We've been over this...nobody doubts that OSS isn't selling a ton of the cans.  There is a lot of misinformation and confusion about the system.

I'm hoping with the new Gen 5 role out, they will become more popular. They really are an awesome can.

 

Actually I didn't say why they weren't selling at all.. I simply commented on why they were not on silencer shop... and provided a link from OSS website that to me gave a reason. (that reason being they were sold under MAP).  As far as the details of the ordeal...I know nothing other than what I read here.

Anyway...is there a point here?  I'm just providing info about the can, as I think its an option many would consider if they understood it.

 

You are not just providing information. You are trying to a salesman for them.

Yes. This new keymod rail should be available shortly.

I'm really not. I'm simply providing information on a system that excites me personally.  Why that is offensive? I don't know.  I have no idea why people are so butt hurt about it.  

There are is a lot of talk without experience when it comes to these cans. People are getting the wrong idea about them, and I'm simply trying to correct them.  When it was stated that silencer shop wasn't selling them, I was simply commenting as to the reason why,  And before SS pipped in, all I knew was that they were violating MAP agreements.  

May I ask, what your motive is here? I simply want to talk about the can... Seems like others have a different agenda of convincing everyone that they are pieces of junk without provided any good reasons as to why, but instead making fallacious inferences to draw conclusions that do not follow.  

I still haven't seen one good argument as to why they are bad cans...not one.

I have no motive. Just calling a spade a spade.

 

No, you want to shout down anyone who has concerns about any aspect of the can.

I hope these work out. But the only people who have experience with the Gen 5 cans seem to be connected to OSS. Oh, and according to reports in this thread, the Gen 5 doesn't make the Gen 4 obsolete. Although, those with negative experiences with the Gen 4 haven't tried the Gen 5 so the experience isn't applicable because the Gen 5 is much better. But, it's not. But it is.

I'm following these cans because I want them to work out. But right now, EVERYONE I've talked toand read of not affiliated with OSS has had negative experiences with these cans. Once you add the owner's line about "we carried mulitple cans each overseas because they would fail after a couple mags" (a complete line of BS) then you start to get the impression of absolute snake-oil.

I want the taste of snakeoil out of my mouth, but this thread isn't helping.

 

Tell that to the people who hand out the guest passes.  This is a thread about OSS cans, or atleast it was until the usual "you should buy something else because I dont like them" crowd came along.

I myself think the OSS cans are an interesting branch in technology, I am not from Utah and don't care about a petty squable between 2 companies.

Pretty simple IMO, really...

SilCo - Selling a CRAP ton of suppressors
OSS - Selling hardly any

I'm really getting the idea that in your opinion, Munition, OSS isn't selling due to poor marketing and consumer awareness. That, is pure insanity. There's PLENTY of people that darn-well knew about OSS, and decided against the company, for whatever their reason.

I do commend the company for trying to innovate, however. I just personally think there's better choices.

It would be different if the gen 5 was the same price as a saker

If I've been misleading I apologize.  I don't want to come across like a fanboy.  I only get irritated when people argue poorly about negative aspects that don't exist.

What I don't like hearing is:
"they suck because they don't sell"
"they suck because someone else doesn't like them"
"they suck because (insert bad reason that doesn't prove anything) etc"  

If they suck, tell me why. Give me reasons why they are bad cans. I had figured a lot of the questions about dB levels and weight were answered.  

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.  I know they are a bit pricey, but I still think they are a good option and worth checking into for a lot of good reasons.  

Mantis Arms.  He runs a now Class 3 joint in Cedar City UT.

link

If you are referring to me, then I have you know I ended up buying a can from YHM while at SHOT.  So try and get some info before you go on assuming things you don't know (if you are referring to me that is :) )

A friend of mine bought over $50k in vortex optics, and over $100k on other things from vendors he's never worked with before. He developed relationships in addition to spending money.  One can means jack shit at SHOT.

Wow dude, you must be so awesome to hang with at SHOT.  I'm sorry, I guess 1 Can isn't enough to be in the cool club with you.  I'll shut up and let you have the floor. Such a good point you made there.

Great!  That's a slick looking setup.  The more I research it the more I'm willing to give the new BPR2 a try.  I think it would work great on an 8.2" 300BO upper...that would give you an overall length just under 16" if my math is right.

Another question for you if you happen to know the answer.  Is the Gen V being sold as a complete system still, with the FHMB + BPR + SRM, or will the BPR2 be available as a standalone unit?

SHOT Show deals, buy stuff that you do not know about that will be announced at SHOT, etc.

Seems like my people do just fine when they make MASSIVE deals at shot. Guess it's the player not the game.

how much free barrel length do you need for the reflex design?

