners. I created a new trust with just myself listed for any new purchases going forward, kinda annoying for people who want multiple tustees. But for people like me who dont need anyone else listed its not so bad. Why use a trust at all if you're the only one on it? CLEO signature goes away for everybody, so why would you need a trust over individual? |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:55:54 PM EDT
[#28]
just to be clear, any trustee named in a trust can purchase using that trust?
my FIL has a trust and I'm sure my SIL is a trustee. She really wants a suppressor.. can she just use his once this goes through? |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:59:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's even easier than that. 41F doesn't specify an expiration on the fingerprints (nor should it). New photos must be submitted every 2 years, but that's what the app is for. You should only have to submit fingerprints and your trust/LLC/corporate docs once (unless you amend the trust). After you've made an initial purchase, this system is as easy (perhaps easier) as the current process. You sure about the 2 years on the photo? It's always been a year, and the Draft copy of the new F1/F4 still list that requirement. There is a 24-month window on submitting a new copy of the trust/corp docs...you just have to sign to certify nothing has changed and give them the date (and some other info) of the previous approval. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:01:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You sure about the 2 years on the photo? It's always been a year, and the Draft copy of the new F1/F4 still list that requirement. There is a 24-month window on submitting a new copy of the trust/corp docs...you just have to sign to certify nothing has changed and give them the date (and some other info) of the previous approval. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's even easier than that. 41F doesn't specify an expiration on the fingerprints (nor should it). New photos must be submitted every 2 years, but that's what the app is for. You should only have to submit fingerprints and your trust/LLC/corporate docs once (unless you amend the trust). After you've made an initial purchase, this system is as easy (perhaps easier) as the current process. You sure about the 2 years on the photo? It's always been a year, and the Draft copy of the new F1/F4 still list that requirement. There is a 24-month window on submitting a new copy of the trust/corp docs...you just have to sign to certify nothing has changed and give them the date (and some other info) of the previous approval. Shit you're right... disregard That said, you still shouldn't have to upload a new trust. If you don't change it, Silencer Shop can just submit each time (and probably will). |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:02:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only issue I see is a private entity having a fingerprint and photo database of gun owners. Cause private databases like that never get compromised, stolen or sold. Be interesting to see how Silencer Shop addresses the security issue. Much larger companies and .gov entities fuck it up on the reg. Exactly the way I see it. Also trying to get new suppressor ownership to people that are always on the fence about things. To me and every other suppressor owner sees this as the next step but a new owner just sees anither hurdle and won't jump. And the fact there fingerprints are going somewhere and being stored. Hope it works out. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:03:11 PM EDT
[#32]
So once we are fingerprinted by silencer shop, future purchases through them don't require refingerprinting?(considering no changes made to trust?)
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:05:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So once we are fingerprinted by silencer shop, future purchases through them don't require refingerprinting?(considering no changes made to trust?) Yes, although there really isn't any reason an already 'printed person would need to resubmit even after a change. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:05:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think this is what will keep the NFA market growing at the absurd rate that has been going since trusts really took off, and we will all benefit from that. I know I have purchased the majority of my cans through SS because of the work they did to simplify the process. I have much more faith in SS to know the ins and outs of the process than I do a local dealer who is processing a couple items a month. The Octane and Sparrow I bought locally were both miserable experiences. From the way I understand it if I get this through once through them then I can continue to apply for form 1/4s indefinitely as long as I buy/build an NFA item every so often (2 years I think) with no changes in the trust. I am a little unclear on how the CLEO notification will work using the new system though. Prints and photos with every submission. The 2-year window is for the trust documentation itself. This may help a little with the CLEO Notification. It's interesting that the transferee (and not the transferor) is responsible for the notification. Not sure if that means SS will send you a copy, or if they'll go ahead and handle it. If I was SS, I'd just pick a CLEO at the state level and send everything to that one person for anything transferring to that particular state. Much easier than finding somebody at a more local level. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:08:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prints and photos with every submission. The 2-year window is for the trust documentation itself. This may help a little with the CLEO Notification. It's interesting that the transferee (and not the transferor) is responsible for the notification. Not sure if that means SS will send you a copy, or if they'll go ahead and handle it. If I was SS, I'd just pick a CLEO at the state level and send everything to that one person for anything transferring to that particular state. Much easier than finding somebody at a more local level. