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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 1/19/2002 6:43:43 PM EDT

I went to a local gun shop/range looking for cleaning supplies and noticed they had a used ar10a4. After looking at the weapon closely. I noticed it had my name on it....(in other words I had to have it) The price was about a grand and it had front sights and removeable carry handle. Also a 20rd mag.
After wiping the saliva off my mouth. I asked the counter help that seeing how it was already used could I shoot a box through it to check function. All seemed well until when I get through filling out the usual release form the guy comes back and says I can't test fire the weapon.
I assured him that I am not just joy-riding but really interested in the purchase of the weapon and already owned an ar15 so I was well versed in the function of the weapon. He says thats what he told the owner but it did no good. Disgusted I handed the weapon back and left.
It is not like I am a kid(37) or "rough"-looking. As a matter of fact, I had to go to court and testify on behalf of a family friend and was mistaken on 3 different occasions for being a lawyer. My wife got a kick out of it...... My only conclusion would have to be that the rifle was not of good quality and the owner was trying to hide that fact.
Was I out of line by asking to test-fire a used weapon at a range? The guy rents automatic rifles to shoot on his range so am I paranoid or is my common-sense slapping me around again?



Link Posted: 1/19/2002 6:53:50 PM EDT
Seems strange. Did he call the owner or was he in the shop at the time? I would have walked too.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 7:40:18 PM EDT
Gun Shop Ethics is like:

Military Intelligence....

Act naturally Extra money Rap music Advanced BASIC Found missing Religious tolerance Airline food Freezer burn Resident alien Almost exactly Genuine imitation Safe sex Alone together Good grief Same difference Black light Government organization Sanitary landfill British fashion Jumbo Shrimp Sense of Congress Business ethics Legally drunk Silent scream Butt head Living dead Small crowd California culture Marijuana initiative Soft rock Childproof Microsoft Works Software Documentation Christian Scientists Military intelligence Sweet sorrow Civil War More perfect Synthetic natural gas Clearly misunderstood New classic Taped live Computer jock "Now, then ..." Temporary tax increase Computer security Passive aggression Terribly pleased Definite maybe Peace force Tight slacks Democratic Leadership Plastic glasses Twelve-ounce pound cake Diet ice cream Political science Working vacation Exact estimate Pretty ugly


Link Posted: 1/19/2002 7:40:34 PM EDT

He wasn't on the phone that I could remember. I didn't ask to see the owner like I normally would have in that situation. It all just seemed questionable. I just left with the satisfaction that at least I learned never to buy a used weapon from that shop. I would also have to check a new one from them pretty hard also. My friends will hear about it and you know how fast word of mouth travels.
Was I out of line by asking to test fire for reliablilty? Has anyone else taking this approach before when buying a used weapon?



Link Posted: 1/19/2002 7:41:39 PM EDT
If its used there should not be a problem shooting it...I would have walked from it also. You would think the owner would want you to shoot it to see there is nothing wrong with it.

Should have asked him why...
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 7:59:31 PM EDT
I would have to agree with the other guys.

The gun store that I frequent (by my office) has higher prices that the one by my house.

I go there for the range. Having been burned in the past after buying new and used guns with problems from other stores. Now always shoot it first.

It is also nice when I buy online and there is a one day inspection.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 5:57:58 AM EDT
I hate to say it, but business is business. If the price was good and the gun in good shape, the gunshop will just sell it to someone else instead of you. It's not so much ethics as economics. While it was used, I'm sure they get their share of tire-kickers who would just love to run a few rounds out of someone else's AR-10, then hand it back and walk out. Or want to continue down the rack to try out every gun they have. While it may not have been the right approach to sell a gun to YOU, it really doesn't matter. Their business is to sell the gun period. There will be plenty of other people who will buy the gun.

I would not have had a problem letting you shoot it. I probably would have tried to find out if were just a tire kicker by making a counter propsal. I would have told you to pay for the gun, fill out the forms, and then shoot your rifle. If there's a problem with it, then we could take care of it right there. That offer pretty much separates the men from the boys as far as people who are serious about buying a gun and just kicking tires. It's called qualifying your customer. It's just that that extra step of actually purchasing the firearm makes the difference. Few tire kickers will fill out the forms and cough up a grand just to joy-ride.

Remember that most of the buying public is the same sort that will drink a whole case of soda they buy at Wal-Mart and take back the last can to get their money back saying, "I didn't like it." They'll buy a lawnmower or some other implement at Home Depot use it for one job then return it as not what they wanted.

