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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:03:08 PM EDT
I have ran 270 rounds so far through my 10.3" DDMK18 upper with my Saker 762 w/ trifecta flash hider. Tonight I cleaned my rifle and what I have been doing after use is wipe the mount and teeth of fouling and lightly coat before I reattach. Besides the point I took a look at the blast baffle and noticed some wear; as far as fire rate I would say in my three trips I shot avg. 90 rounds per 45 minutes (semi-auto) which is misleading as on the third trip I ran (3) 30 round mags in 15 minutes. I am curious as to the baffle wear you have seen on your cans or even performance decline? I plan to keep track of my round count and rate of fire and see how it progresses over time. Pic below of current blast baffle condition.    


Link Posted: 10/24/2014 7:46:18 AM EDT
[#1]
If you are really worried about it you could swap out the flash hider for a break.  

SilencerCo claims their baffle material is 30% stronger than inconel.  It'll be interesting to see how the Saker and Specwar cans wear compared to cans made of inconel like the M4-2000 and 762SDN6.  I've beaten the hell out of my M4-2000 and my dealer has flat out tortured his and they both sound great, but my dealer's blast baffle looks a little worse for wear!
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 9:16:16 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
If you are really worried about it you could swap out the flash hider for a break.  

SilencerCo claims their baffle material is 30% stronger than inconel.  It'll be interesting to see how the Saker and Specwar cans wear compared to cans made of inconel like the M4-2000 and 762SDN6.  I've beaten the hell out of my M4-2000 and my dealer has flat out tortured his and they both sound great, but my dealer's blast baffle looks a little worse for wear!
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Was just wondering In general what others have seen and experienced. Not concerned about wear as it is going to wear regardless just like most parts.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 9:30:37 AM EDT
[#3]
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Was just wondering In general what others have seen and experienced. Not concerned about wear as it is going to wear regardless just like most parts.
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If you are really worried about it you could swap out the flash hider for a break.  

SilencerCo claims their baffle material is 30% stronger than inconel.  It'll be interesting to see how the Saker and Specwar cans wear compared to cans made of inconel like the M4-2000 and 762SDN6.  I've beaten the hell out of my M4-2000 and my dealer has flat out tortured his and they both sound great, but my dealer's blast baffle looks a little worse for wear!


Was just wondering In general what others have seen and experienced. Not concerned about wear as it is going to wear regardless just like most parts.


My M4-2000 had noticeable wear after a few hundred rounds on a 14.5" upper with blackout flash hider. You could actually see the pattern of the three pronged flash hider in the wear.  I am a very strong proponent of running brakes on all of my hosts, and have since switched them all out.  The wear is progressing substantially slower now, to the tune of several order of magnitude according to my eyes.  Brakes are relatively cheap and easy to replace.  Yes, it is going to wear regardless, but why not slow that process down by a good 2-300%?

Not my pic, but here is a brake from a 10.5" upper with a mere 3000 rounds through it.  
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 9:33:23 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm not saying there isn't any wear, but that baffle is still pretty dirty. Clean it up really well and see if the perceived wear remains. I find it hard to believe that stellite would wear noticeably after so few rounds. I would also go with a MB on a barrel that short.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 9:58:04 AM EDT
[#5]
It surprises me how many people want to run flash hiders on Short barreled suppressor hosts.  Being a lifetime purchase, it isn't out of the question for a can to see many tens of thousands of rounds in its lifetime; more for people that actually shoot a decent amount.  It's pretty easy to burn off 1,000 rounds in a decent weekend of shooting.  Doing that just once a month would mean 12,000 rounds a year.  If half of that is suppressed, you're still looking at 60,000 rounds in 10 years.  I don't care what your blast baffle is made out of, that's a ton of wear.  If I can cut that wear in half (or better), why not?

The arguments against brakes all have pretty good counter arguments, at least in my mind.  

It's too loud. Okay, well it isn't actually any louder, so all you need is something like the SSS QD brake shield to redirect the blast forward and the perceived loudness will probably be a little less than that of the flash hider for both you and any neighboring shooters.

