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Gorilla
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Posted: 5/31/2006 7:12:44 PM
[Last Edit: 5/31/2006 7:12:44 PM by tony_k]
With the mod's approval, I'd like to post pics of my .22LR muzzle can "enroute". My goal is a suppressor for .22LR only which will be mounted on a 5" Kuehl bbl.

I am not happy with the appearance of a small .22 muzzle can on an AR due to the midget diameter... it just doesn't look right! By going from 6" long by 1" dia (typical of a CAC-22 and similar) to a jumbo 1.75" dia X 8" long, I hope to approach the elusive "hollywood quiet", as well as simply have one of correct scale.

I contemplated K baffles and other modern configurations, but decided to initially use older technology. I am going to make the can modular and upgradeable, so I can improve the can later if I want to. I am hoping that the huge internals of this can, even with the old technology, will be nice and quiet.

I have gathered up a large assortment of DOM tube. The can will be carbon steel. After testing, if it works as I hope, I will park the internals, and possibly moly-cote (or park) the tube itself.

WARNING! DO NOT MAKE A CAN, NOT EVEN A SINGLE BAFFLE, WITHOUT A BATFE APPROVED FORM 1 IN HAND!!!!!! DON'T BECOME BUBBA'S B***H BY BREAKING THE LAW!

Mods, if this is inappropriate, delete this thread.

Facing the ends of the tube



The base threads, 3/4 done


More to come!
Gorilla
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Posted: 5/7/2006 11:15:38 AM
Look closely at this picture:



You can see on the right baffle a .032" shelf. The rims of the baffle on the left connect to this shelf and prevent the baffles from rotating relative to each other.
le3045
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Posted: 5/3/2006 12:21:41 AM
could you please explain how you keep the square baffles from becoming mis aligned? thanks Lee
tony_k
Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name...
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Posted: 5/31/2006 7:11:37 PM
I am moving this to the new supppressor forum. Hopefully, someone over there with the ability to tack it will do so.
This is Tony K, and I approved this message.
wrhk33
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Posted: 4/10/2006 3:06:48 AM



I'd like to build a silencer for a 10/22 that looks like a full length bull barrel... If the tube is 20" long and fitted over a 8"barrel, does the tube need to be permanetly attached to the barrel and the baffles removable from the front cap only? It seems if the tube was removable from the barrel, I would also need to register the 10/22 as a SBR.

Yes the tube would need to be permanently attached if it is not a SBR.


Or can I just make sure and keep the tube on the gun until the stock is removed?

If your 10/22 is not a SBR then you cannot have the short barrel on it even when the stock is removed as it was never a pistol.


Sorry for the noob questions guys... just wanted to make sure of these things before I mailed off the forms.

Thanks!!



CSM
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Posted: 4/10/2006 3:09:30 AM
tag
Screwy? Ain't It?
David_Hineline
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Posted: 4/21/2005 8:47:56 PM
I covet your threading tool, You are building way heavy for a 22lr can, If you want more volume, you can just buy a .223 M16 can and shoot 22lr through it.

But it looks like you like to build yourself, have fun.
Class 3 shooters blow thier load faster and with just one pull on the trigger
jbj16
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Posted: 4/22/2005 1:46:14 AM
gorilla

read your post. been there with the "hollywood quiet " can using 22LR subsonics, you can read my post in this forum Reflex-OPS Hybrid, and view pics of my new can thanks to Fiz.
usagold
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Posted: 4/22/2005 6:59:52 AM
keep us up to date. I have wonted to build one under a form 1 for a long time.
Gorilla
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Posted: 4/22/2005 9:33:41 AM
I take it then that this thread is a "go". I will continue to build and add pictures.

jbj16, I'll look for your stuff. I know this effort (big, fat .22LR can) isn't novel or new, it's just something I've wanted to do myself for a while. By being the manufacturer, I can modify and repair the can and remain legal.

It's going to be intentionally heavy. I chose thicker-walled tubing so as to produce coarser threads, and the baffles will be likewise heavier than a commercial unit. It might be able to take 5.56 semi, but being mild carbon steel, there's no way it can handle a lot of heat or sustained fire. The threads in the picture are 24 TPI, a tad coarse but easy to cut.

My Kuehl bbl is threaded 1/2 X 28 right now. I am strongly leaning towards turning the bbl to create a two-point mount. BBL OD is 0.875". I'm thinking about cutting a 5/8" X 24 thread section about 2" aft of the muzzle, and turning down or parting off the current 1/2" threaded section.


The internal thread section has just been relieved at the bottom of the threads. Note the tool which has just cut the groove at somewhat greater than full thread depth. This allows the single-point threading tool to come to a halt "in air" after making a threading pass. It's always a bit exciting threading up to a shoulder! My lathe has a thread-tool kickout which disengages the carriage at a specific Z location, so I can drive the tool into a narrow groove and have it reliably stop without having to frantically slap at the half-nut, or fiddle with the X axis.
joeblack
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Posted: 4/22/2005 11:01:56 AM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 11:03:07 AM by joeblack]

Looks nice.