The gunshop I frequent doesn't have a range. I just buy things there. If there's a problem they take care of it. I keep going back. It's pretty simple. Ask yourself if the gun was at a show, or a shop without a range, would you have bought it without being able to try it? Did you offer a version of the above proposal I made, i.e. I'll buy it but if it doesn't run I want to be able to bring it back? That may have changed their minds about it, and still protected you.

I don't think you were out of place asking to shoot it. It's just that few gunshops are really staffed by professionals that understand sales.

Ross
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 7:19:48 AM EDT
I'm a little confused.

Were you going to test-fire the rifle at a range away from the store ??
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:19:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matrix:
Gun Shop Ethics is like:

Military Intelligence....

Act naturally Extra money Rap music Advanced BASIC Found missing Religious tolerance Airline food Freezer burn Resident alien Almost exactly Genuine imitation Safe sex Alone together Good grief Same difference Black light Government organization Sanitary landfill British fashion Jumbo Shrimp Sense of Congress Business ethics Legally drunk Silent scream Butt head Living dead Small crowd California culture Marijuana initiative Soft rock Childproof Microsoft Works Software Documentation Christian Scientists Military intelligence Sweet sorrow Civil War More perfect Synthetic natural gas Clearly misunderstood New classic Taped live Computer jock "Now, then ..." Temporary tax increase Computer security Passive aggression Terribly pleased Definite maybe Peace force Tight slacks Democratic Leadership Plastic glasses Twelve-ounce pound cake Diet ice cream Political science Working vacation Exact estimate Pretty ugly






damn did you make all that up?
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 10:17:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackeye:

I had to go to court and testify on behalf of a family friend and was mistaken on 3 different occasions for being a lawyer.



That isn't very flattering. Maybe that's the reason you got dis'ed.:)

Link Posted: 1/20/2002 12:43:54 PM EDT
The gun shop I trade at (20 years now) gives a semi-warranty on used guns: they will make them work. Other than that, you're on your on. I have no porblem with this approach as they took care of me on a used 1911A1 in 9mm. On the other side of the counter, the guy doens't know what sort of ammo you'll use & if (not to say you'll do it) someone used a +P++++ reload & blew the thing up, then the shop is SOL. I would try to get (in writing if necessary) an agreement from the shop that the gun functions & they'll make it make it work if need be.
My .o2
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 1:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2002 1:18:37 PM EDT by Schnert]
Remember, a good gun deal is when two horse thieves think that each got the better of the other.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 1:43:24 PM EDT
I have only been to one gunshop that was also a range (not counting S&W, but they only have new guns). There was never a problem "testing" any gun there from the used rack. They charge a ammo and cleaning fee if you didn't buy it (they never had charged me). That place has since gone out of business, because the owner has passed away.

I guess the key is to build up a relationship with your local shops. I know when I walk into the 3 shops I do regular business with, they know my first name and know what I am looking for. Field stripping / cleaning for a complete inspection is never a problem.

I can imagine shops get jerked around so many times by tire-kickers, they have become numb to real buyers.

OSA
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 5:49:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OSA:
I have only been to one gunshop that was also a range (not counting S&W, but they only have new guns). There was never a problem "testing" any gun there from the used rack. They charge a ammo and cleaning fee if you didn't buy it (they never had charged me). That place has since gone out of business, because the owner has passed away.

I guess the key is to build up a relationship with your local shops. I know when I walk into the 3 shops I do regular business with, they know my first name and know what I am looking for. Field stripping / cleaning for a complete inspection is never a problem.

I can imagine shops get jerked around so many times by tire-kickers, they have become numb to real buyers.

OSA



Hey was that the shop in Monson?
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 6:06:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LE6920:


Hey was that the shop in Monson?