It has too much flash in low/no light. Well, in addition to noise suppression, this is what your suppressor is for!  It does a great job suppressing flash. If it's that dark, ie nighttime or in a dark room, I probably don't want to be making that much noise anyway.  Also, if it's that dark I'll need some form of light to see what I am shooting.  Running a 500 lumen weapon light can be just as bright to the shooter as a brief muzzle flash.  

Basically, if you want flash suppression use your can.  If you want to run it without a can and without the concussion of a brake, get a brake shield.  You'll be extending the life of your can by a substantial amount.  For low volume shooters I guess it probably doesn't matter much, their cans will last them a lifetime and then some.

Of course this is all just my opinion, and while I enjoy arguing the merits of brakes on hosts I realize that no one is "wrong" for wanting a FH.  Just a few years ago I had nothing but flash hiders on my rifles.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 6:31:08 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
It surprises me how many people want to run flash hiders on Short barreled suppressor hosts.  Being a lifetime purchase, it isn't out of the question for a can to see many tens of thousands of rounds in its lifetime; more for people that actually shoot a decent amount.  It's pretty easy to burn off 1,000 rounds in a decent weekend of shooting.  Doing that just once a month would mean 12,000 rounds a year.  If half of that is suppressed, you're still looking at 60,000 rounds in 10 years.  I don't care what your blast baffle is made out of, that's a ton of wear.  If I can cut that wear in half (or better), why not?
View Quote

People who make this argument have little sense of economics IMO.  If you can afford the ammo required to wear out your stellite baffles, even with a flash hider mount, you can afford the new silencer.  30,000 rounds of 5.56 costs at least $6,000, and that's at reloading prices.  If you're paying $300/k like many people are, that's $9,000 worth of ammo.  You'll probably have to replace the barrel and muzzle device 2-4x during that period, call it another $500-1000.  And you're going to fret over a $700 can?  On top of that, most shooters would take 5-10 years to shoot that much, and by then there will be better silencers on the market that you want more than your old beat-up M4-2k or Saker.

Buy the mount you like most.  If you are really going to abuse your cans (full-auto or hard semi-auto on short barrels and 5,000+ rounds annually) then sure, worry about the baffle life.  Otherwise just shoot it till it breaks and get a new one.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 7:08:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Here's my Specwar 762 that has probably over 1k rounds from a 9.5 inch 5.56 and never "cleaned" it. My last trip I ran like 6 mags pretty fast through it. Didn't see any erosion on my break either.

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Link Posted: 10/24/2014 7:32:47 PM EDT
[#8]
I think you'll find that's not erosion.  Your shooting schedule was too easy to do anything to stellite.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 7:40:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

People who make this argument have little sense of economics IMO.  If you can afford the ammo required to wear out your stellite baffles, even with a flash hider mount, you can afford the new silencer.  30,000 rounds of 5.56 costs at least $6,000, and that's at reloading prices.  If you're paying $300/k like many people are, that's $9,000 worth of ammo.  You'll probably have to replace the barrel and muzzle device 2-4x during that period, call it another $500-1000.  And you're going to fret over a $700 can?  On top of that, most shooters would take 5-10 years to shoot that much, and by then there will be better silencers on the market that you want more than your old beat-up M4-2k or Saker.

Buy the mount you like most.  If you are really going to abuse your cans (full-auto or hard semi-auto on short barrels and 5,000+ rounds annually) then sure, worry about the baffle life.  Otherwise just shoot it till it breaks and get a new one.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
It surprises me how many people want to run flash hiders on Short barreled suppressor hosts.  Being a lifetime purchase, it isn't out of the question for a can to see many tens of thousands of rounds in its lifetime; more for people that actually shoot a decent amount.  It's pretty easy to burn off 1,000 rounds in a decent weekend of shooting.  Doing that just once a month would mean 12,000 rounds a year.  If half of that is suppressed, you're still looking at 60,000 rounds in 10 years.  I don't care what your blast baffle is made out of, that's a ton of wear.  If I can cut that wear in half (or better), why not?

