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Posted: 5/22/2016 1:03:35 PM EDT
my suppressor got approved but the shop is about a 2 hour drive.   I always get delayed on nics checks.  My question is can a co-trustee pick it up and do the nics check or does it have to be me?
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 1:17:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Any trustee can pick it up.  Yes, my dealer does NICS checks on trust pickups.  Based on which ATF agent you ask it's required.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 1:25:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
It's not required. You can point out item 22 (and the accompanying instructions), or I'll show you the FFL Newsletter that spells it's out. (This doesn't mean there aren't shops that do it unnecessarily)

But, anybody on the trust that's eligible to possess it can fill out the 4473. I'd probably make sure the LGS knows it'll be somebody other than you to prevent any confusion.
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I told my dealer that and he said I was wrong. Gave him a copy of my CWP and he skipped the NICS.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 1:42:25 PM EDT
[#4]

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Quoted:
I told my dealer that and he said I was wrong. Gave him a copy of my CWP and he skipped the NICS.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

It's not required. You can point out item 22 (and the accompanying instructions), or I'll show you the FFL Newsletter that spells it's out. (This doesn't mean there aren't shops that do it unnecessarily)



But, anybody on the trust that's eligible to possess it can fill out the 4473. I'd probably make sure the LGS knows it'll be somebody other than you to prevent any confusion.




I told my dealer that and he said I was wrong. Gave him a copy of my CWP and he skipped the NICS.




 
Your dealer is an idiot
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 1:54:19 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

  Your dealer is an idiot
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's not required. You can point out item 22 (and the accompanying instructions), or I'll show you the FFL Newsletter that spells it's out. (This doesn't mean there aren't shops that do it unnecessarily)

But, anybody on the trust that's eligible to possess it can fill out the 4473. I'd probably make sure the LGS knows it'll be somebody other than you to prevent any confusion.


I told my dealer that and he said I was wrong. Gave him a copy of my CWP and he skipped the NICS.

  Your dealer is an idiot


He's my best local option and his transfer fees are cheap.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 2:11:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 2:31:26 PM EDT
[#7]
While the ATF does not require it at the Federal level. There is a possibility that depending on State Statute. A dealer may be required under State rules to call it in. Although I do not have proof of any states with such a rule. I can understand a dealer not wanting to poke the Bear.
More info from dealer wanting to do it. State Statute...? Or good feels.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 2:35:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 3:25:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Atf handbook says nics for trust is required














9.12.1 NFA Transfers to other than individuals. Subsequent to the approval of an application
requesting to transfer an NFA firearm to, or on behalf of, a partnership, company, association,
trust, estate, or corporation, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of, a
partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation from the FFL must complete the
Form 4473 with his/her personal information and undergo a NICS check. See also, question P60
in the ATF FAQs.























Link Posted: 5/22/2016 3:46:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 3:49:52 PM EDT
[#11]
I thought that ruling on trusts was the whole thing that started the trusts aren't people so they can posses machine guns argument.



Either way this dealer is going great to require it.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 4:04:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 9:21:02 PM EDT
[#13]
During last 2 audits they confirmed we were calling in all trusts. They looked at every 4473 tied to trust. That was main thing they looked at for2 of 4 hours.
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 6:31:06 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Atf handbook says nics for trust is required

[div]9.12.1 NFA Transfers to other than individuals. Subsequent to the approval of an applicationrequesting to transfer an NFA firearm to, or on behalf of, a partnership, company, association,trust, estate, or corporation, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation from the FFL must complete theForm 4473 with his/her personal information and undergo a NICS check. See also, question P60in the ATF FAQs.
View Quote
Oh, that's the NFA handbook which was written by NFATCA, consider the source. It's wrong BTW and moot come July 13.
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 8:00:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Aren't the NFATCA the ones that pushed for the fingerprint and photo requirements in 41P?
 
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 8:05:57 AM EDT
[#16]
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Aren't the NFATCA the that pushed for the fingerprint and photo requirements in 41P?  
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Yes, one in the same.
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 10:50:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 11:17:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 12:02:35 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:

ATF Handbook says a lot of things that aren't accurate.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Atf handbook says nics for trust is required

9.12.1 NFA Transfers to other than individuals. Subsequent to the approval of an applicationrequesting to transfer an NFA firearm to, or on behalf of, a partnership, company, association,trust, estate, or corporation, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation from the FFL must complete theForm 4473 with his/her personal information and undergo a NICS check. See also, question P60in the ATF FAQs.



ATF Handbook says a lot of things that aren't accurate.


Yep, and on July 13 it will really have a lot of errors.
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 12:12:06 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
I specifically asked an agent in person when we were changing over to being a manufacturer.  He explicitly stated that the "Only NFA Items" box referred to individual transfers.  

Trusts/Corps were required to do the NICS check unless they had an exemption (such as a Texas CHL.)  They have contacted dealers since 2008 saying that trusts did require NICS checks.  

View Quote


[Not this shit again]

NICS for NFA has NEVER been required. Repeat that, NEVER. That is the whole reason for 41F. It is even mentioned in the petition. To close that loophole. NFATCA hated that. Hence they lied when they wrote NFA handbook, and that lie gets perpetuated ad infinitum.

I have never done a NICS check on NFA and have never had an issue during a compliance check. Anyone says it is required, ask them to show you WHERE in the CFR it is required. It is not there.