Interested

with the BPR 1, roughly 5" of barrel depending on the size of gas block. If what you mean by "reflex" design is the over-the-barrel option using the BPR1.

I have no interest in buying one, but my buddy has one on his issue rifle.  He's on the swat unit.  I haven't been able to shoot it yet, but he seems happy.  

He said they weren't asked what they wanted for suppressors, but we're issued the Oss.   He said it's not cutting edge quiet, like his personal cans, but he said there's about NO gas back in your face.  It's a fairly new purchase, but I don't know which version they use.

Verdict:  he said it's ok, but buys different cans for personal use.

With a Saker 762 on the end of a MK18 running a Govnah gas block and a heavier buffer, I get zero gas blowback. Using factory 62gr SP ammo.

I have nothing against OSS, but if you are in search of zero blow back, there are other (easier?) options out there with apparently better sound performance.

Good point :-) the only argument I can think of in favor of an OSS over a normal can with a adjustable gas block kind of option is this:  

perhaps it's an issue to those who abuse the hell out of their cans, but for others a moot point; with the OSS, at least you can replace the insides when they ware out instead of throwing away the can.  Though some might argue with civilian shooting with cans that offer stelite baffles and adjustable blocks, the life is plenty long.

I often wonder about blowback.

I get very, very little of it on my SBR with an SDN6.  I've never really experienced blowback as bad as some folks on the web seem to, across multiple gun/suppressor combos.

Given that, I wonder what an OSS can offers, aside from being louder, heavier, longer, and more expensive than the other top cans on the market.

ETA:
I'm not trying to say that blowback doesn't exist, as it obviously does.  My point is that I'm not going to sacrifice on other fronts (more important fronts, IMO) to mitigate what is, to me, a non-issue.

No interest in OSS or any other cans right now....(Form 1 builder here)....however, I fully believe the "GAS FACE" to be 100% personal tolerance.  I shoot 99% of the time and ALL my guns.  My kids, and wife shoot as well.  Out of all 6 of us, shooting the same guns, 4 of us have NO ISSUES with being gassed.  My wife and 1 daughter however have big problems with it.  Same guns.....different results or opinions.  

This doesn't prove anything....just thought it was interesting.

Another thing to consider is weapon life.  Leaving a can on a traditional AR without adjusting the gas down to mitigate the higher pressure can drastically decrease the life of the rifle.  

The oss system is technically heavier as a unit, but better balanced than many other rifles if you go with the OTB (over the barrel) option.  The weight in front of the muzzle with a the BPR1+SRM4 (a unit that together is 21oz and adds maybe 5 inches to the overall weapon length) is actually lighter than many other popular full size cans.

People also say it's louder.  That is something I personally don't know.  So I can't confirm or deny it.  It doesn't sound louder than other cans I've heard but I haven't shot them side by side.   On paper oss claims 138 dB (at the shooter ear measured in close quarters)  lots of other cans advertise 134 dB (at whatever measuring standard they see fit)  as far as I know, there isn't an industry standard but there is SOCOM standard.  

I'd be interested in seeing many cans measured at the shooters ear to hear and see the difference.

We have, repeatedly. Your sole answer seems to be "Well, you have no experience with it, so you don't know."  Look, if Toyota releases a car with 175HP that they claim does 220mph, I don't need to test drive it to know they are full of shit, or that the speed comes with a lot of catches.  You're getting the same here.  I see a can that's twice as big as most, 30-50% heavier than most, twice as expensive as most, has worse sound performance than most, sells virtually no units, and yet is claimed to be the next great thing to hit the silencer market.  I don't need to go try one out to know a turd when I see it.  I've got a decade of experience with silencers and a solid understanding of baffle design, and I know some universal truths about the suppression of gunshot noise.  1: To be a good sound performer, a silencer must contain and restrict the powder gases. 2: Doing so will create backpressure, unless the can's volume is very large, or unless the can simply does a poor job of containing the powder gases, which will mean it is loud.

As noted previously, OSS does a mixture of those two things.  You could make an empty silencer tube meter 138dB if you make it big enough.  Part of their ability to reduce some sound while maintaining minimal backpressure comes from their comically large size.  The remainder comes from their baffles, which cannot be doing a good job of containing powder gases, or else they would raise the backpressure.  They look impressively machined and I'm sure the fit and finish are good, but the laws of physics dictate that a silencer which creates no backpressure must either be very large or very loud.  OSS tried to find something of a happy medium between those - not too big to be unusable, and not too loud to be cannons, but they ended up being too large to interest half of potential buyers, and too loud to interest the other half.