People who make this argument have little sense of economics IMO.  If you can afford the ammo required to wear out your stellite baffles, even with a flash hider mount, you can afford the new silencer.  30,000 rounds of 5.56 costs at least $6,000, and that's at reloading prices.  If you're paying $300/k like many people are, that's $9,000 worth of ammo.  You'll probably have to replace the barrel and muzzle device 2-4x during that period, call it another $500-1000.  And you're going to fret over a $700 can?  On top of that, most shooters would take 5-10 years to shoot that much, and by then there will be better silencers on the market that you want more than your old beat-up M4-2k or Saker.

Buy the mount you like most.  If you are really going to abuse your cans (full-auto or hard semi-auto on short barrels and 5,000+ rounds annually) then sure, worry about the baffle life.  Otherwise just shoot it till it breaks and get a new one.


I understand your logic and agree for the most part, but my other arguments hold and I believe a flash hider offers very little for people who own cans.  I do a lot of night time shooting under PVS14's, and before my first can I exclusively ran Blackout flash hiders because of their great performance.  After getting my first 5.56 can, there was really no reason for me to run a FH anymore as it took care of the flash for me.  For people that own cans I feel that muzzle brakes have very few if any draw backs compared to flash hiders. Sure, this is just my opinion, but I don't really see many people getting much benefit out of them.  

A similar analogy to what you argued could apply to cars.  My car is maybe worth a few grand, and I put quite a bit of money in gas into it every month which over the course of years could easily add up to be many times the cost of the car itself.  This does not mean I don't do everything I can to prevent uneeded wear and tear on my vehicle.  I budget my monthly ammo expenses just like a do my gas.   I realize that the percentages here are a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but it is still a somewhat similar concept. It's money that I set aside to pay to keep my guns "running" and just because it adds up over time like gas money it doesn't mean I won't take the chance to possibly double my suppressors life.  

Another factor is the NFA itself...No one knows exactly how long things will remain the way they are and with possible changes like 41P or some other future rule change possibly effecting our rights I'll stick with muzzle devices that extend the life of my can.  Things like mounts themselves could possibly come under fire should another billget passed similar to the AWB of many years ago.  Threaded barrels and other similar things were a no no. Factors like this mean that I have a few extra threaded pistol barrels as well as some spare 51T brakes tucked away just in case.

Sorry for the long winded response.  Not meaning to be contrary or argumentitive and I appologize if I came of that way at all.  In reality i just enjoy talking through my reasoning, be it right or wrong, and I like to hear dissenting views as well.


Link Posted: 10/24/2014 8:17:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Brakes take some of the load off the suppressor blast baffle and more of the load with shorter barrels.
I run flash hiders on longer barrels and brakes on the shorter barrels.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 8:58:11 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


I understand your logic and agree for the most part, but my other arguments hold and I believe a flash hider offers very little for people who own cans.  I do a lot of night time shooting under PVS14's, and before my first can I exclusively ran Blackout flash hiders because of their great performance.  After getting my first 5.56 can, there was really no reason for me to run a FH anymore as it took care of the flash for me.  For people that own cans I feel that muzzle brakes have very few if any draw backs compared to flash hiders. Sure, this is just my opinion, but I don't really see many people getting much benefit out of them.  

A similar analogy to what you argued could apply to cars.  My car is maybe worth a few grand, and I put quite a bit of money in gas into it every month which over the course of years could easily add up to be many times the cost of the car itself.  This does not mean I don't do everything I can to prevent uneeded wear and tear on my vehicle.  I budget my monthly ammo expenses just like a do my gas.   I realize that the percentages here are a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but it is still a somewhat similar concept. It's money that I set aside to pay to keep my guns "running" and just because it adds up over time like gas money it doesn't mean I won't take the chance to possibly double my suppressors life.  

