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USMCMidn
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Posted: 7/22/2012 6:50:12 PM

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Is it true that any bullet that produces a muzzle velocity under 1,050 fps or less is subsonic?

Also what are some good 9mm subsonic ammo?

Good .40 S&W ammo?

and lastly good 556 that will properly feed and not make your ar essentially a "bolt gun"? ? ?
nismo542
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Posted: 7/22/2012 7:00:42 PM
[Last Edit: 7/22/2012 7:05:55 PM by nismo542]
<1200 fps depending on temp humidity. In really short barrels even standard velocity can be sub sonic, but would still have a loud pop from the standard ammo of powder. The rating for ammo velocity is for a specific barrel length.

Most 147 gr 9mm is subsonic. There is some 158 gr also. Factory subsonic ammo tends to be expensive.
WhatsThatSmell
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Posted: 7/22/2012 7:25:21 PM
No factory 556 ammo will cycle the action. Only tuned handloads/rifles will cycle subs...

300BLK is another story...

And i believe its the 180gr 40's that are subsonic...I don't have a 40, so please don't quote me.

~WTS
LMTRocks
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Posted: 7/22/2012 11:26:44 PM
180gr .40s are subsonic. with a .40 or .45 can they suppress very well. Mid 120db readings from what I've seen SilencerCo show on youtube.
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AN94NK
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Posted: 7/23/2012 1:51:29 AM
When choosing .22 ammo I always look for stuff thats 1150 fps & under.

But it all depends on the temp and elevation
USMCMidn
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Posted: 7/23/2012 2:37:25 AM
Would having a shorter buffer tube or something help with cycling of subsonic ammo?

Whitebrad25
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Posted: 7/23/2012 2:57:54 AM
Like others have said...main factors include humitidy, temp, and barrel length.

I live in Texas so I don't have that much to worry about because it is always so F'n hot!
chemcmndr
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Posted: 7/23/2012 8:10:00 PM
Since speed of sound is temperature/humidity dependent, most manufacturers shoot for the 800-1000 fps range with subsonic loads to give a margin of error. Usually they try and stay out of the "transsonic" region because there you get rounds where some go supersonic, some don't, but they're louder either way.

For 9mm, most commercial 147 grain and 158 grain are subsonic. I've been able to load some light 124 grain that is subsonic-transsonic.

Not sure about .40

Again, short of handloading and tuning your rifle, no subsonic .223 will cycle the AR, and even with subsonics, you severely limit your terminal performance of the round. With a full power 5.56 round and a suppressor, you take care of the muzzle blast, but the sonic crack of the bullet traveling through the air is still there. From downrange, a suppressed supersonic .223 is still difficult to distinguish where it came from and it is "tolerable" to stand near one being fired without hearing protection.
Former11BRAVO
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Posted: 7/23/2012 8:53:05 PM
Any sources for SS in. 308?

My buddy says he'll make me some, but I've been waiting over year - and I'd really like to see just how effective my HVT actually is!

Thanks!
chemcmndr
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Posted: 7/25/2012 12:56:35 AM
Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO:
Any sources for SS in. 308?

My buddy says he'll make me some, but I've been waiting over year - and I'd really like to see just how effective my HVT actually is!

Thanks!


Commercially? I can't recall seeing any. If there is, it's going to be specialty, and probably expensive. If you handload, you can make your own without too much difficulty. Another option is to get a chamber adapter to let you shoot small pistol calibers in your .308 rifle, like .32 caliber.
LMTRocks
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Posted: 7/25/2012 8:49:27 AM
[Last Edit: 7/25/2012 9:00:16 AM by LMTRocks]
AIM has .308 180gr subs for $21.95 here . They're out of GUNN Blackout in 180 though.

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USMCMidn
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Posted: 7/27/2012 11:33:51 AM
Has anyone had success hand loading 556 subs?

If someone was to hand load a sub 556 that fed properly, what would it look like?

For example 55 gr fmj etc... ?
peekay
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Posted: 7/27/2012 1:55:57 PM
Is there a specific reason you're using 5.56 subs?

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jt526
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Posted: 7/27/2012 4:51:59 PM
Originally Posted By USMCMidn:
Has anyone had success hand loading 556 subs?

If someone was to hand load a sub 556 that fed properly, what would it look like?

For example 55 gr fmj etc... ?


EBR has some that cycle (I have never seen them in person) and either they are unobtanium or super expensive.