Yes it was. I think it has been closed about two years now. Fred and I both collected military small arms and Jeeps.........LOL

OSA
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 6:10:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2002 6:21:15 PM EDT by Ralph]
What is a ethical gun shop? I can count on one hand how many honest gun shops I've been in in the last 20yrs,Sadly most of these are out of business the shop I've been dealing with I thought at one time was a decent shop, but I've noticed his prices are now higher than anybody else around, powder usually $5.00 a LB higher ($20.00 a lb Vs $15.00 elesewhere) bullets $5-7.00 higher, and what really got to me was last week when he insulted my intelligence, and tryed to pass off a used set(25-30 yrs old) of RCBS 7.5 swiss dies as new,for $35.00, I bought a set of new Hornady dies form Graf& Sons for $28.80 delivered,I now go where I get what I want at a fair price,if they give me a good price, I'll be back if not ,see ya! I'm tired of being screwed, And they wonder why they go out of business! I'm all for helping the little guy out, But I'm not gonna let him stick it in and break it off either, I've spent about $4-5000 over the last 5-6yrs or so at this shop I'm talking about and he pays me back by treating me like I'm a dope,and trying to screw me on a used set of dies? F#$k him! I'll buy my reloading stuff mail-order.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 6:22:55 PM EDT
You should have asked for an explanation. I have a couple of good friends who are gunshop owners/managers; they try to accomodate their customers, but sometimes their hands are tied. You said that the gun was used? Many gunshops accept firearms on consignment. The guns are for sale in their store but do not belong to them and may or may not be marked as such. It would be highly unethical for a gunshop to let you shoot a gun they had on consignment without the permission of the owner.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 8:40:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OSA:

Originally Posted By LE6920:


Hey was that the shop in Monson?



Yes it was. I think it has been closed about two years now. Fred and I both collected military small arms and Jeeps.........LOL

OSA



Downrange I think it was? I have been gone a while so I never knew it closed. Have a lot of friends up there though that still are able to put up with the liberal BS.

Guess you can always go to SW, they eased their restrictions I hear. At first they were rediculous as to range rules. Take a class and test, yeah right?
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:09:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2002 10:19:01 PM EDT by Matrix]

Originally Posted By LE6920:

Originally Posted By Matrix:
Gun Shop Ethics is like:

Military Intelligence....

Act naturally Extra money Rap music Advanced BASIC Found missing Religious tolerance Airline food Freezer burn Resident alien Almost exactly Genuine imitation Safe sex Alone together Good grief Same difference Black light Government organization Sanitary landfill British fashion Jumbo Shrimp Sense of Congress Business ethics Legally drunk Silent scream Butt head Living dead Small crowd California culture Marijuana initiative Soft rock Childproof Microsoft Works Software Documentation Christian Scientists Military intelligence Sweet sorrow Civil War More perfect Synthetic natural gas Clearly misunderstood New classic Taped live Computer jock "Now, then ..." Temporary tax increase Computer security Passive aggression Terribly pleased Definite maybe Peace force Tight slacks Democratic Leadership Plastic glasses Twelve-ounce pound cake Diet ice cream Political science Working vacation Exact estimate Pretty ugly





damn did you make all that up?



Hell no...ran a search for Oxymorons & came up with a few!
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:25:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:
You should have asked for an explanation. I have a couple of good friends who are gunshop owners/managers; they try to accomodate their customers, but sometimes their hands are tied. You said that the gun was used? Many gunshops accept firearms on consignment. The guns are for sale in their store but do not belong to them and may or may not be marked as such. It would be highly unethical for a gunshop to let you shoot a gun they had on consignment without the permission of the owner.



Fwiw,that was my first thought, also.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:28:46 PM EDT
You all have it easy compared to me from what I've read in this thead. No way in hell is any gunshop I know gonna let you test fire a gun before buying it wether it is used or not. I can not even imagine the look on their faces if I even asked them if I could test fire a gun. Gun dealers in the Philadelphia area are real assholes. There is no such thing as customer service. They don't want to answer questions, all they want to know is if you want to buy it. One gunshop which is also a pistol range ,of which I used to be a member, even has a sign which says "If you take it apart, you bought it." The gunshops in the Philadelphia area act as if THEY are doing YOU a favor buy selling you a gun. They all piss me off.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 10:23:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:
You all have it easy compared to me from what I've read in this thead. No way in hell is any gunshop I know gonna let you test fire a gun before buying it wether it is used or not. I can not even imagine the look on their faces if I even asked them if I could test fire a gun. Gun dealers in the Philadelphia area are real assholes. There is no such thing as customer service. They don't want to answer questions, all they want to know is if you want to buy it. One gunshop which is also a pistol range ,of which I used to be a member, even has a sign which says "If you take it apart, you bought it." The gunshops in the Philadelphia area act as if THEY are doing YOU a favor buy selling you a gun. They all piss me off.



Some of the local shops where I live do allow you to take a used gun home to try. He doesn't do this for everyone & only for those whom he knows & trusts. It's not fair but life is that way...as I learned the hard way, it can get out of hand....but that's another story.



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