Another factor is the NFA itself...No one knows exactly how long things will remain the way they are and with possible changes like 41P or some other future rule change possibly effecting our rights I'll stick with muzzle devices that extend the life of my can.  Things like mounts themselves could possibly come under fire should another billget passed similar to the AWB of many years ago.  Threaded barrels and other similar things were a no no. Factors like this mean that I have a few extra threaded pistol barrels as well as some spare 51T brakes tucked away just in case.

Sorry for the long winded response.  Not meaning to be contrary or argumentitive and I appologize if I came of that way at all.  In reality i just enjoy talking through my reasoning, be it right or wrong, and I like to hear dissenting views as well.


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It surprises me how many people want to run flash hiders on Short barreled suppressor hosts.  Being a lifetime purchase, it isn't out of the question for a can to see many tens of thousands of rounds in its lifetime; more for people that actually shoot a decent amount.  It's pretty easy to burn off 1,000 rounds in a decent weekend of shooting.  Doing that just once a month would mean 12,000 rounds a year.  If half of that is suppressed, you're still looking at 60,000 rounds in 10 years.  I don't care what your blast baffle is made out of, that's a ton of wear.  If I can cut that wear in half (or better), why not?

People who make this argument have little sense of economics IMO.  If you can afford the ammo required to wear out your stellite baffles, even with a flash hider mount, you can afford the new silencer.  30,000 rounds of 5.56 costs at least $6,000, and that's at reloading prices.  If you're paying $300/k like many people are, that's $9,000 worth of ammo.  You'll probably have to replace the barrel and muzzle device 2-4x during that period, call it another $500-1000.  And you're going to fret over a $700 can?  On top of that, most shooters would take 5-10 years to shoot that much, and by then there will be better silencers on the market that you want more than your old beat-up M4-2k or Saker.

Buy the mount you like most.  If you are really going to abuse your cans (full-auto or hard semi-auto on short barrels and 5,000+ rounds annually) then sure, worry about the baffle life.  Otherwise just shoot it till it breaks and get a new one.


I understand your logic and agree for the most part, but my other arguments hold and I believe a flash hider offers very little for people who own cans.  I do a lot of night time shooting under PVS14's, and before my first can I exclusively ran Blackout flash hiders because of their great performance.  After getting my first 5.56 can, there was really no reason for me to run a FH anymore as it took care of the flash for me.  For people that own cans I feel that muzzle brakes have very few if any draw backs compared to flash hiders. Sure, this is just my opinion, but I don't really see many people getting much benefit out of them.  

A similar analogy to what you argued could apply to cars.  My car is maybe worth a few grand, and I put quite a bit of money in gas into it every month which over the course of years could easily add up to be many times the cost of the car itself.  This does not mean I don't do everything I can to prevent uneeded wear and tear on my vehicle.  I budget my monthly ammo expenses just like a do my gas.   I realize that the percentages here are a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but it is still a somewhat similar concept. It's money that I set aside to pay to keep my guns "running" and just because it adds up over time like gas money it doesn't mean I won't take the chance to possibly double my suppressors life.  

Another factor is the NFA itself...No one knows exactly how long things will remain the way they are and with possible changes like 41P or some other future rule change possibly effecting our rights I'll stick with muzzle devices that extend the life of my can.  Things like mounts themselves could possibly come under fire should another billget passed similar to the AWB of many years ago.  Threaded barrels and other similar things were a no no. Factors like this mean that I have a few extra threaded pistol barrels as well as some spare 51T brakes tucked away just in case.

Sorry for the long winded response.  Not meaning to be contrary or argumentitive and I appologize if I came of that way at all.  In reality i just enjoy talking through my reasoning, be it right or wrong, and I like to hear dissenting views as well.




I'm in this camp.  I follow the 70/30 rule.  If I'm going to shoot that rifle 70% suppressed, then it's getting a brake,  only 30%..... then a flash hider.