Are people who think NICS ias required still going to do it after 7/13?
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 1:12:44 PM EDT
[#21]
wonder why they made such a huge deal of it with us.
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 3:48:54 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
They say it and they say it and they say it...

But it's not what the regs say...or the guidance they put in writing.
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This.
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 1:30:10 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:

Yeah, should've added that disclaimer.

I believe CO has that requirement. Assume there will be others as well.
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Quoted:
While the ATF does not require it at the Federal level. There is a possibility that depending on State Statute. A dealer may be required under State rules to call it in. Although I do not have proof of any states with such a rule. I can understand a dealer not wanting to poke the Bear.
More info from dealer wanting to do it. State Statute...? Or good feels.

Yeah, should've added that disclaimer.

I believe CO has that requirement. Assume there will be others as well.



Yes.  When my stamp arrived at my LGS, I had to complete form 4473 for CBI just as if I was purchasing a firearm.  CBI being the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, of course, since Colorado doesn't use the NIC system.  Didn't even think to ask if my trustee/beneficiary could have picked up the can but I'm gonna say the LGS wouldn't have let that fly.  

Hmmm.  Good question.  Now I'm curious.
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 9:57:10 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:



Yes.  When my stamp arrived at my LGS, I had to complete form 4473 for CBI just as if I was purchasing a firearm.  CBI being the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, of course, since Colorado doesn't use the NIC system.  Didn't even think to ask if my trustee/beneficiary could have picked up the can but I'm gonna say the LGS wouldn't have let that fly.  

Hmmm.  Good question.  Now I'm curious.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While the ATF does not require it at the Federal level. There is a possibility that depending on State Statute. A dealer may be required under State rules to call it in. Although I do not have proof of any states with such a rule. I can understand a dealer not wanting to poke the Bear.
More info from dealer wanting to do it. State Statute...? Or good feels.

Yeah, should've added that disclaimer.

I believe CO has that requirement. Assume there will be others as well.



Yes.  When my stamp arrived at my LGS, I had to complete form 4473 for CBI just as if I was purchasing a firearm.  CBI being the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, of course, since Colorado doesn't use the NIC system.  Didn't even think to ask if my trustee/beneficiary could have picked up the can but I'm gonna say the LGS wouldn't have let that fly.  

Hmmm.  Good question.  Now I'm curious.


Ya, not sure my SOT, and arfcommer, would let my trustee pick something up
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 10:56:28 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:


Ya, not sure my SOT, and arfcommer, would let my trustee pick something up
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While the ATF does not require it at the Federal level. There is a possibility that depending on State Statute. A dealer may be required under State rules to call it in. Although I do not have proof of any states with such a rule. I can understand a dealer not wanting to poke the Bear.
More info from dealer wanting to do it. State Statute...? Or good feels.

Yeah, should've added that disclaimer.

I believe CO has that requirement. Assume there will be others as well.



Yes.  When my stamp arrived at my LGS, I had to complete form 4473 for CBI just as if I was purchasing a firearm.  CBI being the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, of course, since Colorado doesn't use the NIC system.  Didn't even think to ask if my trustee/beneficiary could have picked up the can but I'm gonna say the LGS wouldn't have let that fly.  

Hmmm.  Good question.  Now I'm curious.


Ya, not sure my SOT, and arfcommer, would let my trustee pick something up

I've had a trustee/beneficiary pick up cans from my SOT. They took a copy of the trust and ID and it was no problem.
Etc spelling
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 12:46:24 PM EDT
[#26]
^ very nice
Link Posted: 5/24/2016 12:55:38 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:

I've had a trustee/beneficiary pick up cans from my SOT. They took a copy of their trust and ID and it was no problem.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Ya, not sure my SOT, and arfcommer, would let my trustee pick something up

I've had a trustee/beneficiary pick up cans from my SOT. They took a copy of their trust and ID and it was no problem.

As long as they are on the trust they are good to go.  We also have anyone picking up for a trust sign a written statement that they are authorized to act on behalf of the trust as instructed on the 4473.

"When the buyer of a firearm is a corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity, an officer authorized to act on behalf of the ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) Part I Revised April 2012 business must complete Section A of the form with his or her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity. If the buyer’s name in question 1. is illegible, the seller must print the buyer’s name above the name written by the buyer."


Then there is this, in the instructions of the 4473 (text in bold).  

"EXCEPTIONS TO NICS CHECK: A NICS check is not required if the transfer qualifies for any of the exceptions in 27 CFR § 478.102(d). Generally these include: (a) transfers where the buyer has presented the licensee with a permit or license that allows the buyer to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm, and the permit has been recognized by ATF as a valid alternative to the NICS check requirement; (b) transfers of National Firearms Act weapons approved by ATF; or (c) transfers certified by ATF as exempt because compliance with the NICS check requirements is impracticable. See 27 CFR § 478.102(d) for a detailed explanation. If the transfer qualifies for one of these exceptions, the licensee must obtain the documentation required by 27 CFR § 478.131. A firearm must not be transferred to any buyer who fails to provide such documentation."

Link Posted: 5/24/2016 6:18:28 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
I specifically asked an agent in person when we were changing over to being a manufacturer.  He explicitly stated that the "Only NFA Items" box referred to individual transfers.  

Trusts/Corps were required to do the NICS check unless they had an exemption (such as a Texas CHL.)  They have contacted dealers since 2008 saying that trusts did require NICS checks.  

View Quote

....till another agent says something else.
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