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think this is what will keep the NFA market growing at the absurd rate that has been going since trusts really took off, and we will all benefit from that. I know I have purchased the majority of my cans through SS because of the work they did to simplify the process. I have much more faith in SS to know the ins and outs of the process than I do a local dealer who is processing a couple items a month. The Octane and Sparrow I bought locally were both miserable experiences. From the way I understand it if I get this through once through them then I can continue to apply for form 1/4s indefinitely as long as I buy/build an NFA item every so often (2 years I think) with no changes in the trust. I am a little unclear on how the CLEO notification will work using the new system though. Prints and photos with every submission. The 2-year window is for the trust documentation itself. This may help a little with the CLEO Notification. It's interesting that the transferee (and not the transferor) is responsible for the notification. Not sure if that means SS will send you a copy, or if they'll go ahead and handle it. If I was SS, I'd just pick a CLEO at the state level and send everything to that one person for anything transferring to that particular state. Much easier than finding somebody at a more local level. I agree on the notification. I expect we will get clarification on that. While SS will submit photos and prints with each submission, that doesn't mean buyers have to upload new ones each time. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:41:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Where is the list of the shops that will have this?
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Posted: 5/25/2016 10:54:58 PM EDT
[#37]
So will we have to always go through SS to use the Kiosks or will our own dealers have the ability to do this solely through them.
BigWaylon: Any chatter from THSF or JK regarding this? |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:06:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So will we have to always go through SS to use the Kiosks or will our own dealers have the ability to do this solely through them. BigWaylon: Any chatter from THSF or JK regarding this? Dealers may use the kiosk for their own inventory as well. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:08:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why use a trust at all if you're the only one on it? CLEO signature goes away for everybody, so why would you need a trust over individual? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My local shop is getting one of the scanners. I created a new trust with just myself listed for any new purchases going forward, kinda annoying for people who want multiple tustees. But for people like me who dont need anyone else listed its not so bad. Why use a trust at all if you're the only one on it? CLEO signature goes away for everybody, so why would you need a trust over individual? I thought about this also, local shop said if some sort of law goes into effect later on with individuals it could be a problem. The state I live in is extremely fucky with what they allow and dont. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:10:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dealers may use the kiosk for their own inventory as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So will we have to always go through SS to use the Kiosks or will our own dealers have the ability to do this solely through them. BigWaylon: Any chatter from THSF or JK regarding this? Dealers may use the kiosk for their own inventory as well. Yep. I think it's a $25 fee if they're selling from their own inventory. The email I saw said $25 per suppressor, so if you bought two at the same time, it sounds like it's per form instead of per submission packet. Dunno, though. JKS is a PB dealer and on the list for the scanner, THSF is not a PB dealer. Don't think the situation would arise, but I'm not sure what the logistics would be if THSF wanted to send a customer to JKS to handle that part of the submission...like using SS as a third party print/photo source. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:20:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like they may be still doing a brisk online business but from my experience the local SS store is a ghost-town now. It used to always be filled with people checking out different models and buying silencers. Now when I go in I am the only one in the place. Seems like Capitol Armory has basically consumed all of their local business. Not just local, but state wide too. I'm in DFW and I bought from CA because they have stuff in stock and I don't have to form 3 anything. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:20:31 PM EDT
[#42]
All well and good on the surface and for the time being. I applaud SS for their efforts and hope they are not wasted. because they took the bull by the horns I will buy my next suppressor through them.
I see an opertuniety for the Feds to fuck it up. A bit supprised it has not already come up. Feds could modify rules and declare Finger Print cards may only be obtained from an authorized agency. ie..Law Enforcement, DMV, County Clerk, etc. other specifically authorized eniety. Cautiously Optimistic ! |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:36:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only issue I see is a private entity having a fingerprint and photo database of gun owners. Cause private databases like that never get compromised, stolen or sold. Be interesting to see how Silencer Shop addresses the security issue. Much larger companies and .gov entities fuck it up on the reg. Since OPM already let the ChiComs get all that stuff and much more, I'm not very concerned. This is a a brilliant solution to neuter pointless gov bureaucracy. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:45:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Man that is sweet.
