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Posted: 8/29/2014 7:46:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Me. never had a problem with CLEO and don't really have anyone I'm interested in sharing unsupervised control of my NFA stuff with. I don't subscribe to the theory that my wife is a felon-in-waiting because she has the combo to my safe, so I've never bothered with a trust. The thing that DOES intrigue me about it is faster turnaround times with eForms. I always think to myself that a trust (I would use a lawyer) would cost me a couple stamps so I've never pulled the trigger.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:15:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Me. Cleo sign off takes my sheriff less than 2 weeks to return them to me. Pics and prints cost next to nothing and are just minutes away. Been doing it this way for a long time.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 9:00:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Show of hands? Any advantages? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I do. New Utah law just passed in this session so Sheriffs have to sign off now regardless of personal opinion (not that it's ever been an issue). I don't have any family nearby or anyone else I want to share with. Local police dept has electronic fingerprints and they print me off as many copies as I want. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:11:42 PM EDT
[#4]
I do, it's so easy for me, just bring my paperwork into work and have the boss sign off on it after one of the admin girls in concealed handgun does my print cards.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:44:52 PM EDT
[#5]
I take the forms in and the Sheriff comes out into lobby and signs for me. I call to see if he's in first. Why get a Trust?
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Posted: 8/30/2014 12:50:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Show of hands? Any advantages? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I do. It's iron clad. My stamp. My item. No lawyering needed. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 4:16:29 AM EDT
[#7]
My SBRs and Suppressors are in a trust but my big ticket items (MGs) were done on individual Form 4's.
-bob Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 4:32:16 AM EDT
[#8]
All my stamps are individual.
Process is painless. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 4:33:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All my stamps are individual. Process is painless. This |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 4:41:50 AM EDT
[#10]
I am getting close to buying my first suppressor. I keep flip flopping between a trust of my own, putting it on a NFA trust a close friend already has, or doing it 'solo'. I probably just need to talk to my Class 3 dealer and see what he recommends.
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Posted: 8/30/2014 5:40:34 AM EDT
[#11]
I am over 20 stamps and all of them are individual. My local county Sheriff signs and has the forms back to me in less than 2 days.
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Posted: 8/30/2014 5:44:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am getting close to buying my first suppressor. I keep flip flopping between a trust of my own, putting it on a NFA trust a close friend already has, or doing it 'solo'. I probably just need to talk to my Class 3 dealer and see what he recommends. The advantage of the individual route.......is a trust is a fictitious entity and could be dissolved if a particular govt representative decided it should be. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 6:19:35 AM EDT
[#13]
I go solo route just because my Cleo has the following opinion about our suburb. "If you can afford to live here then you are smart enough to know the laws and spend your money how you want". Meh signs for select fire weapons cans and now thanks to new laws sbr's. Its funny because the cities around me have Cleo's with the mentality of "i will sign that over my dead body".
Its great to be in the rich suburb. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 6:38:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Pretty painless for me with CLEO signoff. But with 1 month efile form 1s I'm thinking of doing a trust for an SBR.
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Posted: 8/30/2014 7:00:13 AM EDT
[#15]
I do just cause I was too cheap to form a trust on the first one. My sheriff will sign them while I stand there and wait, and they'll do fingerprints for $10 or something. If I could go back and start over, if fork out the cash for a trust just so I could Efile. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 7:12:36 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I go solo route just because my Cleo has the following opinion about our suburb. "If you can afford to live here then you are smart enough to know the laws and spend your money how you want". Meh signs for select fire weapons cans and now thanks to new laws sbr's. Its funny because the cities around me have Cleo's with the mentality of "i will sign that over my dead body". Its great to be in the rich suburb. Even better to live in a place where even the less affluent know how to act and you have a Constitutionally sound CLEO. 
