 Aaron556 
Member
Joined: May 2009  OH, USA
 Posts: 368 Feedback: 100% (4) |
Posted: 7/28/2012 1:49:24 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 1:56:21 PM
There's still plenty of blowback coming from the chamber.
Each style rifle will be slightly different so shoot it first before buying a gas buster. |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 2:28:08 PM
Originally Posted By Rocker:
There's still plenty of blowback coming from the chamber. Each style rifle will be slightly different so shoot it first before buying a gas buster. Damn. I was hoping a piston system was the magical "cure". |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 2:48:57 PM
Originally Posted By Aaron556: Originally Posted By Rocker: There's still plenty of blowback coming from the chamber. Each style rifle will be slightly different so shoot it first before buying a gas buster. Damn. I was hoping a piston system was the magical "cure". Piston systems are louder, due to the vented gas. |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 2:51:36 PM
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Originally Posted By Rocker:
There's still plenty of blowback coming from the chamber. Each style rifle will be slightly different so shoot it first before buying a gas buster. Damn. I was hoping a piston system was the magical "cure". I'm still trying to figure out what pistons are suppose to be curing in the first place? Sorry to go off topic. |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 2:53:08 PM
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 2:54:25 PM by Rocker]
Nope, still plenty of cleaning to do too.
 Good gas adjustment and buffers help but you can only do so much. Again it depends on the style/design .
.556/223 is still going to have a sonic crack anyway and 300BLK is much better on both counts (with subs). |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 4:51:14 PM
Originally Posted By Rocker:
Nope, still plenty of cleaning to do too. Good gas adjustment and buffers help but you can only do so much. Again it depends on the style/design .
.556/223 is still going to have a sonic crack anyway and 300BLK is much better on both counts (with subs). Buffers? |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 5:41:57 PM
Get the suppressor...a 762 can, mind you
Your host is not the best choice for a suppressor as it is louder (as previously stated), and it makes the gun (even more) front heavy. Nice gun, but you will likely prefer to run your can on any of your other DI ARs. ~WTS |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 11:41:43 PM
I have a LMT MRP 12" piston gun and use it suppressed most often with a Gemtech M4-02 can. Yes, there is still some gas blowback, but nothing that comes back out of the charging handle with the ones LMT sells with the gun. The fouling in the receiver is noticeably less and it runs longer without having to add lube or clean than my DI guns with a can which get filty pretty quick. I have shot many classes with it so I have quite a few rounds downrange. I have not put a dosimeter on it to measure the sound difference from my DI guns with the can on, but it is NOT any louder from my perspective - though it is true that gas is vented from the gas block as stated by others. It is very nice on the LMT piston to be able to select between suppressed and unsuppressed settings by simple rotation of the piston. It is also nice to be able to clean the piston without removing the handguards. This is not the case on all piston guns.
You will hear alot of different opinions on pistons here. I like mine specifically for suppressed use. I like my DI guns too (Colt, Bushmaster, LMT, Knights) and have no axe to grind on the subject. Run the DI guns wet and they operate fine. Let your conscience be your guide. |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 11:50:17 PM
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 11:50:43 PM by Aaron556]
Originally Posted By WhatsThatSmell:
Get the suppressor...a 762 can, mind you
Your host is not the best choice for a suppressor as it is louder (as previously stated), and it makes the gun (even more) front heavy. Nice gun, but you will likely prefer to run your can on any of your other DI ARs. ~WTS Why a 7.62 Can on a 5.56 rifle? |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 11:56:23 PM
Originally Posted By TDunn:
I have a LMT MRP 12" piston gun and use it suppressed most often with a Gemtech M4-02 can. Yes, there is still some gas blowback, but nothing that comes back out of the charging handle with the ones LMT sells with the gun. The fouling in the receiver is noticeably less and it runs longer without having to add lube or clean than my DI guns with a can which get filty pretty quick. I have shot many classes with it so I have quite a few rounds downrange. I have not put a dosimeter on it to measure the sound difference from my DI guns with the can on, but it is NOT any louder from my perspective - though it is true that gas is vented from the gas block as stated by others. It is very nice on the LMT piston to be able to select between suppressed and unsuppressed settings by simple rotation of the piston. It is also nice to be able to clean the piston without removing the handguards. This is not the case on all piston guns. You will hear alot of different opinions on pistons here. I like mine specifically for suppressed use. I like my DI guns too (Colt, Bushmaster, LMT, Knights) and have no axe to grind on the subject. Run the DI guns wet and they operate fine. Let your conscience be your guide. My SIG516 also has the suppressor setting. What's the advantage of having that setting over no choice at all on a DI rifle? |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 12:22:06 AM
It automatically compensates for the different pressures generated by having a can vs not so that the gun reliably cycles without having to modify internals to compensate for overgassing using the can like on a DI gun. Makes going from unsuppressed to suppressed shooting quick and painless.
I think the other poster was recommending a 7.62 can so that it would be useable on both 5.56 and 7.62 systems. Flexibility for those who don't have dedicated uppers and want to move their equipment around. I keep my 7.62 stuff on my 7.62s and my 5.56 on 5.56 - but I have quite a few to leave in place. |
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cms81586
Need More Guns...