Yes, there is.  Everyone in the industry knows about it, AND it's a military standard. MIL-STD 1474D. Every other silencer company that refuses to use this standard has also eventually been shown to make poor-performing silencers.

Not that I doubt you, but I read up on MIL-STD 1474D in an attempt to find where it mentions what equipment needs to be used to measure sound coming from the muzzle of a suppressed firearm, and where the meter should be located in relation to the muzzle... It's kind of difficult to find.  So if you could point me to the spot that explains where to measure the sound... That'd be very informative.  

As far as I can tell from various manufacturers of suppressors, not a lot of companies give much detail on their measuring techniques for measuring the decibels.

 

The life of what components?  The buffer spring?  Should be replacing on a set schedule anyways.  What else?

Heavier matters.  Especially if you're going to be carrying the rifle, which seems to be what OSS is going for.  I mean, they've said that they made them because they were tired of "issued suppressors failing" (which is bullshit), meaning they want to carry them.  When you're carrying something, it doesn't matter where the weight is, it matters that it's there.  Remember, ounces are pounds and pounds are pain.  What popular cans are more than 21oz?  The YHM Phantom LT .30cal is 20 ounces, the Saker 762 is 20.7 ounces (heavy), the Harvester is 11.3 ounces, the Omega is 14 ounces, the SDN6 is 20 ounces...are you seeing the picture?  While most are still heavy, the new generation of lightweight .30cal cans is lighter than all that, not heavier like the BPR1+SRM4.  That's what progress looks like - better materials, lighter, and quieter, not...none of those things.

No one measures at the shooter's ear for a reason, and that reason has already been explained.

You have firmly crossed into fanboy territory in this thread, though you've said you're trying not to.

 

Wow... that is horse shit. Scott is a great guy and I will continue doing business with him.

You guys rock and will continue to get my business and support...

What I don't understand is I saw an OSS booth years ago (probably 10) at a gun show. They had some of their octagon cans with spikes on them. They also built some mean looking ak's. I asked them about their cans and they were very rude in telling me how everyone else's cans suck and this is the future. I wasn't impressed and they wanted something like $1600 for the heavy model. Now since they have gone through 6 revisions they seem to think they can get it right. It took 10 years and still no real market share. Silencerco on the other hand started with nothing, made a great suppressor to start and in only 3 years had built a huge following for good products and great customer service. You can't say that OSS is new because the real "new" companies came around long after their gen 1 octawhatever and have gone on to blow them out of the water. I still will never buy or endorse an OSS suppressor because of the terrible customer service I receicved over 10 years ago. That and they feel like garbage and each attachment is like $300.

Both Silencerco & Surefire will refurbish your can if/when it's shot out, SiCo claims no charge just part of warranty, Surefire $650 charge but neither require a new stamp and wait time for new stamp.  Surefire claims 50k+ rounds without any significant loss in performance out of .mil Mk18s which are sometimes used full auto with flash hiders...  My suspicion is OSS will not be around very long due to lack of sales, so when you need to replace your internals you'll be SOL.  With Surefire there is ZERO chance of that happening & highly unlikely in the case of SiCo as well.

The guy below you post posted this, Which is how I've tested.

There's only one very specific organization I know of that specifies shooter's ear as a testing point. They have specific requirements and don't need to specify Mil-std and maybe this is why OSS uses this testing standard. But it's not a standard. And it's not how the industry tests. Nor is it conducive to an overall quiet can.

So maybe OSS uses shooter's ear because of the military history of the owner and who they were/are trying to sell to. But it's not the best way to do it outside of specific purchasers specifying it.

I'd like to see companies advertise their numbers with both as Mil-std and "shooter's right ear" numbers using a common testing gun. Maybe one of the silencer organizations will move into industry standardization oversight. If rollerblading has indutry standards for wheel and frames I'm sure there's a way to do it for the silencer/firearms industry.

So what?  What can't you rebuild or replace?  Quite honestly, the constant drumbeat of OSS propaganda is getting repetitive.

Agreed.

Yup, bought another can yesterday


It's not intellectually honest to say SiCO came from nothing.

I felt the same about AAC.   I had questions and they were rude and cocky.  None of my rifles are setup for AAC cans.

What you seem to fail to realize is that you are making assumptions on my personal position on the issue based on arguments I’ve made for OSS.  I am very careful to word what I have stated precisely so that if you look at what I’ve said closely, you’ll notice I’ve never inserted my personal beliefs about the system.  I have made arguments for the OSS system sure,  but that is not to say that I personally would go a different route or not.  And it is simply not the same as saying, “OSS is the best” or “OSS is better than (fill in the blank)”. And simply making an argument for a different system, does not mean that I am a “fanboy”

I get it though; in your mind you see it so clearly.  It’s obvious that OSS is not the way to go for the reasons you’ve listed.  You must see this so plainly as to assume that to argue against you, one must simply not see what is plainly in front of them and they must be a “fanboy”  To put it simply; IF that is your line of thought, then you are wrong. 