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Posted: 8/30/2014 7:42:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Me. never had a problem with CLEO and don't really have anyone I'm interested in sharing unsupervised control of my NFA stuff with. I don't subscribe to the theory that my wife is a felon-in-waiting because she has the combo to my safe, so I've never bothered with a trust. The thing that DOES intrigue me about it is faster turnaround times with eForms. I always think to myself that a trust (I would use a lawyer) would cost me a couple stamps so I've never pulled the trigger. A trust from a real lawyer here in GA only cost me 100.00 Also I though the individual route you could not pass your NFA items on to family if you die. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 8:19:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A trust from a real lawyer here in GA only cost me 100.00 Also I though the individual route you could not pass your NFA items on to family if you die. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Me. never had a problem with CLEO and don't really have anyone I'm interested in sharing unsupervised control of my NFA stuff with. I don't subscribe to the theory that my wife is a felon-in-waiting because she has the combo to my safe, so I've never bothered with a trust. The thing that DOES intrigue me about it is faster turnaround times with eForms. I always think to myself that a trust (I would use a lawyer) would cost me a couple stamps so I've never pulled the trigger. A trust from a real lawyer here in GA only cost me 100.00 Also I though the individual route you could not pass your NFA items on to family if you die. You can pass them on via form 5 |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can pass them on via form 5 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also I though the individual route you could not pass your NFA items on to family if you die. You can pass them on via form 5 That's a very common misconception. As mentioned, it transfers on a Form 5. Additionally, the F5 is tax free, so the heir doesn't have to pay the $200 again. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a very common misconception. As mentioned, it transfers on a Form 5. Additionally, the F5 is tax free, so the heir doesn't have to pay the $200 again. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 4:06:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am getting close to buying my first suppressor. I keep flip flopping between a trust of my own, putting it on a NFA trust a close friend already has, or doing it 'solo'. I probably just need to talk to my Class 3 dealer and see what he recommends. I would not buy it under your friends trust, that has the potential to cause problems later on. The trust would also have to be amended to reflect where "your" can would go should something happen to you, assuming you don't want your friend to get it. Also if y'all have a falling out sometime in the future it's going to be a pain in the ass keep your can. You will have to file another Form 4 to transfer it to yourself. The problems that could happen with this aren't worth saving a couple hundred bucks, just get your own trust or file as an individual. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 4:37:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A trust from a real lawyer here in GA only cost me 100.00 Also I though the individual route you could not pass your NFA items on to family if you die. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Me. never had a problem with CLEO and don't really have anyone I'm interested in sharing unsupervised control of my NFA stuff with. I don't subscribe to the theory that my wife is a felon-in-waiting because she has the combo to my safe, so I've never bothered with a trust. The thing that DOES intrigue me about it is faster turnaround times with eForms. I always think to myself that a trust (I would use a lawyer) would cost me a couple stamps so I've never pulled the trigger. A trust from a real lawyer here in GA only cost me 100.00 Also I though the individual route you could not pass your NFA items on to family if you die. Even if you have a trust, a form 5 has to be used when you die. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 5:11:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Me: CLEO is not an issue in my town. Actually he is more than happy to sign and excited (maybe) to see what I getting next :) I just call him direct, make an appointment and he signs while we chat about our kids, family, vacations, etc. Last visit, he signed 3 for me. Next visit he may get writers cramp