Add some cam followers to the steady rest !
m60joe@m60joe.com
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Posted: 4/22/2005 1:11:40 PM
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 1:12:45 PM by SBR7_11]
Swede ? I recognize the URL on the pics... This fellas work is awesome if you have seen previous posted work the last yr or so.

I still have not finished looking at the stuff on the homepage, there is some impressive stuff there.
Gorilla
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Posted: 4/22/2005 6:43:39 PM
Busted! Thanks for the kind comments. I tried to register here at AR15.COM as Swede but the handle was already taken.

The suppressor build continues...

I am more or less making this up as I go along, but I have an internal layout in mind. I'll see if I can't get a JPG up of my internals. For now, the external/easy parts are coming along nicely, altho very heavy. That's OK, it's not a pistol can.

The end cap is turned from 12L14 mild, leaded steel, really easy stuff to turn. The threads match the tube, and are 1/2" long. The interior is hollowed out into a semi-rounded chamber. I intentionally left a lot of meat in the end cap so that I can bore and if necessary change the diameter of the exit hole, which is 0.250" for now.



I parted off the end cap, gave the rim a coin knurl (which can be removed later if I don't like the looks.) Installed on the tube, the rough parted surface is trued relative to the tube axis.



I also drilled (not thru) a set of holes for a pin wrench. Still on the tube, the thickness of the end cap is obvious. For now, I am ignoring the tube finish... everything is focused on the accuracy of the bore and the internals. The LAST thing I'll do is turn the exterior of the tube concentric with the tube's bore, and give it a nice finish.


The challenging muzzle end is next, then the baffles and the remainder of the internals!
warhound
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Posted: 4/22/2005 8:32:25 PM
This is a great write up. Please keep the pics coming. I plan to build in the future, and this will help me out greatly.

Mods: Is there a way to get a tack on this post, some great info for us home builders.
David_Hineline
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Posted: 4/23/2005 12:13:06 AM
I have never done a coin knurl, it looks good, I would think since the Knurl has a specific spacing that if the diam of the material was not just right for the spacing there would be a point on the knurl where the spacing was not quite right?

Seeing what real lathes can do makes me covet something other than my chicom combo machine.
Class 3 shooters blow thier load faster and with just one pull on the trigger
Gorilla
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Posted: 4/23/2005 10:34:48 AM

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I have never done a coin knurl, it looks good, I would think since the Knurl has a specific spacing that if the diam of the material was not just right for the spacing there would be a point on the knurl where the spacing was not quite right?

Seeing what real lathes can do makes me covet something other than my chicom combo machine.



David, the knurler doing the honors is a Quick brand knurler. This style of knurler is different in that the knurling wheel actually cuts the metal rather than forming it with pressure. Don't ask me how it does it, but it's like magic, and forms knurls with very low pressure. I understand your question, which applies more to coarser diamond knurls. With this thing, I simply feed it in until the knurl looks good. It cuts until I stop the infeed, and it basically (and automatically) creates knurls without skipping or bad spacing.

Quick knurlers are usually >$150... I bought mine used for $10, along with an AXA holder.

I'd like some opinions from you guys. I can't decide whether to go with a standard 1/2" X 28 single-point mount which is typical of almost all .22LR cans, or turn my Kuehl down and execute a two-point mount.

Pro's - 2-point mount will be stronger and more accurate for alignment, and allows the creation of a modest blast chamber area behind the muzzle. May need to cross drill bbl to bleed gasses, something I'm loathe to do. Shorter OAL of weapon.

Cons - the mount is now pretty much proprietary to the bbl... suppressor cannot be moved to another gun without extensive mods to the new bbl. But it's not like I'm going to hang this can on a P22!

Thoughts? I'm leaning towards 2-point.

warhound
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Posted: 4/23/2005 10:47:11 AM
[Last Edit: 4/23/2005 10:48:56 AM by warhound]
I say 2 point for the blast chamber. Looks better with a 2 point with longer barrels. Just my 2 cents.
David_Hineline
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Posted: 4/23/2005 8:14:38 PM
Check your 22upper, if it won't cycle with subsonic ammo you will need to shorten the barrel or port the velocity out into a 2 point mount chamber in the silencer,
Class 3 shooters blow thier load faster and with just one pull on the trigger
pathfinder74
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Posted: 4/24/2005 1:09:05 AM
tag
"I will be much more tactical when I walk home from the grocery store once I get that Pointman. With a mere Camelbak Motherlode the ninjas might be able to steal my Pop Tarts if I get attacked on the way home." - Aimless
jbj16
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Posted: 4/24/2005 3:08:43 AM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2005 7:57:33 AM by jbj16]
Gorilla Hi!

How about this project?
Gorilla
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Posted: 4/24/2005 1:30:07 PM
Sweet! Any photos of the internals? What is the OD of the tube?