Team Member
Joined: Feb 2001 AZ, USA
Posts: 8334 Feedback: 100% (41) Link To This Post |
Posted: 7/29/2012 2:04:41 AM
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Originally Posted By Rocker:
There's still plenty of blowback coming from the chamber. Each style rifle will be slightly different so shoot it first before buying a gas buster. Damn. I was hoping a piston system was the magical "cure". Piston systems are louder, due to the vented gas. This...they're louder and you still have blowback. |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 11:56:07 AM
Originally Posted By TDunn:
It automatically compensates for the different pressures generated by having a can vs not so that the gun reliably cycles without having to modify internals to compensate for overgassing using the can like on a DI gun. Makes going from unsuppressed to suppressed shooting quick and painless. I think the other poster was recommending a 7.62 can so that it would be useable on both 5.56 and 7.62 systems. Flexibility for those who don't have dedicated uppers and want to move their equipment around. I keep my 7.62 stuff on my 7.62s and my 5.56 on 5.56 - but I have quite a few to leave in place. Sorry for all the questions. So, you are saying that a DI gun self-regulates itself making going from suppressed to unsuppressed easier or a piston gun self-regulates? Why would some piston guns be louder than others? Is the SIG516 louder than others? |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 6:25:57 PM
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Sorry for all the questions. So, you are saying that a DI gun self-regulates itself making going from suppressed to unsuppressed easier or a piston gun self-regulates? Why would some piston guns be louder than others? Is the SIG516 louder than others? Pistons with a suppressed and unsuppressed setting (like the LMT I have but there are others) regulate the gas needed to cycle the bolt accounting for the extra backpressure caused by using a can. While I haven't tried all the piston guns out there, my experience is that they are not louder than DI suppressed. I also have not put a sound dosimeter on them - so my observation is subjective. I do not have a SIG516 so can't comment on it specifically. The reason that some folks say pistons are louder is that they vent the extra gas pressure in the front of the gun by the gas block. Most of those folks don't care for pistons in the first place, so in absence of data - I'm sticking with my first hand observations. I prefer the piston for suppressed use as it tends to keep the fouling and high temperatures in the front of the gun so it runs longer without needing lube or cleaning. It is also easier to clean up afterwards comparatively. Suppressors make guns messy. I now run my DI guns unsuppressed and they run fine when wet (lubed). There is a Piston forum on the AR15 page where you can get more information on piston ARs. They are a controversial subject. |
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autumnsong
Member
Team Member
Joined: Apr 2004 MT, USA
Posts: 2393 Feedback: 100% (7) Link To This Post |
Posted: 7/29/2012 9:20:59 PM
Originally Posted By TDunn:
I have a LMT MRP 12" piston gun and use it suppressed most often with a Gemtech M4-02 can. Yes, there is still some gas blowback, but nothing that comes back out of the charging handle with the ones LMT sells with the gun. The fouling in the receiver is noticeably less and it runs longer without having to add lube or clean than my DI guns with a can which get filty pretty quick. I have shot many classes with it so I have quite a few rounds downrange. I have not put a dosimeter on it to measure the sound difference from my DI guns with the can on, but it is NOT any louder from my perspective - though it is true that gas is vented from the gas block as stated by others. It is very nice on the LMT piston to be able to select between suppressed and unsuppressed settings by simple rotation of the piston. It is also nice to be able to clean the piston without removing the handguards. This is not the case on all piston guns. You will hear alot of different opinions on pistons here. I like mine specifically for suppressed use. I like my DI guns too (Colt, Bushmaster, LMT, Knights) and have no axe to grind on the subject. Run the DI guns wet and they operate fine. Let your conscience be your guide. I agree with the above post and it is very similar to my findings. I have a AA piston on a 11.5" SBR AR with a YHM 556 QD suppressor. No noticeable difference to me in sound level; And if I recall from people who actually test that sort of thing it was only 4 dB. Barely noticeable on an AR. I can also say that without a doubt there is less blowback now that I have the AA piston then before when I didn't. I like my suppressed AR much better now with the AA piston then before. I have also shot several classes with it and have had no problems. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 11:21:13 PM
I too have an AA setup on my AR with YHM 762 can. Use the can on that gun and DI gun. Blowback is less on piston gun but as stated already still need to clean it and the piston makes the gun front heavy. I dont mind it a bit though. Also something to think about, my DI suppressed eats any ammo, my piston gun only likes quality ammo, once in awhile ill get a stove pipe or two. I suggest shooting both variants if possible, suppressed and not suppressed
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weaponoutfitters
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Joined: Mar 2011 WA, USA
Posts: 2196 Feedback: 100% (24) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/2/2012 4:57:01 AM
Fouling from suppressor use is due to the captured propellant gasses in the suppressor/barrel being pulled back into the receiver area by the action of the fired cartridge case being pulled out of the chamber and extracted. This obviously, causes a suction effect and the propellant gasses now get deposited inside your receiver.
The amount of extra fouling from increased port pressures with a suppressor on are minimal with a DI gun is minimal IMHO. A DI gun and a Piston gun will jam up (from excess carbon build up under the trigger) with a HK416 and Noveske switchblocked gun at the 2K mark alike, a fact that was demonstrated by the fine folks from The Gun Gallery in Jacksonville, FL. |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 7:43:25 PM
My sig 556 is very clearly louder then my AR, and has a tad (very small diff) less blowback.
FYI, 3db is a doubling of the sound's energy, so 4db would be a noticable difference to most people. |
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