Now I have admitted where I am unsure about aspects of the new system, but there are holes in your argument against the can that need to be pointed out.  So let me go through some of them because some people actually want to hear an opposing argument. 

And please remember, that just because I present an opposing argument, it does not mean that I personally think one is better than the other. 

You mention that to quiet the noise, baffles need to be used to trap gasses (creating back pressure) in order to slow the gas down enough etc etc.  You mention that using a hollow tube will get you 138 dB.  You are simply wrong here.  To quiet the noise, gas expansion is the key. Baffle designs work because they allow the gasses to expand more and longer than they normally would in the barrel alone.  The key is to allow gas to expand, and it so happens that trapping gasses with baffles does that, and it works! And it’s a 120 year old design but it works, but it also creates back pressure.  

OSS is going a different rout.  The reason there a so many channels for the gas to travel spiraling around back and forth is with the OSS system is to allow for more linear expansion of the gasses.  You’ll notice the gasses exit the can though more than one hole at the front end.  No back pressure, and quite, because of expanding gasses.  A hollow tube does not allow for much linear expansion….

You mention that the parts that ware due to excessive back pressure should be replaced regularly anyway.  Good point.  Now weather or not those parts would ware quicker on a rifle that is suppressed vs an unsuppressed rifle is the distinction.   As I understand it, using a can will drastically increase the ware on internal parts due to back pressure, meaning they will ware quicker.  But perhaps that is a moot point as you make it seem. 

As far as weight is considered, weight in front of the muzzle is very important and not just total weight.  You mention that oz is pounds, and pounds is more.  That is a relative point at best.  For some, 3 more whole oz on a unit that comes with other added benefits is worth it.  But that all is going to depend on a whole bunch of factors ranging from personal preference to mission specific requirements etc.  So for argument purposes, perhaps your comments about weight are not as important and crucial to your whole argument against the system as you may think.  At least perhaps not to others.

You mention that the trend is getter lighter and better materials, and that is what progression looks like.  I’ll argue that perhaps you are wrong (or not fully right). There are other aspects of signature reduction that are very important, and back pressure is one of them.

Better materials matter to decrease ware on the internal components, but if those internals were replaceable, or designed in a way that they didn’t fail like baffles, maybe that’s something to think about?? 

Here another thought, these kinds of issues generally don’t happen with OSS cans, simply because of how OSS designs their cans:  (googled baffle strike, and suppressor fail)












And if they did fail, they are replaceable (and cleanable).  All while eliminating back pressure completely.  Have you considered the thought that this is what progression looks like? A better balanced, ear safe option with %100 sustainable internal components, QD attachment, no back pressure, less heat increasing option.  Some might argue its a game changer. 

There are good arguments for this stance.  Weight, internal components, signature reduction, heat mitigation, all things considered there is a good argument that can be made that OSS is a great option for this.  And that is the point of this thread.  And to argue that because they don’t sell, they must be bad cans, or because someone said they suck, they must be bad cans; is fallacious and irrational.

Now before you allow your blood to boil over if you read all this, remember that I personally have my ARs setup to accommodate different cans.  I do also think there are some fantastic flush mount baffle design cans out there.  I’m a HUGE fan of a few.  But whether or not I am a fan, there can be an argument against some of my favorites.

OSS probably sells 1 can for every 500 that AAC sells. Not really a great comparison.

Lol probably.  Your pointless remarks never stop amazing me.  What exactly is your point with that statement? Really.. I'm intrigued and would like a direct answer as to what your point is there?  I'm thinking you need to take a logic class or read up on some informal fallacies and syntactic logic.  I can't tell if your just joking or serious.

My point is simple. OSS is has major integrity issues. They make shit up to sell cans.  They lied to my face trying to get me to order cans.   I've put a couple hundred rounds through 2 of their cans, so unlike some, I know exactly what they do and don't do. I did indeed hit the high points. I also posted the negatives.  That's when the shills (you) got extremely butthurt and are now playing word games.

You claim certain issues don't happen with OSS cans. Yet they're not selling enough for people to actually have a real sample size.


Now, whether you like it or not, you're seen as a shill, if not an employee of the company. You claim you only took pictures, but you're fanboying like you're an investor and now that it's obvious,  you're back pedaling in a way to make it look even worse.