Mine will differ a bit in that it will be on a really dinky Kuehl bbl. The OD of the tube right now is at 1.750", which is the ID of both floating handguards that I have. By turning the finished can down maybe 0.032", it'll fit inside the handguard. It'll look a bit like a dedicated & suppressed 9mm upper. Optics will be required, I'm leaving no method for a front site, altho one might be mountable on the handguard's rail.

Here's my concept for a very simple 2-point mount. I don't want to make it too big as I simply don't have that much bbl length to spare right now. The bbl measures 6.5" from breech to muzzle. I'm thinking 2" or so.


The bbl threads will be .750 X 32. The muzzle end will be turned smooth to 0.625" OD. Internal boring of the bbl will be 0.437" X 0.750" long. This bored area will be cross-drilled to bleed gasses, and the muzzle support washer will also be drilled to allow gasses to flow. Gunk will build up on the bbl exterior, but it will still be removable with ease as the muzzle end OD is less than the 0.750" threads.

I'm thinking a good way to port the bbl will be to apply the flank of a 3/8" end mill to the side of the bbl. As it breaks through, it'll leave a sharp edge internally, which will flare out to the blast chamber area.

I haven't turned any more of the suppressor, just spent some time and thought on this area. Thoughts?
jbj16
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Posted: 4/25/2005 5:54:37 AM
[Last Edit: 4/25/2005 6:02:47 AM by jbj16]
Gorilla,

Regarding the pic, ID of the can is 1.75 in. The barrel sleeve is closed and abutts on an OPS Type collar and is threaded forward 1/2x28TPI. Overall length of the can is about 280mm and weighs approx./ but not like a 1911 . Its heavy but it will suppress well and at the same time will tolerate maybe 3-30rd mag dumps. Im not humping it thru the boondocks like the military so weight is of little concern but durability and max. suppression is.

My concern about your 2 point concept is that it will expose the external barrel surface to the heat of the blast dischagre. Heat IN the barrel during firing and trapped heat IN the blast area could do damage I think to your barrel, short of re-heat treating the 4140 steel during firing. Any way that's why I designed my can with the requisite barrel sleeve to protect the exterior of the barrel from the Plasma during firing.
CS223
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Posted: 4/25/2005 9:32:58 AM
Gorilla,
Curious as to who's threading tool you are using, been looking for one and up until now, I've been using a 60 deg tool bit in a boring bar.

--C
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?" Clint Smith
Gorilla
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Posted: 4/25/2005 9:37:28 AM
Makes sense. I was considering a collet type arrangement for 2-point mounting, rather than turning down the bbl, and shielding the bbl exterior from hot gasses. Both of my Kuehl bbls are a very consistent 0.875" +/-0.001" OD and a collet arrangement for a two-point mount would be feasible.

But on the other hand I want to keep it simple. A truly simple can would be a straight 1/2 X 28 single-point mount, but when the can is as massive/heavy as this one, I am not confident that I could avoid a baffle-strike with a 1-pt mounting. I want to keep the tolerances on the baffle holes small and tight for best efficiency.

I'm going to redraw the rear end again, and look for another method.

Heat: I've done many back to back mag dumps with my Vector in .22LR, and my impression is that the heat really isn't much of an issue. Sure it'll warm up but NOTHING like a rifle round. I am confident that any steel (carbon or stainless) suppressor can handle FA .22LR all day long. SS is superior for both heat and corrosion resistance. I've seen heavily parkerized suppressor internals though and after mucho .22LR there was no evidence of corrosion, assuming the can is shot dry, no H2O or other water-based coolant added.

That's where I am, trying to balance simplicity with excellent function. What's cool about a homemade can on a F1 is the ability to repair/rebuild it, improve it, etc. Experimentation is appropriate. Along these lines, having the primary tube being well-built and solid, the same tube can have its internals replaced, going from straight/plain baffles, to K-baffles, etc. without running afoul the BATFE, so long as you don't have 100+ baffles kicking around the shop.
Gorilla
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Posted: 4/25/2005 9:46:05 AM
[Last Edit: 4/25/2005 9:48:35 AM by Gorilla]

Originally Posted By CS223:
Gorilla,
Curious as to who's threading tool you are using, been looking for one and up until now, I've been using a 60 deg tool bit in a boring bar.

--C



It's an ISCAR "miniature" internal threading tool. Those tiny inserts are good only to about 20TPI, anything coarser and the tooth doesn't have the depth. But they are super sharp and efficient, and cut very well. Shank is 5/8" and will fit an AXA holder.

I tried to link the PDF page which shows the tool, but it doesn't work. Go to MSCDirect and enter this stock number in the search box : 60874120

If you're a typical hobbyist, 5 inserts (3 tips per insert) will last for many years.
BookHound
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Posted: 4/25/2005 10:52:47 AM
I'm simply amazed at what some of you guys can do. I'm barely able to swing a hammer.


Very cool thread.
"TIM-MAH!"
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