Fwiw, I shoot suppressed 90% of the time,  so all my rifles have brakes.
Link Posted: 10/24/2014 9:23:39 PM EDT
[#12]
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I'm in this camp.  I follow the 70/30 rule.  If I'm going to shoot that rifle 70% suppressed, then it's getting a brake,  only 30%..... then a flash hider.

Fwiw, I shoot suppressed 90% of the time,  so all my rifles have brakes.
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
It surprises me how many people want to run flash hiders on Short barreled suppressor hosts.  Being a lifetime purchase, it isn't out of the question for a can to see many tens of thousands of rounds in its lifetime; more for people that actually shoot a decent amount.  It's pretty easy to burn off 1,000 rounds in a decent weekend of shooting.  Doing that just once a month would mean 12,000 rounds a year.  If half of that is suppressed, you're still looking at 60,000 rounds in 10 years.  I don't care what your blast baffle is made out of, that's a ton of wear.  If I can cut that wear in half (or better), why not?

People who make this argument have little sense of economics IMO.  If you can afford the ammo required to wear out your stellite baffles, even with a flash hider mount, you can afford the new silencer.  30,000 rounds of 5.56 costs at least $6,000, and that's at reloading prices.  If you're paying $300/k like many people are, that's $9,000 worth of ammo.  You'll probably have to replace the barrel and muzzle device 2-4x during that period, call it another $500-1000.  And you're going to fret over a $700 can?  On top of that, most shooters would take 5-10 years to shoot that much, and by then there will be better silencers on the market that you want more than your old beat-up M4-2k or Saker.

Buy the mount you like most.  If you are really going to abuse your cans (full-auto or hard semi-auto on short barrels and 5,000+ rounds annually) then sure, worry about the baffle life.  Otherwise just shoot it till it breaks and get a new one.


I understand your logic and agree for the most part, but my other arguments hold and I believe a flash hider offers very little for people who own cans.  I do a lot of night time shooting under PVS14's, and before my first can I exclusively ran Blackout flash hiders because of their great performance.  After getting my first 5.56 can, there was really no reason for me to run a FH anymore as it took care of the flash for me.  For people that own cans I feel that muzzle brakes have very few if any draw backs compared to flash hiders. Sure, this is just my opinion, but I don't really see many people getting much benefit out of them.  

A similar analogy to what you argued could apply to cars.  My car is maybe worth a few grand, and I put quite a bit of money in gas into it every month which over the course of years could easily add up to be many times the cost of the car itself.  This does not mean I don't do everything I can to prevent uneeded wear and tear on my vehicle.  I budget my monthly ammo expenses just like a do my gas.   I realize that the percentages here are a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but it is still a somewhat similar concept. It's money that I set aside to pay to keep my guns "running" and just because it adds up over time like gas money it doesn't mean I won't take the chance to possibly double my suppressors life.  

Another factor is the NFA itself...No one knows exactly how long things will remain the way they are and with possible changes like 41P or some other future rule change possibly effecting our rights I'll stick with muzzle devices that extend the life of my can.  Things like mounts themselves could possibly come under fire should another billget passed similar to the AWB of many years ago.  Threaded barrels and other similar things were a no no. Factors like this mean that I have a few extra threaded pistol barrels as well as some spare 51T brakes tucked away just in case.

Sorry for the long winded response.  Not meaning to be contrary or argumentitive and I appologize if I came of that way at all.  In reality i just enjoy talking through my reasoning, be it right or wrong, and I like to hear dissenting views as well.




I'm in this camp.  I follow the 70/30 rule.  If I'm going to shoot that rifle 70% suppressed, then it's getting a brake,  only 30%..... then a flash hider.

Fwiw, I shoot suppressed 90% of the time,  so all my rifles have brakes.


I 100% agree here. I know I can't count on a CLEO sign off 15-25 years down the road (much less the next election cycle + 41P). So until the day they're title 1 firearms or better I treat my silencers almost (almost, almost) as if they're transferable MGs... I'll opt for a brake on a really short barreled rifle chambered for a high pressure cartridge all day, every day, 24/7, 365 and 1 fucking 4th of a day.
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