Anything in the 55gr to 62gr range Aguila SSS 60gr 22lr pretty much does with a conversion kit and is much less hassle and cheaper.
Panta_Rei
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Posted: 7/28/2012 5:39:33 PM
Originally Posted By WhatsThatSmell:
No factory 556 ammo will cycle the action. Only tuned handloads/rifles will cycle subs...

300BLK is another story...

And i believe its the 180gr 40's that are subsonic...I don't have a 40, so please don't quote me.

~WTS


Correct all 180gr and if you can find it 200gr in 40 are subs; the 165gr COULD be depending on load and barrel length.

WhatsThatSmell
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Posted: 7/28/2012 5:54:45 PM
I have some EBR in 556 and 762, and it does NOT cycle in ANY of my guns.

YMMV, but I doubt it.

$50 a box, and had to drive 2 hours to get it.

~WTS
NH-Handgunner
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Posted: 7/28/2012 9:04:22 PM
I can only speak for 9mm subsonics, all listed are 147gr except the 140gr S+B
I've shot each of them, and still have many on hand from a few years ago, when they were most all around $210/1000 pre-election.
All are subsonic in my pistols of course, and in my semi auto rifles up to 16"

* Federal American Eagle AE9N2 round nose
* CCI Blazer TMJ aluminum case round nose, alum cases not reccommended to reload. (no lead is exposed to the powder charge)
* Speer Lawman round nose

The following are flat or truncated noses that may or may not feed in your system. They work fine in 3/4 of my toys:
* AE9FP flat point
* Winchester Winclean BEB (no lead is exposed to the powder charge)
* S+B 140gr probably the quietest of all 9mm subs I've shot suppressed, including my own optimal reloads

Many can be found here: Natchez

I've not tried, but Georgia Ammo 147gr reloads are said to be reliable and quiet, but their prices have caught up to commercial ammo @ $280/1000
I no longer buy factory 9mm subs, they simply cost too much IMO
Of course you can do quite well by reloading your own. i.e. quieter, less expensive, tuned for your guns, much more enjoyable to shoot, etc.
A hobby for your hobby, and its quite easy to reload pistol caliber ammo reliably!
USMCMidn
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Posted: 8/5/2012 4:32:03 PM
[Last Edit: 8/5/2012 4:32:46 PM by USMCMidn]
Now will using a supersonic bullet in a suppressor damage the suppressor?

For example a supersonic 556 bullet in a can... will it ruin the can?

Will the can reduce noise (except the sonic boom)? Will it work at all or not really?
ABNglocker
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Posted: 8/5/2012 8:41:28 PM
A standard full power load should not damage a can. However, if your worried about it, i would consult the manufactorer. My AAC cyclone has not seen a single sub sonic load yet. All it has had through it is Black hills 175 and 118lr.
USMCMidn
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Posted: 8/6/2012 2:31:54 AM
Does a can reduce the noise a bit with sonic loads?
TrojanMan
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Posted: 8/6/2012 12:26:42 PM
Originally Posted By USMCMidn:
Does a can reduce the noise a bit with sonic loads?


Absolutely.


Ask yourself why there is a report at all. It is the expansion of high-pressure gasses into a low-pressure environment. That rapid expansion creates a pressure wave and, of course, those waves are what we hear. Any time you have high-pressure fluids released into a low-pressure environment, you're going to have a sound wave generated from it. Engine exhaust, a balloon popping, even thunder or the sound of electric arc (energy release heats up the surrounding air).

The suppressor only affects the muzzle report, or the release of propellant gasses into the atmosphere. It's essentially a volume chamber that holds onto the gasses longer, releasing them more slowly and at a lower pressure. Lower pressure drop = less sound.

The forward motion of the bullet does the same thing. The bullet has to move the air out of the way as it passes. The air is accelerated and compressed, and then it rapidly decompresses as the bullet passes. When the bullet travels faster than the speed of sound, it propagates a shock wave in that compression zone. Subsonic bullets still make noise, but there is no leading edge shockwave.

A suppressor helps out with either sub- or supersonic ammunition, but people select subsonic ammunition because the effect is much more dramatic - it is often hearing safe as well.
USMCMidn
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Posted: 8/6/2012 8:55:39 PM
Ahh well thank you for the response, very informative.
No2sc2
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Posted: 8/7/2012 10:44:22 PM
Do you HAVE to run subsonic and supersonic? Can I run regular 115gr ammo?