Setting the kiosks up to do Form 1s for a $5-10 fee would be awesome. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:52:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. I think it's a $25 fee if they're selling from their own inventory. The email I saw said $25 per suppressor, so if you bought two at the same time, it sounds like it's per form instead of per submission packet. Dunno, though. JKS is a PB dealer and on the list for the scanner, THSF is not a PB dealer. Don't think the situation would arise, but I'm not sure what the logistics would be if THSF wanted to send a customer to JKS to handle that part of the submission...like using SS as a third party print/photo source. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So will we have to always go through SS to use the Kiosks or will our own dealers have the ability to do this solely through them. BigWaylon: Any chatter from THSF or JK regarding this? Dealers may use the kiosk for their own inventory as well. Yep. I think it's a $25 fee if they're selling from their own inventory. The email I saw said $25 per suppressor, so if you bought two at the same time, it sounds like it's per form instead of per submission packet. Dunno, though. JKS is a PB dealer and on the list for the scanner, THSF is not a PB dealer. Don't think the situation would arise, but I'm not sure what the logistics would be if THSF wanted to send a customer to JKS to handle that part of the submission...like using SS as a third party print/photo source. Maybe this won't be such a pain after all. JKS could maybe use his kiosk in the same way FFLs are used with online gun purchases and charge his on small fee for its use. It's good to see places are just adapting to the changes. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 11:58:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All well and good on the surface and for the time being. I applaud SS for their efforts and hope they are not wasted. because they took the bull by the horns I will buy my next suppressor through them. I see an opertuniety for the Feds to fuck it up. A bit supprised it has not already come up. Feds could modify rules and declare Finger Print cards may only be obtained from an authorized agency. ie..Law Enforcement, DMV, County Clerk, etc. other specifically authorized eniety. Cautiously Optimistic ! Sure, they could, but not without opening up a comment period again. I'll also note, that SS has come out and said that they would like to allow people to use the system for Form 1s at some point. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 8:10:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dealers may use the kiosk for their own inventory as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So will we have to always go through SS to use the Kiosks or will our own dealers have the ability to do this solely through them. BigWaylon: Any chatter from THSF or JK regarding this? Dealers may use the kiosk for their own inventory as well. Correct. However, Silencer Shop has to file the form 4 due to the nature of the kiosk. The dealer will also have to pay $25 each sale for this purpose. Whether the cost is passed to the customer is up to the dealer. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 9:24:13 AM EDT
[#48]
I think it would be wise if SilencerShop opened up this service (as part of a complete package, prints, photos & CLEO notification) for form 1's as well (for previous SS customers and for a small fee of course). I'd be all on it, it would make like very easy going forward.
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Posted: 5/26/2016 9:47:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it would be wise if SilencerShop opened up this service (as part of a complete package, prints, photos & CLEO notification) for form 1's as well (for previous SS customers and for a small fee of course). I'd be all on it, it would make like very easy going forward. That's coming. It's a genius system. What EFORMS should be. |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 10:17:08 AM EDT
[#50]
This scares me a little bit guys.
Silencer Shop has voluntarily built a system to support the firearms (silencers are firearms under current law) purchasing process which makes it easy to: - take a picture in a certain format - take fingerprints - record and transmit BATFE paperwork How can the antis not use this system the way they use any company making a smart gun? They're going to say "See look how easy it is! One of your own built a little kiosk that does it why can't we do this on all guns and set up a booth at every gun show". I support Silencer Shop for making the NFA process easier. However, I see how our enemies will use this against us. EDIT - Thought about this some more. I want to emphasize that streamlining an onerous process is a good thing! I just worry about guns and the TSA and the DMV and taxes and other things that the focus is on "making it easy" rather than "why does this even exist". |
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