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Posted: 8/31/2014 2:02:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if you have a trust, a form 5 has to be used when you die. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Me. never had a problem with CLEO and don't really have anyone I'm interested in sharing unsupervised control of my NFA stuff with. I don't subscribe to the theory that my wife is a felon-in-waiting because she has the combo to my safe, so I've never bothered with a trust. The thing that DOES intrigue me about it is faster turnaround times with eForms. I always think to myself that a trust (I would use a lawyer) would cost me a couple stamps so I've never pulled the trigger. A trust from a real lawyer here in GA only cost me 100.00 Also I though the individual route you could not pass your NFA items on to family if you die. Even if you have a trust, a form 5 has to be used when you die. |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 2:47:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? If it is staying within the trust, there isn't any transfer. Only if it were transferred out of the trust would you need to put in on a form. A Form 4 if it is being sold to someone not entitled to receive it via the trust (perhaps to convert to money for distribution via the trust) or on a Form 5 for a transfer outside of the trust, but pursuant to the instructions of the trust or a last testament. At least that's how I understand it. Not a lawyer...but I think what I've read is it takes a Form 5 to go from trustee to beneficiary. Someone will correct/clarify if that's not right. No F5 needed if it simply moves from one Trustee to another. My plan is to change my son from Beneficiary to Trustee as soon as he's of age (assuming he's responsible at that point...he's only 7 now, so who knows?). At that point we'd name another beneficiary. That process would continue down through the generations. It also depends on the state, as perpetual trusts aren't allowed everywhere and things get handled differently. |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 2:52:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a lawyer...but I think what I've read is it takes a Form 5 to go from trustee to beneficiary. My plan is to change my son from Beneficiary to Trustee as soon as he's of age (assuming he's responsible at that point...he's only 7 now, so who knows?). At that point we'd name another beneficiary. That process would continue down through the generations. It also depends on the state, as perpetual trusts aren't allowed everywhere and things get handled differently. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why? If it is staying within the trust, there isn't any transfer. Only if it were transferred out of the trust would you need to put in on a form. A Form 4 if it is being sold to someone not entitled to receive it via the trust (perhaps to convert to money for distribution via the trust) or on a Form 5 for a transfer outside of the trust, but pursuant to the instructions of the trust or a last testament. At least that's how I understand it. Not a lawyer...but I think what I've read is it takes a Form 5 to go from trustee to beneficiary. My plan is to change my son from Beneficiary to Trustee as soon as he's of age (assuming he's responsible at that point...he's only 7 now, so who knows?). At that point we'd name another beneficiary. That process would continue down through the generations. It also depends on the state, as perpetual trusts aren't allowed everywhere and things get handled differently. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 3:11:15 PM EDT
[#27]
I bought a trust to buy 2 cans while I was in A-stan. I probably wouldn't have gone trust otherwise. If I call ahead and the Sheriff isn't busy, the form is signed before my fingerprints are done.
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Posted: 8/31/2014 4:53:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. But that effectively puts it outside the trust at that point. Once the beneficiary takes the distribution, it becomes the property of the beneficiary. It is no longer trust property and you are correct, that transfer would require a tax free Form 5. But if the beneficiary becomes the new trustee (or potentially co-trustee), then they can possess it as trust property and no transfer has occurred. All subject to particulars and nuances, of course. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why? If it is staying within the trust, there isn't any transfer. Only if it were transferred out of the trust would you need to put in on a form. A Form 4 if it is being sold to someone not entitled to receive it via the trust (perhaps to convert to money for distribution via the trust) or on a Form 5 for a transfer outside of the trust, but pursuant to the instructions of the trust or a last testament. At least that's how I understand it. Not a lawyer...but I think what I've read is it takes a Form 5 to go from trustee to beneficiary. My plan is to change my son from Beneficiary to Trustee as soon as he's of age (assuming he's responsible at that point...he's only 7 now, so who knows?). At that point we'd name another beneficiary. That process would continue down through the generations. It also depends on the state, as perpetual trusts aren't allowed everywhere and things get handled differently. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. when the grantor of a revokable living trust dies, the trust becomes non-revokable and no new trustees or beneficiaries can be named also, NFA assets may be transferred on form 5 to a new trust created by the beneficiary at the time of distribution |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 5:31:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
when the grantor of a revokable living trust dies, the trust becomes non-revokable and no new trustees or beneficiaries can be named also, NFA assets may be transferred on form 5 to a new trust created by the beneficiary at the time of distribution Quote HistoryQuoted:
when the grantor of a revokable living trust dies, the trust becomes non-revokable and no new trustees or beneficiaries can be named also, NFA assets may be transferred on form 5 to a new trust created by the beneficiary at the time of distribution And this is why I used a lawyer for mine. I got into a similar discussion before and asked my lawyer to clarify about the items being tied to the grantor with a living trust... I'll repost one of my earlier posts to explain how mine works: Originally Posted By BigWaylon
I sent the following email to the lawyer that wrote my trust (just so there's no confusion of exactly how I worded my question): In a discussion with a guy online that does gun trusts in TX (so I know there may be differences between states). He said:
"It is fine to change the trustee and beneficiary but when you as the Grantor (or settlor) die the items will then need to be transferred to the beneficiary (whoever it is). Generally you can't change the Grantor of a trust and a living trust is tied to the Grantors life." The comment was based on me saying I have a trust, with successor trustees, and my son as beneficiary. If I was to die, and Lucas wasn't old enough, another trustee or the successor trustee could maintain possession of the NFA items. My long term plan would be to have my son become a trustee when he's of age, and we name another beneficiary (hopefully his children at some point). This cycle would continue with each generation, having the beneficiary become a trustee and a new beneficiary being named. Did I not understand the process from the beginning? Or is my Living Trust that's in NC different than what he's saying? And he responded: What he is describing is the way that a living trust normally works, and it is true that the grantor of the trust doesn't change. Yours is set up as a perpetual trust, so the part about having to transfer items to the beneficiary when the grantor dies doesn't apply. Instead, yours becomes an irrevocable trust and the items stay in it on an ongoing basis, potentially generation after generation until someone decides to take them out.
So he's not wrong, but you have a different type of trust from what he's talking about. Hopefully that clears it up. So...all trusts are not equal, but mine does work the way I intended. At least here in NC. |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 6:45:16 PM EDT
[#30]
I go individual as well. Never had a problem with sign offs. I thought about a trust but it would cost me $7200 to transfer my stuff over. I feel I am safer because they keep changing the rules for trusts and such, depending on where you live. Even if corps and trusts are no longer valid for NFA, it won't affect me. However, I cannot freely share my stuff with others which is a bummer.
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:21:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a lawyer...but I think what I've read is it takes a Form 5 to go from trustee to beneficiary. Someone will correct/clarify if that's not right. No F5 needed if it simply moves from one Trustee to another. My plan is to change my son from Beneficiary to Trustee as soon as he's of age (assuming he's responsible at that point...he's only 7 now, so who knows?). At that point we'd name another beneficiary. That process would continue down through the generations. It also depends on the state, as perpetual trusts aren't allowed everywhere and things get handled differently. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why? If it is staying within the trust, there isn't any transfer. Only if it were transferred out of the trust would you need to put in on a form. A Form 4 if it is being sold to someone not entitled to receive it via the trust (perhaps to convert to money for distribution via the trust) or on a Form 5 for a transfer outside of the trust, but pursuant to the instructions of the trust or a last testament. At least that's how I understand it. Not a lawyer...but I think what I've read is it takes a Form 5 to go from trustee to beneficiary. Someone will correct/clarify if that's not right. No F5 needed if it simply moves from one Trustee to another. My plan is to change my son from Beneficiary to Trustee as soon as he's of age (assuming he's responsible at that point...he's only 7 now, so who knows?). At that point we'd name another beneficiary. That process would continue down through the generations. It also depends on the state, as perpetual trusts aren't allowed everywhere and things get handled differently. ^This. It depends on how your trust is drawn up and your state laws. If the NFA items in the trust are ever transferred to the beneficiary, that will happen tax-free on a Form 5. If the trust is set up to exist in perpetuity beyond the life of the grantor, no transfer takes place. Make sure your trust is drawn up the way you want it. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 3:18:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am over 20 stamps and all of them are individual. My local county Sheriff signs and has the forms back to me in less than 2 days. Same here. I get them signed and back within like 2-3 days tops. |
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